career/life advice

[sl153]

Hi guys - first post and im already asking for help lol! I promise I will contribute something in the future when the need arises. But when I came across the forum, i thought I would gain the opinion of some like minded and not so like minded individuals who I have no personal connection with (yet)

So currently, my situation is Im a 26 (27 mid march) single male living at home with very few living expenses. I've been catching the same old tin can to work every morning for the past 2 years and 10 months doing the same telesales job and I am completely over it!

Background info - I took the job initially to earn a "quick buck" to ultimately build a small portfolio of 10 positive cashflow properties so I will have a very basic income for me to survive on before I take my "risk" in a business, property venture, becoming a rockstar etc. So far I have been grossing 95 - 100K per annum and have managed to buy only 2 properties in that time (yes i know im way off lol)

Properties and financials - the 2 properties I have are worth in the region of 880k combined of which i own 20% of. I have 100k in cash sitting in an offset and currently I am slightly negatively geared, however, I am in the midst of a reno project on property no.2 which should bring my combined cashflow to positive by about $150 a week after holding costs

Dilemna - Im over my job. If I was an emotionless robot I would probably have made it by now, or would have the mental strength to achieve my initial goal, but a few hundred dials/3 - 4 hours pitching something I have absolutely no interest about every day for almost 3 years will do anyones head in! That said, the job is quite easy for me and although Im tied to my desk between 9 - 5, I have the freedom to conduct "other business" with the internet, phone etc - basically a cruisey environment. If I were to leave, I will be leaving a pretty "easy" 100k a year and I will definetly not do another 9 - 5 I dont care about because I know in another 3 years time, I would be back where i am now but with less money than what i would have if i stayed...

My ultimate goal is to be a full time residential developer. I have been toying with the idea of taking a sacrifice and get the relevant credentials/start from the bottom at a construction/development company (not REA) and learn as I work, however, of all the successful developers ive spoken to, the way is really to "tough it out sweeping streets" and develop your own house, townhouse, villa, apartment etc and work your way up which i dont feel i am anywhere near a capacity to do so even on a small scale (aside from renos etc)

On the other hand I feel I am quite entreprenuerial, good at sales and have always wanted to start my own business importing/exporting goods from china. I have done a great deal of research on this and am at a stage where its pretty much a matter of travelling to china, buy a specific stock from suppliers ive found, and sell online/ebay/wholesale. (Yes it will not be nearly as straightforward as this and I do recognise the risk involved)

There is also ofcrouse an impending need (or at least my girlfriends need ) to get married, buy a place, live together etc etc which will significantly impact my career goals as mentioned above

What would you do if you were in my shoes?

(reading over that i sound like a typical gen y-want-everything-today-and-dont-want-to-work-for-it-snob lol, but hey, i guess this IS an investment forum where most people want to make as much money in the least amount of time possible!)

Thanks very much in advance - your advice is hugely appreciated!

 

[weg]

Welcome.

Even thought that was a long post, I take it most was an intro, and your biggest problem is your job.

So my advice is find something you enjoy, or at the very least don't dislike intensely. Retirement is obviously not an option right now.

 

[Aaron_C]

Hi sl153,

I was in the same situation as you. We don't know your financial situation but I understand the complications, especially with a girlfriend in tow!

If you are good in sales, then you can pretty much do anything. Sales is the core of any business and the ability to promote and pitch your services/products to people. If you have enough money/savings/equity/income to quit your job and start your own business, then I think it is a good idea to do so. You can always find excuses not to do it...but that is why most people are employees for their entire life.

If you don't, you'll find yourself 5 years down the track, now 32, possibly with a child or two, still with the same problem of being unable to leave because of these additional commitments and the security of income that your job (which you hate) brings. It's not easy to pull the plug but there is no feeling like going out on your own with a plan. I did and do not regret it. Best thing that ever happened to me and I've learned so much more than when I was working 9-5 in an office with people with no vision nor entrepreneurial spirit.

 

[Graemsay]

It sounds like you're burnt out with work. I've been feeling a bit like this myself for a while recently. If you want to continue in that line then I'd suggest either taking a break, or finding a new employer.

You don't sound as though you want to do that though.

I'd agree with Aaron that you're young, don't have high living costs (still at home), and that these things can change very quickly. (Ask my brother about children turning up unexpectedly. ) So if you've got an urge to try something then give it a go.

If you want to try property development, then what do you feel that you're lacking?

I've found that the best way to learn something is to do it, and if you could afford to build a house then you'd get an education in doing that. It might be very expensive.

Again, importing goods from China would involve a learning curve. But if you've got the contacts then give it a shot.

I think that what you need to do is figure out what you want to do, what you can do, how you could add value, and (if possible) what your USP is.

 

[Andrew_A]

With those cold calling skills then real estate sales is a natural suggestion, depending on how much risk/reward you are looking for you might adjust the salary/commission split with the employer.

 

[Propertunity]

If you want to be ultra-conservative, and you've stated that you have "the freedom to conduct "other business" with the internet, phone etc", why not keep the boring position that you have for a while longer, but use this freedom to work on your import business? That way if it take off or takes over, you can quit your job and do that.

Ultimately though, you have to take some kind of risk to get out of the rut - or you'll be trapped and bored.

 

[sl153]

thank you all for your responses so far...

aaron c, glad to know there are people who have been in my shoes, taken the risk, and have done well! (I'm getting excited just reading about your upcoming development!) My fear has always been that 32 yr old scenario you pointed out!


At the moment I am siding with starting my own business but I am intending to do what propertunity suggested - that is stay put until I am absolutely ready to start the next thing. I have a trip organised to China in April for the canton trade fair and several factories I plan to visit etc. I do need to push myself though as I am completely in my comfort zone in this job and it drives me crazy!


Graemsay - Im lacking funds. Simple as that. Hard enough to finance a site let alone a construction loan! Need more cash, particular in the current environment!


Really not looking to be an employee again at the moment, let alone REA....worst case is Ill always have a 100k pa sales job to fall back on...


Thanks again everyone for your input so far.

 

[Aaron_C]

thank you all for your responses so far...

aaron c, glad to know there are people who have been in my shoes, taken the risk, and have done well! (I'm getting excited just reading about your upcoming development!) My fear has always been that 32 yr old scenario you pointed out!

Which is why I've said you need to get out of the rut. You will regret it if you don't have a go - you only live once and if you are a true entrepreneur you will do well eventually. Just never give up.

 

[Melbournian]

Properties and financials - the 2 properties I have are worth in the region of 880k combined of which i own 20% of. I have 100k in cash sitting in an offset and currently I am slightly negatively geared, however, I am in the midst of a reno project on property no.2 which should bring my combined cashflow to positive by about $150 a week after holding costs

Dilemna - Im over my job. If I was an emotionless robot I would probably have made it by now, or would have the mental strength to achieve my initial goal, but a few hundred dials/3 - 4 hours pitching something I have absolutely no interest about every day for almost 3 years will do anyones head in! That said, the job is quite easy for me and although Im tied to my desk between 9 - 5, I have the freedom to conduct "other business" with the internet, phone etc - basically a cruisey environment. If I were to leave, I will be leaving a pretty "easy" 100k a year and I will definetly not do another 9 - 5 I dont care about because I know in another 3 years time, I would be back where i am now but with less money than what i would have if i stayed...

My ultimate goal is to be a full time residential developer. I have been toying with the idea of taking a sacrifice and get the relevant credentials/start from the bottom at a construction/development company (not REA) and learn as I work, however, of all the successful developers ive spoken to, the way is really to "tough it out sweeping streets" and develop your own house, townhouse, villa, apartment etc and work your way up which i dont feel i am anywhere near a capacity to do so even on a small scale (aside from renos etc)

On the other hand I feel I am quite entreprenuerial, good at sales and have always wanted to start my own business importing/exporting goods from china. I have done a great deal of research on this and am at a stage where its pretty much a matter of travelling to china, buy a specific stock from suppliers ive found, and sell online/ebay/wholesale. (Yes it will not be nearly as straightforward as this and I do recognise the risk involved)

There is also ofcrouse an impending need (or at least my girlfriends need ) to get married, buy a place, live together etc etc which will significantly impact my career goals as mentioned above

personally - i relate to you but with only 100K in savings - what do you hope to achieve with ur business? Strategy wise of importing from china. there are many many different people stocking up products on retail to sell and you need clients, connection to make it happen. Unless your item is one very unique item i would be cautious about it. I personally know of people who has 2 shipping containers of impoted goods stocked up in a warehouse which is only half sold after 1.5 years. Money tied up and the opportunity costs

there are many ways to make money and everything is a calculated risk based on your personal circumstances (financial and personal background)
i would suggest you think of a strategy first before making your move

 

[Deltaberry]

With minimal living expenses it's not hard to quit your job.

That said you'll have to do something productive with your time because with only $150/week net cashflow coming in, you won't be able to live off it. If you don't achieve anything for a few years after you quit, you've basically wasted the time and you might find yourself back at the grind making up lost time. The risk in this alternative path is you could be 40, look back, and have nothing.

Life is all about a balanced approach. I'm in a similar position to you (am 26 turning 27 in October) in a 9-5 job (work til 6 on a bad day) that is easy (2 hour lunches) and has relatively good pay ($250k+) that allows me to do my own hands-off small business, and I've been contemplating quitting because I know there are many other things I could do out there and, while I do like some aspects of my industry, I don't like working for people.

The difference in my situation though is my net cashflows from properties have probably reached a point where I am quite comfortable to not have to worry about most things in life (ie sufficient to retire) and have sufficient equity where I could take several shots at various ventures and not worry about them because of the cashflows coming in. Perhaps my position was more similar to yours 2-3 years ago (ie with a lot less passive cashflow, with a lot less savings, ie say $100k) and at that point the risk-averse side told me to stick it out for a few more years and see how things go. So sometimes while we're all eager to get out, there also needs to be a sense of pragmatism about it.

That said there's also a bit of pragmatism in that you need to ask yourself to achieve, for example, $150k net cashflow from properties, how much longer would you really have to be in your job for? If it's too long, then perhaps the better thing to do is probably to leave. But don't kid yourself that it's not a path wraught with high risks, which I decided not to take up at 22 or 23 years old and instead chose to get a stable cashflow well in excess of an average family coming in first and get some savings going.

Although I'm more or less there, but because the job's so easy I've been milking it for a bit more, although it does make one less motivated because I'm not striving for anything for the bulk of my day. Perhaps it's time to move on too. Then there's the inheritance upside of course, but I don't like relying on family money because the moment I take a cent from there, my father will gloat all day no matter what I achieve in the future.

 

[sl153]

With minimal living expenses it's not hard to quit your job.

That said you'll have to do something productive with your time because with only $150/week net cashflow coming in, you won't be able to live off it. If you don't achieve anything for a few years after you quit, you've basically wasted the time and you might find yourself back at the grind making up lost time. The risk in this alternative path is you could be 40, look back, and have nothing.

Life is all about a balanced approach. I'm in a similar position to you (am 26 turning 27 in October) in a 9-5 job (work til 6 on a bad day) that is easy (2 hour lunches) and has relatively good pay ($250k+) that allows me to do my own hands-off small business, and I've been contemplating quitting because I know there are many other things I could do out there and, while I do like some aspects of my industry, I don't like working for people.

The difference in my situation though is my net cashflows from properties have probably reached a point where I am quite comfortable to not have to worry about most things in life (ie sufficient to retire) and have sufficient equity where I could take several shots at various ventures and not worry about them because of the cashflows coming in. Perhaps my position was more similar to yours 2-3 years ago (ie with a lot less passive cashflow, with a lot less savings, ie say $100k) and at that point the risk-averse side told me to stick it out for a few more years and see how things go. So sometimes while we're all eager to get out, there also needs to be a sense of pragmatism about it.

That said there's also a bit of pragmatism in that you need to ask yourself to achieve, for example, $150k net cashflow from properties, how much longer would you really have to be in your job for? If it's too long, then perhaps the better thing to do is probably to leave. But don't kid yourself that it's not a path wraught with high risks, which I decided not to take up at 22 or 23 years old and instead chose to get a stable cashflow well in excess of an average family coming in first and get some savings going.

Although I'm more or less there, but because the job's so easy I've been milking it for a bit more, although it does make one less motivated because I'm not striving for anything for the bulk of my day. Perhaps it's time to move on too. Then there's the inheritance upside of course, but I don't like relying on family money because the moment I take a cent from there, my father will gloat all day no matter what I achieve in the future.

wow, what kind of 9 - 5 work are you in that pays you $250k + a year at 26?

 

[streetie]

wow, what kind of 9 - 5 work are you in that pays you $250k + a year at 26?

thats what i was thinking.

even if i was bored in that job, i would be sticking it out and milking it for all i can, no need to have ur own business if u can pull in that kind of money on wages

 

[weg]

I personally know of people who has 2 shipping containers of impoted goods stocked up in a warehouse which is only half sold after 1.5 years. Money tied up and the opportunity costs

there are many ways to make money and everything is a calculated risk based on your personal circumstances (financial and personal background)
i would suggest you think of a strategy first before making your move

These items sit in auction rooms as well. From what I've seen, they're just as slow as some retail to move, even after undercutting (could just be Adelaide however, where a lot has slowed).

It can be done however. A friends father is half owner of one of Adelaides 'cheapy' Chinese import stores, and he's going great guns. I think his secret is 'decent' cheap product, at rock bottom prices in retail (Haggle co, btw). He has lots of stores, and overheads, and obviously needs things moving.

I actually went to one of their stores in a big shopping precinct a couple of Sundays ago and their tills were ringing away, while other furniture places I walked through had between 0 and 3 customers looking. Big difference.

Either way, there's a glut and the consumer now expects a discount, or they go elsewhere to get it.

If you do go this way, you need something unique to sell that's not so easy for everyone else to jump on the band wagon and import as well.

Btw, keep away from mattresses and outdoor furniture .

 

[The Y-man]

wow, what kind of 9 - 5 work are you in that pays you $250k + a year at 26?

That's 9am to 5am

The Y-man

 

[Deltaberry]

That's 9am to 5am

The Y-man

Haha you wish.

Here's a flavour of some 9am-5pm jobs that are $250k+.

http://www.smh.com.au/business/jail...tdown-in-a-plastic--world-20101202-18i92.html

Though I don't plan to end up on frontlines for same reasons like Mr. Hartman. If you read the SMH article, you'll see why $250k+ at 26 is possible and not that big a thing.

I think Y-Man was referring to this when he said 5am. I don't do things like that luckily, though I've been there and done that in 2008.

http://www.mergersandinquisitions.com/investment-banking-analyst-life-worst-day/

Should add, I could probably be making more if I stuck in the 5am job. But I figured I'd lose 5 years off my lifespan if I kept doing it.

 

[Deltaberry]

thats what i was thinking.

even if i was bored in that job, i would be sticking it out and milking it for all i can, no need to have ur own business if u can pull in that kind of money on wages

Well my idea of business is ideally one that makes the same money with minimal effort, or one with similar effort but makes a lot more.

Or the third choice. Which is to live off just the passive income component and do some low-cost ventures that could afford to fail.

 

[sl153]

Haha you wish.

Here's a flavour of some 9am-5pm jobs that are $250k+.

http://www.smh.com.au/business/jail...tdown-in-a-plastic--world-20101202-18i92.html

Though I don't plan to end up on frontlines for same reasons like Mr. Hartman. If you read the SMH article, you'll see why $250k+ at 26 is possible and not that big a thing.

I think Y-Man was referring to this when he said 5am. I don't do things like that luckily, though I've been there and done that in 2008.

http://www.mergersandinquisitions.com/investment-banking-analyst-life-worst-day/

Should add, I could probably be making more if I stuck in the 5am job. But I figured I'd lose 5 years off my lifespan if I kept doing it.

You must've done extremely well in your analyst days!

 

[Graemsay]

My father was given a piece of advice by a relative when he was young, which was the hardest boss you'll ever work for is yourself. So I'm not sure if I agree with Deltaberry's idea of a venture that requires minimal input.

Incidentally, I met said relative after my father had been working for himself for ten or fifteen years, and my father told him that he was right!

Incidentally the relative at the time was farming near Aberdeen, and his land included the Blasted Heath from Macbeth.

I'd suggest that anyone who is making several hundred thousand dollars a year in their mid-twenties is likely to be in the following:

• Financial services (as Deltaberry suggested).
• Sports or media star.
• A successful entrepreneur.
• Or possibly in the mining sector.

There are professions that will pay that, but they tend to take an awful lot of training to reach that level. I think that it's eight to ten years to qualify as a doctor, for example. It's less for a lawyer, but even that is two or three years study post university.

Being London based, I think that working in the City as a way to become wealthy lacks imagination. There are relatively few people making more than (say) a million a year - a couple of thousand tops in London - if you want to really chase the big bucks then you probably need to start up your own venture.

Just don't pay too much attention to the failure rates.

 

[pinkboy]

I can relate to what Graemsay says in his post: 'The hardest boss you will work for is yourself'. I relate being self employed to working for 'commission'. Basically you get the very thin cream spread in the middle. But if you work really hard, you get a nice layer of cream in the centre, and if you're really working hard with a little luck, there might be some icing on the cake at the top! I have cake on my mind....go figure!

I started my own business at 23, with no qualifications, barely 18months working in the industry, no contacts and pretty much no sales skill. What I did have was good products, good gear and a drive to provide very high quality applications (which basically sell themself), and a good team around me who guided me through! The rest I just winged it.

Im pretty sure I wont work for someone else for a very long time. I have (some) freedom to do what I like, though I still work hard (recent events have left me a little worse for wear, but Im on the mend), I have a great team of blokes who work hard when they have to, and I have some nice contracts firmly in place and growing as our staff numbers increase, so does the demand for our business, as the labour component is basically what halts the growth. The jobs we do, dont lend themselves to the fainthearted (the past 3 weeks has seen my team and myself jackhammer for 11 straight shifts around the clock, then blast and paint a tank with extra emergent work thrown in), so casual staff turnover is high until I can snag a good egg who wants to work hard and play hard!

Risk vs Reward. Do you want to make your own destiny, or make someone else make their destiny?

pinkboy

 

[Fudge]

If you want to be ultra-conservative, and you've stated that you have "the freedom to conduct "other business" with the internet, phone etc", why not keep the boring position that you have for a while longer, but use this freedom to work on your import business? That way if it take off or takes over, you can quit your job and do that.

Ultimately though, you have to take some kind of risk to get out of the rut - or you'll be trapped and bored.

Spot on Prop.

Good advice.

This way, you have an umbrella (or safety net) under you with your fixed income, while you can look into other ventures.

As Prop says though, you will need to take the big step one day though.

F