Corby sentenced to 20 years.....
- Thread starter qaz
- Start date
Only one person will ever know what happened. Her name is Schapelle.
Because we don't know all the facts I doubt anyone here can really tell if she is guilty or not. The one thing I know is that I would not want to be in her shoes.
Not sure there is a big difference between a life sentence and 20 years.
Because we don't know all the facts I doubt anyone here can really tell if she is guilty or not. The one thing I know is that I would not want to be in her shoes.
Not sure there is a big difference between a life sentence and 20 years.
Geoff, Your question addresses my only problem. To me it proves that "white eyes" are "different" in Asia but if Aussies took a step back and thought about their predjuices they might conclude that we also consider "slant-eyes" to be lesser mortals here.geoffw said:
nb I have Xmas drinks with Chinese who call me a "white eye" and we are friends.
Thommo
Thommo
I don't belive that "white eyes" are an issue. I suspect it may be an issue as to the severity different cultures place on the crime.
Killing is obviously a serious offence. But it is a one off. It may be that drugs are regarded as more severe an offence because the effect is more ongoing.
I don't belive that "white eyes" are an issue. I suspect it may be an issue as to the severity different cultures place on the crime.
Killing is obviously a serious offence. But it is a one off. It may be that drugs are regarded as more severe an offence because the effect is more ongoing.
luckyone said:
Luckyone,
I don't hold an opinion on her guilt. I haven't had a chance to examine the evidence, which has been thoroughly clouded by the rumours going around.
If pressed I'd say that under our legal system her guilt could not be proven beyond reasonable doubt.
But that is irrelevant - one of the critical points that makes nations independent is that they are sovereign - free to have their own laws and enforce them within their own countries. This is a long standing agreement that is largely enforced globally (though often broken in smaller ways - and the 'liberal democracies' break it as often as others). Without this agreement the world would be a much wilder and scarier place.
So one thing to think about is would we want the Indonesians coming to Australia and overruling our judgements because they did not agree with our legal system?
Another is - do any of us know more of the facts of this case than the judges and courts involved? Do we seriously believe that just because we're also Australian or because we've seen it in the press that we know better than them?
That is a step on the path to imperialism - they are simply savages and it's our duty to civilise them/bring them religion/have them as slaves.
Cheers,
Aceyducey
http://www.smh.com.au/news/World/Th...er-will-save-me/2005/05/28/1117129933175.html
This is what I was worried about from the high media exposure.
It seems that the defence lawyers strategy is to influence the outcome of the trial through the pressure of Australian public opinion, that they have carefully fed selective information throughout the process.
The result? Two nations that could be partners are now more wary of each others.
What a shame
This is what I was worried about from the high media exposure.
It seems that the defence lawyers strategy is to influence the outcome of the trial through the pressure of Australian public opinion, that they have carefully fed selective information throughout the process.
The result? Two nations that could be partners are now more wary of each others.
What a shame
It's our right to criticise the Indonesian justice system to our hearts' content as a free people with the right of free speech.
We are accustomed to our justice system and regard it as usually more than fair and a defendant has to be shown to be guilty without any reasonable doubt remaining. And there are many causes for reasonable doubts in the Corby case.
We give our defendants the benefit of a reasonable doubt if there is one.
The Indonesian system does not. Why not ? I'll venture to say from my exoeriences in Bali that their public officials like to keep the power away from the general population, it saves officials losing face, it keeps the baksheesh flowing, and it maintains fear and control over the population. They call themselves a democracy, but haven't truly given up the power which officialdom enjoyed under the earlier despots like Sukharno. That power is profitable and addictive, and is seen today in many countries where life is cheap. I've lived under foreign power, seen it first hand, know the helpless feeling, the injustice, and give me Australian Democracy anytime.
Corby hasn't had justice yet. Hope she lasts long enough to get it.
As long as Indonesia has a banana republic justice system which mistreats Australians, Indonesia won't get my tourist dollar, aid dollar, military dollar, or any other support. Let 'em rot.
crest133
We are accustomed to our justice system and regard it as usually more than fair and a defendant has to be shown to be guilty without any reasonable doubt remaining. And there are many causes for reasonable doubts in the Corby case.
We give our defendants the benefit of a reasonable doubt if there is one.
The Indonesian system does not. Why not ? I'll venture to say from my exoeriences in Bali that their public officials like to keep the power away from the general population, it saves officials losing face, it keeps the baksheesh flowing, and it maintains fear and control over the population. They call themselves a democracy, but haven't truly given up the power which officialdom enjoyed under the earlier despots like Sukharno. That power is profitable and addictive, and is seen today in many countries where life is cheap. I've lived under foreign power, seen it first hand, know the helpless feeling, the injustice, and give me Australian Democracy anytime.
Corby hasn't had justice yet. Hope she lasts long enough to get it.
As long as Indonesia has a banana republic justice system which mistreats Australians, Indonesia won't get my tourist dollar, aid dollar, military dollar, or any other support. Let 'em rot.
crest133
For those who say "it woundn't happen in Australia" think again! How many of you know about the infamous "Melbourne Case" ? In Japan the "Melbourne Case" as it is known makes for some great comparisons to Corby's, and as such holds a mirror to our own bias's. In Japan have been several TV shows about it showing Aussie's racist tenancies (one I remember discussed the defunct White Australia Policy) to treat Asian's as guilty, partically when drugs are concerned. Inocent Corby may well be, but because she was "beauty contestant" case is were it is because she is pretty, young and most importantly white and as Hinch said "big boobs", it this case cativates the media's and our interest. If Corby was Chinese then few would be interested as she would have been "guilty".
On balance it would appear that in the Melbourne case and in Corby's they were being used as a unwitting/unknowning mules to import drugs. Australian's should start at home before finding 3rd world legal processes/dillence less than acceptable. At least Corby had language translation provided!
On balance it would appear that in the Melbourne case and in Corby's they were being used as a unwitting/unknowning mules to import drugs. Australian's should start at home before finding 3rd world legal processes/dillence less than acceptable. At least Corby had language translation provided!
House_Keeper said:
I agree the media is not being objective. The media, in its very nature will never be fully objective. But, I saw the verdict live on TV, and with the Judges reading out their 80 page verdict, so called "fact" by "fact", I believe that there are many places where "beyond reasonable doubt" fails.
For example, the Judges were reading statements from the verdict like, "It is true, that...", followed by the "facts" in the case — many of these facts were statements made by baggage handler Winata. With no surveillance evidence, much of the case hinged on the word of Winata and nothing else.
e.g. "It is true, that the baggage handler asked the defendant to completely open the boogie board bag, and the defendant said 'No, no. I have some.', and zipped up the bag". There is no evidence to support this "truth" according to the legal system, only one man's word.
This was said on live TV, read out by the Judges — no media distortion there. Thus, I still, really believe that this girl did not commit the crime.
always_learning said:
Mostly. No one bothered to translate her plea to the Judges, (well, not until later on).
Having said that, I do believe every country has its problems, including Australia. Interesting how I've never heard of this Melbourne case. Many others would be in the same boat...
Thanks for your insights.
crest133 said:
Crest,
We do NOT have any right of free speech in Australia. Could people at least learn their own constitutional rights instead of repeating what they hear from US media!!!!!
Your approach of 'we don't agree with them so let's not help them' is naive and demonstrates a lack of understanding of the processes involved in encouraging change.
Can I assume that you did therefore not donate anything to Indonesia during the Tsunami disaster (which is continuing to affect the lives of millions, if not reported in the popular press) or that you have requested that your donations be returned?
The best approach to make a people 'more like us' (which isn't necessarily good or bad) is to ensure that we do support them.
If you seriously want a nation to have the same values you engage them and demonstrate those values - you don't isolate them.
And before South African appartheid is raised, remember that that was a sporting ban only. The rest of the world continued to buy their diamonds, etc and engage them in meaningful dialogue to promote and demonstrate change.
Cheers,
Aceyducey
Hi Acey
I'd prefer you analyse the topic and not border on being unnecessarily and unpleasantly personal.
On Topic - I have free speech in Australia - here I am saying what I damn well like and no-one is carting me off. I can do the same on any street corner or on a soapbox in the Domain in Sydney as many do, ring John Laws on radio and have my say, go grizzle at my local member.
Yes they have free speech in USA too.
Paragraph 2 says my approach is naive, thank you.
Paragraph 3 is a personal slur, poorly disguised as a question. thank you.
I respect and admire your intellect and expertise on property and investing, and therefore I am surprised by your last post.
As for the best method of bringing about change in Indonesia, well, IMHO, countries like them eat soft approach do-gooders for breakfast.
cheers
crest133
I'd prefer you analyse the topic and not border on being unnecessarily and unpleasantly personal.
On Topic - I have free speech in Australia - here I am saying what I damn well like and no-one is carting me off. I can do the same on any street corner or on a soapbox in the Domain in Sydney as many do, ring John Laws on radio and have my say, go grizzle at my local member.
Yes they have free speech in USA too.
Paragraph 2 says my approach is naive, thank you.
Paragraph 3 is a personal slur, poorly disguised as a question. thank you.
I respect and admire your intellect and expertise on property and investing, and therefore I am surprised by your last post.
As for the best method of bringing about change in Indonesia, well, IMHO, countries like them eat soft approach do-gooders for breakfast.
cheers
crest133
Aceyducey said:
Couldn't agree more Acey.
The media coverage and Australian public mood reminds me of another media circus some time ago - Lindy Chamberlain, but in her case she was reviled because most people could not INDENTIFY with her. I remember being terribly ashamed of what happened at the time. And in fact saw some friends in a new light! What a witch hunt!
Conversely most Aussies can identify with Corby and the media reporting has been skewed accordingly.
Isn't there an Australian man (?Hicks) still in Guantanamo (?spell) uncharged after some years. Independant visitors claim he is tortured. Where is the media outrage re this?
I'm with Acey all the way on this one !
Boy are we becoming the "Ugly American" image we've been happy to tout or have we always been so. The Melbourne Case which AL raised is only one example ... there are most likely so countless more. We forgot them or more likely didn't even hear of them as they didn't interest us as the stories couldn't sell newsprint.
Friends of mine visited Bali 2 months ago ... the locals in the areas where they are pedalling drugs truely believe that Corby did it. They quoted some hearsay info that helped to support their case ... it made sense. None of that info has apparently been shown in Oz media.
Now I'm in Japan so stuff like this doesn't make the media ... of course. Hell even PM Howard doesn't get on TV here when he visits, kid you not. So I've been spared the 3 ring circus tugging at heart strings ... she could be your daughter ... oh poor framed Corby.
As for boycotting Bali or Indonesia ... well I think people should start making lists of all the countries where Aussies have been tried for drug smuggling ... weren't they all innocent too ? I'm sure if we give them all the 3 ring circus, smoke and mirrors a la "Chicago" ... well we'd have to stay home.
Just out of curiousity, what was Corby's job ?
Boy are we becoming the "Ugly American" image we've been happy to tout or have we always been so. The Melbourne Case which AL raised is only one example ... there are most likely so countless more. We forgot them or more likely didn't even hear of them as they didn't interest us as the stories couldn't sell newsprint.
Friends of mine visited Bali 2 months ago ... the locals in the areas where they are pedalling drugs truely believe that Corby did it. They quoted some hearsay info that helped to support their case ... it made sense. None of that info has apparently been shown in Oz media.
Now I'm in Japan so stuff like this doesn't make the media ... of course. Hell even PM Howard doesn't get on TV here when he visits, kid you not. So I've been spared the 3 ring circus tugging at heart strings ... she could be your daughter ... oh poor framed Corby.
As for boycotting Bali or Indonesia ... well I think people should start making lists of all the countries where Aussies have been tried for drug smuggling ... weren't they all innocent too ? I'm sure if we give them all the 3 ring circus, smoke and mirrors a la "Chicago" ... well we'd have to stay home.
Just out of curiousity, what was Corby's job ?
I'd be interested to see the results of a forum opinion poll on a few questions relating to the Corby case, e.g.
would you like to have Indonesia's justice system in Australia instead of the one we have now ?
do you think Corby got a fair trial ?
do you think the prosecution case would convict her in Australia ?
do you think she is guilty ?
For the record, before someone gets the wrong idea,
I like stiff penalties for drugs.
I like a fair legal system.
I don't know how to set up a poll on this forum so it's a suggestion.
cheers
crest133
would you like to have Indonesia's justice system in Australia instead of the one we have now ?
do you think Corby got a fair trial ?
do you think the prosecution case would convict her in Australia ?
do you think she is guilty ?
For the record, before someone gets the wrong idea,
I like stiff penalties for drugs.
I like a fair legal system.
I don't know how to set up a poll on this forum so it's a suggestion.
cheers
crest133
crest133 said:
We don't have permissions to create polls in the Coffee Lounge. Probably just as well — I personally don't think a poll on this topic is worthwhile. I think we're getting much more through discussion in this thread.
Just my views...
I have just read in The Herald Sun that
Quote -" Heroin use is rife within the prison, courtesy of corrupt officials,
a fact that makes a mockery of the Bali court's zeal in punishing Corby
for allegdly importing marijuana." Unquote
Well well well, is this a disgrace. What is going on here. I could not believe
what I had just read.
These judges and officials have no morals or standards. Why is this allowed
to happen and why are the 3 judges that sentenced Corby turning a blind eye
to this.???
I have also read that the jail food that is prepared for the prisoners contains dirt and stones and is not edible. They treat their dogs better than prisoners.
What sort of high moral ground do these judges walk on.
Their disgusting toilet facilities are cruelly placed near food preparation areas.
Shame Shame Shame, and so very cruel.
Kind regards
Marina
Quote -" Heroin use is rife within the prison, courtesy of corrupt officials,
a fact that makes a mockery of the Bali court's zeal in punishing Corby
for allegdly importing marijuana." Unquote
Well well well, is this a disgrace. What is going on here. I could not believe
what I had just read.
These judges and officials have no morals or standards. Why is this allowed
to happen and why are the 3 judges that sentenced Corby turning a blind eye
to this.???
I have also read that the jail food that is prepared for the prisoners contains dirt and stones and is not edible. They treat their dogs better than prisoners.
What sort of high moral ground do these judges walk on.
Their disgusting toilet facilities are cruelly placed near food preparation areas.
Shame Shame Shame, and so very cruel.
Kind regards
Marina
Hicks and Habib have been kept in deplorable conditions by a repressive regime in Cuba because it would be unconstitutional to keep them in the USA for so long without charge or in such conditions. The fact that Habib was eventually released does not not lessen the "crime against humanity" perpetrated there. The photo of Hicks with an RPG launcher on his shoulder proves far less than a stash of hash in Corby's luggage. Where's the outcry???? Hicks is not a teary, pretty, all Auistralian girl and that is the end of the matter. Our Gov couldn't give a rat's bum if he rots in Guantanamo bay and I suggest that most of Corby's supporters would agree.bawley said:
Talk about "justice": Has anyone heard anything of the Taliban and elQuieda prisioners picked up in Pakistan and Afganistan? Bet you never do and that their battered bodies will be carefully disposed of.
In a world full of injustice Chapelle is but another possible example.
I'm just trying to keep some ballance in the matter. .... Thommo