Capitalising Costs

Wondering what peoples ideas are about "Capitalising Costs"?
It seems to me to be a bit like the "living out of Equity" philosophy but creates tax deductable debt rather than non.
This approch could make a large improvement on cashflow whilst still holding assets for capital growth.

I have considered selling a property to improve cashflow but if you've got equity then maybe this is a better approach.

Any thoughts?

MJK
 
I confess I capitalise costs and will continue to do so as long as I still have non-deductable debt. I use the freed up cash to reduce this non-deductable debt, not to buy new doodads.
 
Three "Hail Mary's" for you mdk92. ;)

I surprises me how little contribution this topic has achieved? :confused:

MJK
 
Hi,

I think it's a very good idea. Although with the possibility of slower times ahead then you would definately need a very big buffer account in place to carry you through.

-Regards

Dave
 
Hi MJK

In my experience most people are not aware that you can capitalise costs.

Equally, it often depends on the reason for finance, the great majority of borrowers are borrowing to buy their own home with no thought of 'future investment properties' so if they have the money they will use it rather than borrow more money to pay the costs.

Serviceability also comes into the equation: Many people run to the $1 surplus model and literally borrow to the last dollar, so capitalising costs isn't an option.

However, perhaps you are posing the question for investors with both money and serviceability and yet choose to not capitalise costs - well it comes down to people's own unique way of doing things.

Like knitting a jumper, structuring a loan has to reflect the personality of the borrower. I have a customer at the moment and her self-appointed 'mentor' is urging her to do things certain ways 'because of the tax advantages'.

The lady only pays 17 cents in the dollar, so how important is tax structuring for her? She is more concerned about overall monthly expense, so if she pays the costs out of savings she 'sees' a lower monthly instalment and is happy.

As I am not allowed to discuss the mechanics of off-set accounts it makes it difficult to explain that if she reserved the same amount of money and put it in a linked off-set account the end result (monthly payment) would be the same but she would still have her nest egg.

MJK, most people have trouble counting their change at the shop (assuming they pay cash for anything), let alone grinding through the financial details of a deal.

Some of the wealthiest people I have met have not had English as a first language but have been shrewd investors nonetheless. They couldn't care less about tax advantages or off-set accounts. To them, the only thing that matters is borrowing the least you need and paying the loan off as fast as possible, thereby releasing the rental income from the debt.


MJK if you are actually thinking of killing the goose which lays the Golden Eggs, perhaps you should sit down with a cup of tea, a packet of Tim Tams, a wad of paper and your calculator (or slide rule if you have one!).

Drawing on equity is a short term quick fix. The Day of Reckoning still comes around every month and instalments still need to be paid. You may find there are less painful ways of paying the loans you currently have rather than taking out new ones.

Good luck

Kristine
 
Kristine, but lets say you have a $1,000 maintenance bill for your IP, you also have a spare $1,000 sitting in a savings a/c, and lets say you still have a PPOR mortgage. My point is why pay that $1k IP bill with the money sitting in your savings a/c when instead you could put that spare $1k into your PPOR mortgage and borrow $1,000 (tax deductable) to pay the bill. The point is not to balloon debt, but to pay off your most expensive debt first.

Wouldn't the example above mean that capitalising costs is a good thing?
 
There is always somthing special about your replies Kristine. Well, I like them because they often contain good sound knowledge and sensible philosophy. My son, the accountant, has all the answers as to how I should invest but I like the one you mention......."Borrow the least, paying the loan off as fast as possible". You won't be able to author a book on this principle but it is the most effective through all economic situations.

Regards Plumtree
 
plumtree said:
..."Borrow the least, paying the loan off as fast as possible". You won't be able to author a book on this principle but it is the most effective through all economic situations.

Regards Plumtree

But not the most tax effective.
 
Hiya All

Its a common Strategy used where the clients tax adviser is comfortable, since some have pointed out that we would get cleaned out under Section 4A. I have always argued from a tax perspective its about maximising cashflow, not about tax evasion.

Its not about increasing your debt, indeed in the model the actual debt against the security doesnt change, rather the proportion of non-deductible to deductible changes over time.

As Kristine has said, its of greater benefit to someone on a higher marginal rate, and its only for those with spare equity and serviceability. The more IPs you have the more quickly you can change the overall nature of your debt burden.

Running simulations shows that its possible to save squillions.

Ta
Rolf
 
Whoa Kristine,

I wouldnt go out and get a new loan to cpitalise a cost, simply use the undrawn funds in an LOC. Say and expense came up at $1000. I then could capitalise this cost at 6.47%pa or $64.70 pa. I then could claim a deduction on the expense and the interest and get a rebate of say $4-500 in the first year.
Yes I've used $1000.00 of equity but hopefully the property has gone up by 10-25K that year.

Trust me my calculator works ok. Its a concept I'm wanting to discuss. :D

MJK
 
Hi MD

AND if you have PPOR debt you have just changed that $ 1000 to a deductible debt, since if you had not borrowed the $ you woud have paid it out of cashflow and thence sacrificed your mortgage


ta

rolf
 
Cup of Tea and Tim Tams needed (calculator optional)

Well, it seems to me that defining ‘capitalizing costs’ is important to this line of argument.

The example I used was primarily based on capitalizing costs of purchase, but of course it can apply to anything.

To use an example of $1,000 then further obscures the argument as $1,000 wouldn’t usually be capitalized but written off in the current tax year.

And is this about:

Writing off the cost eg maintenance or capital expense?

A plumbing repair bill is quite different to installing a new vanity basin.

One is maintenance, one is capital expense which is added to the value of the property and then depreciated over more than one tax year.


The other issue is the tax benefit to the individual paying the bill: Theory and practice can be at odd here as there are so many variables to consider. Assuming that the person’s tax rate was reasonable then sure use borrowed funds to pay the bill. This, of course, can be any form of credit, including the ubiquitous credit card or a loan from Uncle Henry.

However, unless the credit facility was already established it would be hard to rationalize arranging a new mortgage facility for anything less than, say, $5,000 as the establishment costs would result in a disproportionate AAPR (Average Annualized Percentage Rate).

And tax refunds are no excuse for a course of action. At best, this will result in a 47% rebate on costs.

But whichever way the payment is made, ‘tax deductibility’ relates more to the nature of the expense / purchase and not to the way in which payment was made.

So is the expense incurred in the earning of income / maintenance of improvement of an income producing asset / capitalized to the value of an asset which is intended to produce income in te future / intended to be sold for a profit in the future?

Yes?

How was this item paid for? From private funds – then the investment ‘owes’ those funds back to the individual.

From loan funds? Then the loan may be increased by the amount expended and interest charged on those funds may be an allowable taxation expense.

Whether those loan funds are usually for private or domestic use doesn’t matter: What those funds are used for, does.


An extra $1,000 drawn from your home loan to pay for a new hot water heater at your investment property is treated ‘in the books’ no differently than if you paid cash or via your credit card or even used a trade account or deducted the expense from rental income. It is what it is, the method of payment must be clear but that’s it. No magic, no convoluted explanations required.

Over the course of a year I, as an active property investor, pay the bills with whatever funds are to hand. How I post those expenses to the books must be clear and easy to audit. If I ‘hand the expense’ back to a loan account it is up to me to show quite clearly how that happened, even if at first I paid through my personal cheque account or the property manager paid the account from rent collected.

So getting back to the capitalization of expense, sure that’s an OK tactic if the rest of your situation warrants it. But as with everything else in life and investing the whole situation must be considered.

Considering that ‘expense’ can be written off in the usual way and interest just adds to the expense it still detracts from the true cash flow.

The Great God Of Saving Tax Even If It Costs Me Money is a god with feet of clay, and a shrine at which I’ve never bothered worshipping. I appreciate there is a whole industry devoted to ‘saving tax’ but it always seems like reverse logic to me. Why deliberately spend $1 to only get a % of that back? If the $1 needs to be spent, then spend it, in the cheapest way possible and if there are ‘tax benefits’ that’s fine but that’s in the bonus category, not the prime motive or consideration.

However if we didn’t discuss these questions at great length we would never hear anyone else’s point of view, so thanks for raising the subject MJK.

But can I ask regarding your example

…..I wouldnt go out and get a new loan to cpitalise a cost, simply use the undrawn funds in an LOC. Say and expense came up at $1000. I then could capitalise this cost at 6.47%pa or $64.70 pa. I then could claim a deduction on the expense and the interest and get a rebate of say $4-500 in the first year.

If you write the expense off in one year and your top marginal rate is 47% then, yes, you would be eligible to receive a tax refund of $470 on the item.

If you had the expense sitting at 6.5% interest for a full year, sure, add another $32.5 to your tax refund, a total of $500.55.

But there is no denying that your expense still cost you $564.45 and you have now used all your tax concession on that item.

To the best of my knowledge that item has now been fully tax expended and cannot be capitalised to the investment ie added to the capital base and further depreciated or claimed against any future profit on sale.

However, if you are asking ‘Does the debt for the item remain on the credit facility and therefore in future tax years can the interest on the whole debt, including this new amount, be claimed against income…?’

Well that would be the general practice but now we are treading the path of tax opinion so just let me qualify my reply by saying ‘as I understand it, what was the reason for the debt? To pay investment expense” then that is a legitimate reason for incurring the debt in the first place and until the amount is repaid is remains legitimate debt for tax purposes’, or words to that effect.



Whether or not your property has improved in value with or without your further expenditure is a moot point and is a separate and subjective issue with which we may console ourselves as we scrounge around looking for that elusive $1,000 to pay the plumber in the first place.



PS I have certainly in time past paid for things from funds secured against the PPOR ie ‘domestic borrowings’. I have always claimed the appropriate amount of interest incurred in using these loan funds, and produce spreadsheets extrapolating the specific amounts of capital and interest in a pro-rata manner.

Eg if the domestic debt was, say, $40,000 (I wish) and I drew a further $4,000 to pay for installation of air conditioning at an investment property, then I would show that for x number of days in the tax year interest expense was pro-rated at 90.9% for domestic purposes and 9.09% was for investment purposes, and capital repayments to that loan would be apportioned in the same manner.

Keeping good records is the key.

Cheers

Kristine
 
Correct Kristine. :rolleyes: If the expense is of a capital nature then it doesn't work. What would work is maintenance, rates , insurance.
What I find interesting is many (not all) seem to appreciate the "Navra style living out if equity" concept that creates nondeductable debt.
What I am toying with is the idea that one could improve their lifestyle/cashflow (ala live slightly better of equity ) but creating tax deductabe debt at a much slower rate than percieved capital growth.

With regards to the comment "tax deductions are no excuse for action". The sort of costs I'm talking about are going to happen. The action is inevitable. For that matter so is the deduction. I'm talking about a concept.

Think about it.

MJK
 
On reflection,perhaps the term Capitalising costs is misleading given I am talking about non capital nature costs. Perhaps we should say simply "paying for regular expenses with borrowed funds" or something like that. :eek:

MJK :D
 
MJK said:
What I find interesting is many (not all) seem to appreciate the "Navra style living out if equity" concept that creates nondeductable debt.
MJK

I believe the 'Navra Style living out of equity' creates DEDUCTABLE debt - that is one of the ideas behind it along with creating extra serviceability.

Sombody correct me if I am wrong about the 'Navra Cashbond' concept.

cheers
 
Grey area WillG.
Personally I'm not satisfied with the explainations given to support tax deductability. Special rulings from the ATO etc.. For me the deductability gets down to the use of the loan.
I like to look at the Navra idea assuming non deductability if used for living and deductability if use to invest further. Still has merit.

Others may differ, Grey area.

MJK
 
MJK said:
On reflection,perhaps the term Capitalising costs is misleading given I am talking about non capital nature costs. Perhaps we should say simply "paying for regular expenses with borrowed funds" or something like that. :eek:

MJK :D

MJK,

Its a good solid strategy.. anyone with non-deductible debt and an available LOC would be remiss in not adopting this approach.
 
MJK said:
For me the deductability gets down to the use of the loan.
I like to look at the Navra idea assuming non deductability if used for living and deductability if use to invest further.

MJK

Hi MJK,

The easiest solution with the Cashbond; is to use the proceeds to purchase income producing assets, like SHARES for example (clearly deductible) and use the income from the shares to pay down your non-deductible debt.

Regards,

Steve ;)
 
duncan_m said:
MJK,

Its a good solid strategy.. anyone with non-deductible debt and an available LOC would be remiss in not adopting this approach.

Agreed again Duncan, this is, in my opinion, a sound strategy, taking into account a couple of caveats mentioned earlier i.e. all monies attributed to income producing assets, servicability of the growing debt etc. Servicibility shouldn't really be an issue as that was factored in when the LOC was established.

ab
 
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