Just curious as to how many people here built something when they invested in property.
Did you build something when you invested?
- Thread starter yieldmatters
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Just to clarify when I say house I mean house / apartment / townhouse - I was using the word broadly. I would update the poll but I don't know how! 
I'll take the bait.....even though I know it's a loaded question.
"Just curious" my ar$e......you've enunciated quite clearly in the past that it is your fervent passion, and you relish any chance you get to stick it to investors who don't provide fresh new accomodation for the likes of you to either rent cheaply or buy for unreasonably low.....or in your eyes realistic amounts.
I can remember you quoted figures from your GHPC mates that the number is around 6%......so why the charade YM ?? Call it a range from 5% to 8%. There's your answer....so what ?? If you want to increase it, what are you doing about it ??
For us personally, the wife and I couldn't give a stuff about the FHB who currently make up about ~ 18% of the market. We hear them bleat constantly, but it's falling on deaf ears. I'm more inclined to concentrate on the 82% of the buying market who aren't FHB, at least they have a bit of money.
I tend to do business with people and organisations who have money. No point scratching around entering into business contracts with folks who continually and clearly exhibit that they don't have sufficient funds to execute their side of the contract fully.
To answer your poll question directly, we have fortunately never built anything, and never intend to build anything to house anyone. As you know, we have a preference for property that doesn't involve housing. We find there are far too many business objective downsides in providing housing, they tend to distract us from our real objective, which is to gain our financial freedom from owning property. We use property as the vehicle to get where are going. We don't fall in love with the tyres or the fender or the steering wheel. Once we arrive at our destination, the vehicle will be disposed of, and someone else can drive it.
We are in the property game for ourselves and our objectives. We are happy to leave the social housing solution to governments and investors such as yourself (am I right in assuming you own substantial amounts of housing that you lease out to wanting members of the community ??) who really care about the FHB's plight. Providing accomodation does not constituent one of our objectives.
Down the track, we definitiely intend to build, and build lots of stuff, but once finished, the end products, by deliberate design, will not house one single person.....but they will fulfill our personal investing objectives.
So, the answer to your poll from our little patch will be nil. Yippee.
Now - onto you - how many dwellings have you provided or are intending to provide ??
"Just curious" my ar$e......you've enunciated quite clearly in the past that it is your fervent passion, and you relish any chance you get to stick it to investors who don't provide fresh new accomodation for the likes of you to either rent cheaply or buy for unreasonably low.....or in your eyes realistic amounts.
I can remember you quoted figures from your GHPC mates that the number is around 6%......so why the charade YM ?? Call it a range from 5% to 8%. There's your answer....so what ?? If you want to increase it, what are you doing about it ??
For us personally, the wife and I couldn't give a stuff about the FHB who currently make up about ~ 18% of the market. We hear them bleat constantly, but it's falling on deaf ears. I'm more inclined to concentrate on the 82% of the buying market who aren't FHB, at least they have a bit of money.
I tend to do business with people and organisations who have money. No point scratching around entering into business contracts with folks who continually and clearly exhibit that they don't have sufficient funds to execute their side of the contract fully.
To answer your poll question directly, we have fortunately never built anything, and never intend to build anything to house anyone. As you know, we have a preference for property that doesn't involve housing. We find there are far too many business objective downsides in providing housing, they tend to distract us from our real objective, which is to gain our financial freedom from owning property. We use property as the vehicle to get where are going. We don't fall in love with the tyres or the fender or the steering wheel. Once we arrive at our destination, the vehicle will be disposed of, and someone else can drive it.
We are in the property game for ourselves and our objectives. We are happy to leave the social housing solution to governments and investors such as yourself (am I right in assuming you own substantial amounts of housing that you lease out to wanting members of the community ??) who really care about the FHB's plight. Providing accomodation does not constituent one of our objectives.
Down the track, we definitiely intend to build, and build lots of stuff, but once finished, the end products, by deliberate design, will not house one single person.....but they will fulfill our personal investing objectives.
So, the answer to your poll from our little patch will be nil. Yippee.
Now - onto you - how many dwellings have you provided or are intending to provide ??
Great post Daz.
For my own part YM, I haven't built yet, but then again I'm just starting out.
I have however bought a 1yo house off a poor seperating couple who needed to sell - so did my good deed there. Another one had just completed construction when I bought it - ok technically I didn't build it.
I also now have development blocks for 5 future dwellings - so one day I will get your approval by building new housing stock. I don't plan on selling it to FHB's to increase housing supply though - I plan to get rich off the equity I create. Sorry. The only stock I'll be putting onto the market is rental stock, which I guess is still helping on another level.
I'll start feeling somewhat sorry for FHB's when they can't buy ANY property - not just the one's they have their hearts set on. That point appears to be a long way off yet.
Daz raises a good point about IP's being a business though. Here's an anology with my business - do I drop the prices in my business because there are people that can't afford it? No, I keep them at a fair level, and increase them every year as my costs go up.
My business is in a swish part of town (ie. inner ring next to the CBD)- you can go and get the same service in suburbs further out for half the price. Should people start picketing my store and going to ACA/TT because they can't afford it? No - they go to a shop further out where the prices are cheaper and they can afford it. I don't feel any sympathy for people who whinge about my prices, just like I don't feel sorry for FHB whingers (not all are) - when there is a cheaper alternative, suck it up and deal with it!
Now people do this with businesses and products every day, yet the don't seem to feel they should have to when it comes to housing.
For my own part YM, I haven't built yet, but then again I'm just starting out.
I have however bought a 1yo house off a poor seperating couple who needed to sell - so did my good deed there.
Another one had just completed construction when I bought it - ok technically I didn't build it.I also now have development blocks for 5 future dwellings - so one day I will get your approval by building new housing stock. I don't plan on selling it to FHB's to increase housing supply though - I plan to get rich off the equity I create. Sorry. The only stock I'll be putting onto the market is rental stock, which I guess is still helping on another level.
I'll start feeling somewhat sorry for FHB's when they can't buy ANY property - not just the one's they have their hearts set on. That point appears to be a long way off yet.
Daz raises a good point about IP's being a business though. Here's an anology with my business - do I drop the prices in my business because there are people that can't afford it? No, I keep them at a fair level, and increase them every year as my costs go up.
My business is in a swish part of town (ie. inner ring next to the CBD)- you can go and get the same service in suburbs further out for half the price. Should people start picketing my store and going to ACA/TT because they can't afford it? No - they go to a shop further out where the prices are cheaper and they can afford it. I don't feel any sympathy for people who whinge about my prices, just like I don't feel sorry for FHB whingers (not all are) - when there is a cheaper alternative, suck it up and deal with it!
Now people do this with businesses and products every day, yet the don't seem to feel they should have to when it comes to housing.
I've only bought existing / new properties and have not done much to them. The biggest improvement was a colorbond gate.
I assume the reason for the poll is to illustrate just how little value we add as investors, and how we don't create anything, blah blah blah. Perhaps to induce a little guilt? Shake us up lest we feel too good about what we've achieved by pointing out how we've just built our wealth on something that doesn't have much tangible benefit to society, and off the backs of FHBs?
I can give you the whole counterargument about how the money we pay to sellers / builders create jobs (builders, tradies, agents, banks, etc), stimulate the economy, how buying a new property is no different from developing one myself, etc.
But that would just be arguing a losing position. Fact is, money going into property is NOT the most efficient use of it if you're looking at society as a whole. More money on infrastructure, education, research, etc would be MUCH better.
The question is, should we care whether as investors we create anything? I sure don't.
I do plan to build and develop properties later on. But that will be for my personal profit, not because I have any desire to serve humanity. If I wanted to do good I'll donate to charities.
For those who ARE shaken by what YM is pointing out, get used to it. You're going to hear a lot of this sort of thing for people as you invest. And often from family and friends, not just faceless people on the net.
Alex
I assume the reason for the poll is to illustrate just how little value we add as investors, and how we don't create anything, blah blah blah. Perhaps to induce a little guilt? Shake us up lest we feel too good about what we've achieved by pointing out how we've just built our wealth on something that doesn't have much tangible benefit to society, and off the backs of FHBs?
I can give you the whole counterargument about how the money we pay to sellers / builders create jobs (builders, tradies, agents, banks, etc), stimulate the economy, how buying a new property is no different from developing one myself, etc.
But that would just be arguing a losing position. Fact is, money going into property is NOT the most efficient use of it if you're looking at society as a whole. More money on infrastructure, education, research, etc would be MUCH better.
The question is, should we care whether as investors we create anything? I sure don't.
I do plan to build and develop properties later on. But that will be for my personal profit, not because I have any desire to serve humanity. If I wanted to do good I'll donate to charities.
For those who ARE shaken by what YM is pointing out, get used to it. You're going to hear a lot of this sort of thing for people as you invest. And often from family and friends, not just faceless people on the net.
Alex
Done all or the above except point 4.
Soon to be building PPoR no.5.
Sorry YM;
No brand-new accommodation for the "needy" from me so far.
That will happen in the next few years, but it will only be to make more some more peso's for us.
Like Dazz; I don't care so much for the supposed plight of the FHB.
Been there and done that; lived out in woop-woop in a cheap old clunker, and soldiered on.
Soon to be building PPoR no.5.
Sorry YM;
No brand-new accommodation for the "needy" from me so far.
That will happen in the next few years, but it will only be to make more some more peso's for us.
Like Dazz; I don't care so much for the supposed plight of the FHB.
Been there and done that; lived out in woop-woop in a cheap old clunker, and soldiered on.
No major projects on IP's yet but I do the usual common sense stuff to increase yields on my purchases.
I try to buy cheap and to add value installing aircon, replacing the carpet, new paint and cosmetic improvements such as cleaning, installing water mixers, new light fittings, a new door here and there, garage door opener etc.
I keep costs low by doing most of the work myself.
Cheers
I try to buy cheap and to add value installing aircon, replacing the carpet, new paint and cosmetic improvements such as cleaning, installing water mixers, new light fittings, a new door here and there, garage door opener etc.
I keep costs low by doing most of the work myself.
Cheers
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I'll take the bait also.
I only have one established IP but am planning to build upon land I own later in the year, so I guess in some circles I could be said to be providing new housing and not just speculating. Personally, I don't really care. The new IP will give me some instant equity, greater depreciation benefits and a higher yield. Like Daz, I have no real interest in social or government policies regarding housing issues, It's not my job and is largely academic to me. What I do have is repect for people who see the housing situation for what it is and just crack on with things. Need to get a second job? "No worries." Need to save a bit longer? "OK, we can do that." Have to catch public transport to work? "OK, maybe we can car-pool". I try to see solutions rather than obstacles.
Just my opinion. (and off the soapbox now)
Phil.
I only have one established IP but am planning to build upon land I own later in the year, so I guess in some circles I could be said to be providing new housing and not just speculating. Personally, I don't really care. The new IP will give me some instant equity, greater depreciation benefits and a higher yield. Like Daz, I have no real interest in social or government policies regarding housing issues, It's not my job and is largely academic to me. What I do have is repect for people who see the housing situation for what it is and just crack on with things. Need to get a second job? "No worries." Need to save a bit longer? "OK, we can do that." Have to catch public transport to work? "OK, maybe we can car-pool". I try to see solutions rather than obstacles.
Just my opinion. (and off the soapbox now)
Phil.
Hi there
our situation does not fit into the poll. We lost 2 properties in the Canberra bushfires and rebuilt one of the them. Couldn't afford to rebuild the other due to underinsurance, the costs and likely delays in rebuilding.
The reason for rebuilding - probably makes no sense to true property investors - but the property we rebuilt had been my families home for 30 years - and no bushfire was going to get the better of us.
The property is now rented and another family has a home as a result. We also receive a good rental return.
thanks
our situation does not fit into the poll. We lost 2 properties in the Canberra bushfires and rebuilt one of the them. Couldn't afford to rebuild the other due to underinsurance, the costs and likely delays in rebuilding.
The reason for rebuilding - probably makes no sense to true property investors - but the property we rebuilt had been my families home for 30 years - and no bushfire was going to get the better of us.
The property is now rented and another family has a home as a result. We also receive a good rental return.
thanks
I won't vote as the result could be distorted. I have done all of those things but am windign it back. it takes years to develop a resi property and selling to these people with no money is nothing but painful. I am with Dazzling... forget housing the masses, that;s Kevins problem. I am lookign after the bottom line and resi development doesn't fit in with that - particulalry on the precipice of asset deflation and who knows what else.
I ticked the buy land/build, (multiple builds).
Have bought established housing and have done some up too; so almost a bit of everything you have asked.
All the investing is fun, the building (especially) on one level is rewarding because you create it from scratch. We got some nicely located, good value blocks, built good quality homes and had sweet equity from them immediately to kick us off onto whatever else took our fancy.
Love the building, but also love taking something older and jaded, and putting the life back in it...this game, for us, is caught between procreation and rejuvenation....hope to keep doing more of the same.
We have a fortunate life.
Have bought established housing and have done some up too; so almost a bit of everything you have asked.
All the investing is fun, the building (especially) on one level is rewarding because you create it from scratch. We got some nicely located, good value blocks, built good quality homes and had sweet equity from them immediately to kick us off onto whatever else took our fancy.
Love the building, but also love taking something older and jaded, and putting the life back in it...this game, for us, is caught between procreation and rejuvenation....hope to keep doing more of the same.
We have a fortunate life.
Oooooo procreation is always fun!
All builds for instant equity, top rents and top depreciations and only one ready built but bought from brand new as it was in Mandurah during the boom. We weren't even looking so it was an impulse buy for $295,000 which was bank valued at $450,000 approx 6 months later so we got some quick equity out to help with our developing plans!
Interesting result - there is actually quite a lot of construction going on among this group - surprised me.
If you did buy an existing place, then those that received the money might have bought another existing place, and those that received the money might have built something .... so you never know what happens at the end of the chain reaction you set off (I think Alex made that point somewhere). So the survey doesn't mean a lot.
It is just for interest - I'm not loading this for my social agenda / FHBs etc. In most markets when the price signal is high the economy responds to that price signal by increaseing supply. At the aggregate level this hasn't been happening - higher prices, but pretty flat construction activity. So I was curious what people here were doing.
Dazzling --> Impressive rant which I'll leave alone except to say I've never quoted the percent of "investors" that build things. I think it must have been somebody else with links to GHPC.
If you did buy an existing place, then those that received the money might have bought another existing place, and those that received the money might have built something .... so you never know what happens at the end of the chain reaction you set off (I think Alex made that point somewhere). So the survey doesn't mean a lot.
It is just for interest - I'm not loading this for my social agenda / FHBs etc. In most markets when the price signal is high the economy responds to that price signal by increaseing supply. At the aggregate level this hasn't been happening - higher prices, but pretty flat construction activity. So I was curious what people here were doing.
Dazzling --> Impressive rant which I'll leave alone except to say I've never quoted the percent of "investors" that build things. I think it must have been somebody else with links to GHPC.
I voted reno 10-15k and knock down for higher use.
Any reno we do are in the 10-15k spend but this is hardly a minor reno as its a full kitchen, bathroom generally a partial re plumb and also full tiles throughout. This is in units, houses are different but still follow the basic formula.
So hardly a minor reno but just careful with my costs and also we do a lot of the work ourselves.
Just this week we finished a kitchen reno (strata unit) because the kitchen was about to collapse due to the water heater being under the sink. Job was to move the water heater from under the bench into the laundry, level of the kitchen floor (sand/cement) 1/2 ton of sand and then tile floor 7 m2 install kitchen with pearl black granite top, new sink and mixer tap. then finally a new electric switch ppanel with safety switch. Total cost
Kitchen cupboards (delivered) $1800
Sink $120
Mixer $50
New 50l water heater $400
Granite top $260
tiles (leftovers) $120
Glues $100
electrical cable & copper pipe and fittings $200
Stove remaining (have to draw the line somewhere) $0
3 weeks rent $600
Labour ???????
total excluding our own labour -- $3650
My point is that although the cost isn't great the result is substantial.
Cheers
Any reno we do are in the 10-15k spend but this is hardly a minor reno as its a full kitchen, bathroom generally a partial re plumb and also full tiles throughout. This is in units, houses are different but still follow the basic formula.
So hardly a minor reno but just careful with my costs and also we do a lot of the work ourselves.
Just this week we finished a kitchen reno (strata unit) because the kitchen was about to collapse due to the water heater being under the sink. Job was to move the water heater from under the bench into the laundry, level of the kitchen floor (sand/cement) 1/2 ton of sand and then tile floor 7 m2 install kitchen with pearl black granite top, new sink and mixer tap. then finally a new electric switch ppanel with safety switch. Total cost
Kitchen cupboards (delivered) $1800
Sink $120
Mixer $50
New 50l water heater $400
Granite top $260
tiles (leftovers) $120
Glues $100
electrical cable & copper pipe and fittings $200
Stove remaining (have to draw the line somewhere
) $03 weeks rent $600
Labour ???????
total excluding our own labour -- $3650
My point is that although the cost isn't great the result is substantial.
Cheers
