Certain Wealth Group

[CSG]

I have been attending a few free seminars in newcastle. One of them was by Peter Ward from www.certain-wealth.com

I have spoken to Peter personally and was impressed with his unfront honesty, knowledge and the services that certain wealth provide. I'm wondering if anyone else here has used their services. If you have i would be interested in hearing what your experience was like.

Thanks

 

[Rolf Latham]

Hiya

No replies so far

Maybe im just a negative soul.............

Certain Wealth implies there are no risks.................I think thats not quite true. All investing carries risk, as does not investing.

Wherever recent results are still " under construction" you might want to ask for some strong referrals


ta

rolf

 

[Rolf Schaefer]

I always tell my clients 'follow the trail of the money'.

They say they don't charge any fees! Who pays them? How do they survive in business?

Just ask the questions. I am not bagging Certain Wealth Group here, but one needs to understand their renumeration model to understand their recommendations.

Do your due diligence.

 

[Peter Parker]

good for head, stomach but maybe not wallet

I went to one of their presentations here in Melbourne.

It was good, very good in fact. They know their stuff and came across well. They have a specific philosophy that is explained well in John Fitzgerald's book 7 Steps to Wealth. In plain talk they recommend buying and holding of new houses (not units) in outer suburbs. Their money comes from builders of new homes on new estates, which is why it's only new houses they offer.

The sandwiches were nice. And it helped that there were only 6 attendees of the seminar as one could inconspicuously wolf down half a plateful or more.

With that important detail out of the way, would I recommend that people do business with them?

I'd be wary for two reasons:

1. The company name itself implies a guarantee that only a shonk can give. There is no such thing as 'Certain wealth' in investment; a high probability of a better than cash return is about the most that can be promised. A company that uses a name that is alluring yet perpetuates an untruthful impossibility doesn't exactly inspire confidence.

2. Substantive investment reasons. Their typical investment is a new $300k house on the urban fringe with a 35% land value component. Building depreciation (and that they can get commissions from builders) is the reason they go for new.

They, like John Fitzgerald, promote a 35% land component is promoted as being sufficient for capital growth, yet as this thread demonstrates
http://www.somersoft.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29595 much more is easy to get and probably better long-term.

Every investment promoter has a plank in their eyes that stops them seeing clearly and talking straight. In the case of Certain Wealth Group, it's the willingness to accept the mediocrity of that 35% land value component when double is easily available in adjacent areas. Planks used by other promoters involve rental guarantees, tax savings, off-the-plan, limited rental markets, etc, and sometimes two more more may be used.

It is the investor's job to identify this plank (no one else will) and reassess whether the investment is still acceptable. But if it is and you are willing to give up some control, then Certain Wealth Group (if you can live with the horrid name) might be worth considering.

Peter

 

[geoffw]

ITheir typical investment is a new $300k house on the urban fringe with a 35% land value component.

You've raised some good points Peter.

To which I would add- that land on the urban fringe is in plentiful supply, and much less likely to grow (or at least not grow as strongly) until such time as the supply in the area diminishes.

 

[The Y-man]

The sandwiches were nice. And it helped that there were only 6 attendees of the seminar as one could inconspicuously wolf down half a plateful or more.

Peter

Damn! Missed out......

Cheers,

The Y-man

 

[Peter_Tersteeg]

I've also attended some of their 'seminars'. Generally I found them well thought out and the sandwiches were quite good

Their business model appears to be purchasing properties for clients with capital growth in mind. They only purchase new or off the plan properties and take a commission from the developer.

My opinion is that they are one of the better promoters of this type of business model. They have a few years of success behind them as they heavily invested in the Perth market at the right time and are now moving out of there.

They also try to educate their clients in property investment. I would suggest that most people are in need of this type of education, but an experienced investor probably knows more than some of their consultants - a few of them impressed me, a few didn't.

I also think that this business model has a few blind spots as it focuses on only new properties in affluent areas. This may be an excellent strategy for some, but for others there may be a more appropriate alternative strategy.

I guess I'm saying that they're a reasonably good bunch, certainly better than many of the 'Wealth Creation' groups out there. It is up to you however to determine if their strategies and business models are the most appropriate for your situation. As always it's you who is ultimately responsible.

BTW: These opinions come from attending a few of their introduction seminars and speaking at length with their principal. I haven't experienced their detailed analysis process or dealt in detail with most of their consultants.

 

[kissfan]

Sounds like I've got to get to one of their seminars for the sandwiches alone .

Regards
Marty

 

[Peter Parker]

I also think that this business model has a few blind spots as it focuses on only new properties in affluent areas. This may be an excellent strategy for some, but for others there may be a more appropriate alternative strategy.

PTBear, I'm curious about the comment about affluent areas, given their thrust is very much on affordability which implies different criteria. If their total package is approximately $300k and the land content is around 40% then this limits them to the cheapest blocks in new suburbs. If they go for dearer land (eg $200 - 250k blocks) then the number of investors they can sell to is much less (and they can sell fewer houses per investor).

Of course it's easy to make a new McMansion suburb look affluent, to get the loan all residents will have needed at least one full time income and probably almost two. So by definition almost any new suburb (no matter how small the blocks and cheaply built the houses) will have average incomes that look good relative to many established areas (especially in comparison with neighbouring older outer suburbs). Maybe this was how they defined 'affluent area'.

Peter

 

[sailor]

Apart from being impressed with the "sandwich" comments...I'm impressed with the thought and analysis that comes from participants on this forum. Consulting SS has become part of my DD...in that the opinions and comments always bring a fresh approach to any subject, and teach me more about thinking outside the square.

 

[Peter_Tersteeg]

PTBear, I'm curious about the comment about affluent areas, given their thrust is very much on affordability which implies different criteria. If their total package is approximately $300k and the land content is around 40% then this limits them to the cheapest blocks in new suburbs.

Peter the impression I got was they're looking at prices above the median. I recall they spent a great deal of the seminar promoting Sanctuary Lakes which is well above the median. I'll also admit to having my own perceptions introduce some bias here.

They did heavily promote land content which I strongly agree with, and I think the fundamentals of their investment techniques are solid, but my point is that their approach may not be the most suitable for everyone.

 

[BOO]

What they were providing in Perth was land and house packages in various suburbs, about 15 km from city.

I was emailed various plans with details on size of home and costings.

When I checked out the figures, I was surprised to find out that building costs via this group would cost more, about $25,000-30,000 for what I was able to build at the time therefore I was not interested. As far as CG goes, I also had some concerns about some of the areas that they were recommending.

To make matters worse I did not get sandwiches.

 

[kero]

i have attended a few merely just to educate myself... its good to know what's going on in the market & the Q & A is always interesting. however, i believe i haven;t base any investment decisions on any of these seminars.

and about the sandwiches.... are you guys sure you are not just plain hungry???