Charge for water service on granny flats?

[handyandy]

Hi All

Just wanting to know what people are being charged for water rates when the have a granny flat.

I have a granny flat and I have just noticed that the rate notice has the heading "dual occupancy".

I don't have seperate water-board meters instead I have my own internal meters to seperate the tenants water usage.

All up I am paying $1248 pa for water rates excluding water use.

This is in Sydney

Cheers

 

[Paul@PFI]

What does your occupany agreement with the occupants say ? You cant add to it later.

NSW Fair Trading has a occupany agreement that lists the minimum obligations. If yours isnt compliant they may be able to refuse. Your meter may be fine to apportion costs if that is agreed but if you charge a rate it may be non-compliant ?

Annexure 1 is the important part.

Read more : http://www.fairtrading.nsw.gov.au/f..._are_my_rights_as_a_boarding_house_resident?_

If your isnt registered you could find problems galore with Council and NCAT if a dispute arises. You may not "have" to register however.

 

[handyandy]

Thanks Paul I appreciate your comment but that is not the question I am asking.

As an aside, we have a substantial number of properties where we have sub meteres in place and the managing agent recharges the water based on this meter. To date we have not struck a problem.

I simply want to know what other LL see on their water rates for a granny flat situation.

If the case is that they are separately rated (and metered) then that is the answer.

Cheers

 

[RetireRich101]

Yes, there is a 'Account for Dual Occupancy' in my Sydney Water bills.
I challenged the one time, they advised it's based on number of kitchens there are in the dwelling that are evident of dual living. Sydney Water advised if I want pay for single occupancy rate, then I have to remove the kitchen and then their inspector to visit.

When I purchased the property it already had 2 kitchens but not legally the SEPP Granny Flat. It was either a dual living or rented out to a large family.
I was charged dual rates at the beginning.

I find it interesting how SW would find out and charge dual rates? The installation of 2nd flow meter for the granny flat does not require SW approval and should be transparent to them, unless the dwelling trigger some water usage threshold.....

 

[RetireRich101]

Also Andy when I first purchased the property, it didn't have any 2nd meter but was already charged dual rates..

Only recently I installed the 2nd flow meter when I applied SEPP to cut a big 5 Bed house into 3 Bed front house + attached 2 bed GF..

 

[skater]

Our ex-PPOR is two houses on one block. The water rates has the title "Account for dual occupancy". The charges are:

Fixed charges - GST free
-Water service $41.02
-Wastewater (sewerage) service $285.34



Those same charges on a single dwelling are:

-Water Service $31.33
-Wastewater (sewerage) service $142.67

Does that help?

 

[devank]

I simply a absorb the water bill even though there is a sub meter for the GF. Instead charge a little more rent. Few advantages,
1. Less calculations and trying to check all that.
2. I only pay 5.5% PM fees so I don't think they will be happy to read the meter for free.
3. Looks good on Bank's eyes from serviceability point of view. It may help a little in valuation too.
4. Major part of the cost is service charge anyway.

 

[handyandy]

Our ex-PPOR is two houses on one block. The water rates has the title "Account for dual occupancy". The charges are:

Fixed charges - GST free
-Water service $41.02
-Wastewater (sewerage) service $285.34


Does that help?

Hi Skater

Seems to be the same case. When my GF was unotherrised the water rates were as per a single house. As soon as I had it approved they must have advised the water folk and the bill changed even though nothing changed in number of bathrooms, toilets kitchens etc from what was installed in the house before I split it.

I did phone them at the time but as per Retirerich you couldn't convince them.

MA does the meter readings either personally in the case of the Cabramatta properties or phones the tenants for those properties away from the area.

Cheers

 

[RetireRich101]

I simply a absorb the water bill even though there is a sub meter for the GF. Instead charge a little more rent. Few advantages,
1. Less calculations and trying to check all that.
2. I only pay 5.5% PM fees so I don't think they will be happy to read the meter for free.
3. Looks good on Bank's eyes from serviceability point of view. It may help a little in valuation too.
4. Major part of the cost is service charge anyway.

If you're able to include the $10-$20/wk water usage in the rental that would be great and for higher rental for bank serviceability perspective.

However some prospective/new tenants aren't comparing like that, and prefer to pay for their exact usage.
My PM asks the Granny Flat tennant to send photo of the 2nd flow meter, and they will work this out.. My 5.5% is ok to do this.

the drawback is it cost $400-500 to install, plus you need to cerify the tap, toilet etc flow rate before you can pass water usage on.. this could take take long to recover

 

[Bantam Roosta]

the drawback is it cost $400-500 to install, plus you need to cerify the tap, toilet etc flow rate before you can pass water usage on.. this could take take long to recover

We currently have a single meter for a 3 unit block and are looking at installing individual meters so we can charge the tenants.

If we get 3 individual meters installed, does this mean we will each pay the annual water access fee? ($178, according to page 2 here) This is how I read it. That will make the payback period a fair bit longer. Rough guess, I suspect my tenant would use about $300-$350 pa, so it should still pay off within the first year, which is fine with me.

Regarding the certification of taps etc, according to the Fair Trading site, 'If you are unsure if your existing taps and showerheads meet the required standards you could carry out a simple bucket and stop watch test to see if, when fully turned on, the flow rate is less than 9 litres in a minute.' As I read this, there is no need to have anything certified (it also mentions there is no requirement to provide a report regarding the installation of any water efficiency devices). Do I understand this right?

BR

 

[Bantam Roosta]

Also, when can you introduce the charges? Does a new tenancy agreement have to be written up? Do the tenants require a minimum period of notice? Or can we just start sending them the bill after we get the new meters installed?

BR

 

[geoffw]

I asked my PM about a secondary meter. For a GF. I was informed that, in NSW, a tenant could only be billed for water where they were linked to a primary water meter.

 

[devank]

I asked my PM about a secondary meter. For a GF. I was informed that, in NSW, a tenant could only be billed for water where they were linked to a primary water meter.

Sydney Water bills only the primary meter but I think you can charge the tenant as long as they are individually metered.

 

[baby blue eyes]

They like to quote that Geoff if they have not done one before. The water flow meter to the GF gives a reading and they work it out from there. Luckily my agents are on top of it now, but when they employ someone new, the newbie starts quoting separate meters that on till I point them in the right direction and get them to look at the file and last water reading,

 

[blackenator]

I have actually close ties with the water board and can answer any questions you have in regards to charges and fees in sydney that is so ask away

 

[geoffw]

My agent now tells me that she doesn't recall that conversation. Information I have found indicates that a separate private meter is ok.

My apologies if I've misled.