Borrowings by trust with 3rd party security

Quick question - can a trust borrow money, for instance, to buy shares, with the borrowings secured against property held in the personal name of one of the beneficiaries of the trust?
 
Quick question - can a trust borrow money, for instance, to buy shares, with the borrowings secured against property held in the personal name of one of the beneficiaries of the trust?

Why not just have the beneficiary borrow the money and on-lend it to the trust?
Alex
 
Mainly for asset protection purposes - if we followed that suggestion, then the beneficiary would have an asset (being the loan to the trust) which could potentially be called in by creditors.
 
Mainly for asset protection purposes - if we followed that suggestion, then the beneficiary would have an asset (being the loan to the trust) which could potentially be called in by creditors.

Yes, but if the trust borrows and the creditors call in THAT, if the loan is secured by the beneficiary's asset...... if I was the bank I would want some legal way to get the beneficiary's asset if something went pear shaped. Either way, the asset is fair game if the loan defaults.
Alex
 
If there's a default on the loan - I wouldn't bother trying to conjure up ways to protect the assets securing it - banks will get there hands on it somehow.

But, the asset protection comes into it where the beneficiary has a high risk job and doesn't want assets in their personal name.

If you're negatively geared and don't trust HDTs, so you accumulate assets in your personal name, then this seems to be one way to reduce the real value of those assets from a creditor's perspective.
 
If you're negatively geared and don't trust HDTs, so you accumulate assets in your personal name, then this seems to be one way to reduce the real value of those assets from a creditor's perspective.

Shouldn't you go the other way, then? Have the trust LEND money to the beneficiary secured by the asset. The individual continues to negatively gear, but part of the interest cost goes to the trust. So if the beneficiary has any issues, the trust calls in the loan and takes the asset, leaving the beneficiary with nothing.

If it's a genuine concern, sell the asset into the trust.
Alex
 
The whole idea isn't primarily to keep assets away from potential creditors - that would hopefully be a useful by product.

Here's a summary of the situation I'm thinking of:

1. You own properties in your own name - which are in you own name to take advantage of negative gearing benefits.

2. You want to own shares, but would prefer the shares to be held in a discretionary trust for various reasons, including that there will be no, or very minimal, negative gearing benefits available.

3. You want to fund all (or the vast majority) of share purchases with debt, but don't want to take out any margin loans (margin calls and higher interest rates when compared to borrowings secured against property).

4. You don't want to sell properties in your personal name because of tax considerations.

5. Given the above, I want the trust to borrow money to buy shares with the borrowing secured against the properties in my personal name.

As I said, a by product of this seems to be that the value of assets in my personal name, from a creditor's perspective, is diminished. BUT, as the above suggests, the main reason is to buy shares in a trust structure with cheap and lower risk borrowing.
 
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