Discrimination - I was disgusted

[ErikTyler]

Brilliant tenants of ours (who have been with us for 2 years) - rent always paid early, inspections perfect, absolutely lovely couple (husband is a Phd lecturer, wife is a stay at home mum).

They are moving out to a larger home, and we received a call from Elders Belconnen (yes, I am more than happy to name and shame), for a reference check.

First question, "I see that the tenants are Pakistani - they must use alot of spices when cooking; does the house smell?"

Response, "You do realise that by asking this question, you are in breach of the Anti-Discrimination Act, and I am not comfortable to answer that question"

"I'm only asking if they cook with spicy food, and if it makes the house smell"

Response, "I'm not comfortable answering that question. And I refer to the Anti - Discrimination Act"

Anyway, conversation pretty much ceased after that, but I was shocked, This is a relatively large and well known agency.

I emailed the PM and the agency principal, and, shockingly, they admitted that they had asked those questions - and they thought it was justified!

I explained that by asking the question, there is an inference that the answer could determine whether they are accepted for the property or not - and as the question is based on their nationality / race, it is discrimination.

I've taken it upon myself to report them to the Office of Fair Trading, and also informed the tenant - who is mortified, and has also reported them.

I hate that in this day and age, we still have "professionals" being discriminatory.

 

[santaslayer]

I was asked by one of my PMs if there were any backgrounds or cultures he would like me to filter out of the process. It happens all the time - whether we like it or not. But yes, I totally agree with you.

 

[Peter_Tersteeg]

Yes, it's discrimination and shouldn't happen.

You could have also helped the prospective tentant by stating that they take excellent care of the property, there's never been a problem with their cooking methods and you highly recommend them as tenants.

By getting into an argument you guaranteed they won't get the property.

 

[mattnz]

I think you would have been much more helpful for your tenant in trying to find a house by saying what you said in this post, that they were perfect tenants, rather than the actions you took. Hopefully the agency won't blacklist them, out of spite for being raked over the coals by both of you.

 

[evand]

Are you saying that he should have turned a blind eye to discrimination to not upset the agent? You serious?

I think you would have been much more helpful for your tenant in trying to find a house by saying what you said in this post, that they were perfect tenants, rather than the actions you took. Hopefully the agency won't blacklist them, out of spite for being raked over the coals by both of you.

 

[Terry_w]

Did they get accepted as tenants?

 

[HotRod]

Really is blown out of proportion.

It's just a shame that the ethnicity was brought into it but otherwise it is a fair question.

Just like owners don't want smokers or dogs in the house because they can stink. People don't want too many smells that might linger in the house.

Doesn't matter really if they're Aussies cooking Indian or Pakistanis cooking fish and chips.

Maybe you could have asked the agent to rephrase the question. Your answer makes it sound like you were avoiding the answer because they do indeed cook with spices and stink the whole house up and stain the walls with spices.

 

[sanj]

as the treasurer of the somersoft smelly darky association i dont know if what was said was entirely discriminatory but without knowing the tone in which things were said it is hard to say


maybe the property had white tiled splashbacks etc, i know i wouldnt want tumeric stains all over it, although white splashbacks in a rental is a bit silly.

i also think the tenants are going to be the ones missing out here despite being excellent tenants, perhaps the OP could have handled the question a bit better (not blaming him either)

there are a lot of curries in australia now, i think most of us are pretty good but some are proper village buffoons, the brown equivalent of trev from kwinana and so some of them wouldnt air the place properly etc if they were cooking curries. i vaguely remember there being a thread on SS along these lines a year or so ago

 

[ErikTyler]

Are you saying that he should have turned a blind eye to discrimination to not upset the agent? You serious?

I think the issue here is the majority of people who have attacked me, instead of the discrimination by the other agency, are landlords who self manage; and probably do discriminate themselves.

It's a shame - I didn't expect such negative comments when I took the correct measures to stand up for a tenants rights, and to point out the issues within this industry.

 

[ErikTyler]

I think you would have been much more helpful for your tenant in trying to find a house by saying what you said in this post, that they were perfect tenants, rather than the actions you took. Hopefully the agency won't blacklist them, out of spite for being raked over the coals by both of you.

??? Are you serious?

 

[ErikTyler]

Really is blown out of proportion.

It's just a shame that the ethnicity was brought into it but otherwise it is a fair question.

Just like owners don't want smokers or dogs in the house because they can stink. People don't want too many smells that might linger in the house.

Doesn't matter really if they're Aussies cooking Indian or Pakistanis cooking fish and chips.

Maybe you could have asked the agent to rephrase the question. Your answer makes it sound like you were avoiding the answer because they do indeed cook with spices and stink the whole house up and stain the walls with spices.

Are you serious?

I should have "asked the agent to rephrase the question?"

So, man walks up to you in the street, and says he hates black people - do you ask him to rephrase his question, or do you take him to task?

The issue we have today is people are too soft, or weak, to stand up for others' basic rights.

And did you not read my post? These tenants were perfect - no issues with inspections, smell or food. But again, this is 100% beside the point; we are not here to justify discrimination.

Shame on you.

 

[Melbournian]

i think erick the question is what do you hope to achieve out of reporting the agency etc? as in the outcome.

discrimination does exist in australia but sometimes clash of cultures do occur due to misunderstandings.

 

[Melbournian]

in btw you got pretty good website there. very corporate and clean look

 

[ErikTyler]

i think erick the question is what do you hope to achieve out of reporting the agency etc? as in the outcome.

discrimination does exist in australia but sometimes clash of cultures do occur due to misunderstandings.

If one does not stand up for the basic rights afforded in this country, then what's the point?

 

[Terry_w]

Hi Erik,

At first glance I thought it was discriminatory, but...

The agent assumed they were Pakistani.

She then assumed that people of Pakistani origin cook with spices and asked the question if the house smells.

This is different to saying "we don't rent to Pakistanis because they cook with spices."

Have you got a section of the Discrimination Act that you think has been breached?

 

[elsLan]

I think it's a fair question.

I happily accept tenants from any ethnic background providing that they pay their rent on time and care for my property.
I would expect that any tenant would clean up after cooking activities however, I think the agent was doing the right thing in attempting to ascertain the level of care of which this tenant takes. If there is a relatively common and known issue affecting any property owner, I would expect my agent to provide me with the information if there is possibility that it may affect me.
It's like asking if a pet owner regularly picks up dog droppings or lets it fester and decorate the yard for months allowing a permeating odour to linger around the property?
A good tenant will collect and dispose, just as a good tenant will clean and air a house after cooking.
Does that mean pet owners are being targeted and discriminated against because some people are lazy and don't care?

No, it's simply obtaining information from past history to determine if a tenant is going to maintain my property and exercise common sense, preventing a massive clean up at the end....

At least this agent was trying to get the information from you to advise their landlord that hopefully they would need to recarpet, repaint and replace window furnishings after 12 months of tenancy.
Most agents may not even call for a reference and will stereotype the tenant purely because they might get reported and misinterpreted by 'narrow minded' people who carry on about being politically correct and an act of injustice..... then the landlord misses out on a good tenant due to the actions and experiences of 'bad tenants'.

If a tenant is great and one you would rent to again, then give them a reference that says as such. Same for a not so good tenant.
Simple. Take out the racial references and relay the facts.

 

[elsLan]

Are you serious?

I should have "asked the agent to rephrase the question?"

So, man walks up to you in the street, and says he hates black people - do you ask him to rephrase his question, or do you take him to task?


Shame on you.

Did the agent say "My landlord hates people who cook with spices- so your tenants cook with spices?"

That would determine racial discrimination.

I hate it when a delivery man throws a package on my lovely roses and crushes them and breaks what's inside, but I don't hate him because he's not australian when he does that. I hate his actions that result in my months of pruning and caring for something is destroyed because he's too damn lazy to open the little gate and put the package next to the door. Oh and the fact that an item marked fragile and worth $200 is broken when I open it up"........

 

[mattnz]

Couldn't agree more elsLan. If a person is a smoker, you ask do they only smoke outside, do they pick up their cigarette butts etc. This isn't discriminating against smokers, merely doing appropriate due diligence on behalf of the owner, given likely scenarios that could come up.

Erik, it is simply a matter of dealing with things in a way that gets the right outcome for the tenant. Blowing things up with the agent wasn't going to get the right result for them.

A better way to handle it would have been to simply state that the tenants were fantastic, not appear to be avoiding the question when asked it. Your response could have been "they were perfect tenants. Their ethnicity isn't relevant and certainly hasn't been a cause for concern and shouldn't be for you either."

You have then educated, while ensuring your excellent tenants a strong chance of getting the property.

In any situation in life, there are ways to get your point across while still ensuring a successful outcome. Your actions ensured that any potential aversion to having people who cook with spices getting the property moved from being a risk that could be mitigated, to creating an issue for the people that you were meant to be reassuring that they were great tenants.

I don't self manage and have no idea what ethnicity any of my tenants are as it is irrelevant.

 

[pennyk]

The issue is that the other agent raised the issue of race prior to asking the question about cooking smells.

If there had been no mention of race, then there would have been no discrimination.

Its perfectly fine to ask if the house is smelly. The other agent just needs to work out how to ask questions to get the information they want, without linking it to race. They should ask the same question every time they are checking on a tenant, not just for people of a particular race. Then there can be no claim that they are being discriminatory.

 

[HiEquity]

I agree with elslan and Terry. There is no breach of the Racial Discrimination Act that I can tell - I suggest you read it. At no stage did this agent say "I hate black / brown people". He/she just asked whether these tenants left your property in a smelly state or not. He/she would likely ask the same question of pet owners, students, bikies or many other people.

The fact they asked the question is not evidence of discrimination. Actually, quite the reverse. If he/she discriminated against Pakistani people, no question would have been asked - the application would have just been rejected, likely without explanation. The fact they asked the question means they only actually wanted to discriminate against people who left their properties in a smelly / dirty condition (a perfectly legitimate form of discrimination), not people of Pakistani ethnicity alone (illegal).

I can only suggest you try looking at this from a different angle... on the evidence presented to date I'd be happy to have this agent managing my property. But as sanj said, a lot can be conveyed in the tone of the conversation and that may of course be the missing link - only you can judge that because we weren't there!