Do the unions still run federal labour?

[MichaelW]

Guys,

Just reading this article in today's SMH and there's a quote attributed to Kevin Rudd that made me cringe. He said:

The Opposition Leader, Kevin Rudd, said Ford's decision was a terrible development for Geelong and for the future of Australian manufacturing.

He said that if Labor was elected it would fast-track its planned review of existing industry policy for the automotive sector and make changes within three months of taking office.

"I don't want to be prime minister of a country where we don't manufacture things any more," Mr Rudd said.

And it sent a shiver down my spine...

What sort of prime minister can seriously stand up in support for market interventions to support a dying industry. His economic credentials just flew out the window! Hasn't this guy done economics 1.0.1? And don't get me wrong, I work for the steel manufacturing industry and the Ford development in VIC will have a definate negative impact on our Pipe&Tube supplied into that market. There will be flow on effects for sure.

It just made me think that maybe, despite all his tough talk, Kevin Rudd is still an old school labour union man through and through. I think he's been talking tough on economics, but when push comes to shove it will be market interventions to protect blue collar jobs and a return to protectionism and a step back from free market economics.

As a voter that was seriously entertaining the concept of voting for Rudd because I'm sick of Howard's lies and his extreme right stuff like stealing the land from indigenous communities on the pretext of "protecting children", I think Rudd's comments in that one article have swung me back to the government. Its a shame they don't have a stronger economic credential, because wars for the sake of oil, not ratifying Kyoto for the sake of one country's economic prosperity and stealing land under false pretenses certainly has jaded me against the libs. That and a whole lot of other stuff that they've got way wrong.

If only I could have a bit of each party. But unfortunately, I think Peter Costello is more important to our future than is Peter Garrot at the moment. So it looks like I might be locked in to the Libs after all. Sigh....

Cheers,
Michael.

 

[Sunfish]

It is a worry, I agree. GM has given the Commode some degree of certainty by being part of the "world car" concept in the Big 6 niche market. Falcon never achieved that so the Straight 6 is doomed and rationally, we can't afford a purely local engine.

If you are any good at what you do there is plenty of work elsewhere. It's hardly the government's job to ensure workers never have to move out of their comfort zones, physically or emotionally.

Sadly Dudd (That WAS a typo, but it can stay) will always be polls driven.

 

[buzzlightyear]

Actually worked for Ford a few years ago and left amongst other reasons that the automotive industry here is dying. Nothing that the government will do can arrest it. Look at the textile industry experience.

In my fours since I left 75% of the people that I worked with have left/made redundant or positions are now regional (ie Asia-Pac roles). Large suppliers have closed their doors or moved off-shore. Welcome to gloablisation....

GM has at least had access to a global rear wheel drive platform which suits the Australian market. Ford doesn't.

I think even the automotive unions are realitic enough to realise that, however will shout and play the political card, because that is what they do (some might argue they are trying to look after their members being displaced from their jobs not of their own making).

As for Kevin...well, he has been astute politically since taking power. He has effectively replicated the government in being social conservative with some clever positioning on non-economic matters (whatever you think about the merits of these policies).

The unions are still a wildcard, but don't think it will have as much play or bite in the community as it did previously. 16 years of economic growth and prosperity has dulled the senses.....

Change awaits people.....

 

[LynnH]

Buzz

You said " ... but I don't think (the unions) will have as much play or bite in the community as it did previously". I wish I shared your optimism.

We have a close friend who is a shop steward, and in the twenty-odd years we have known him, we have never had a serious discussion on politics, just a little light-hearted banter occasionally. He has even made comments in the past about what a good job Howard was doing.

However several months ago, things changed. Now, every time we see him, it seems like he is "on a mission" to make sure we vote Labor - it has almost reached a point where it has become a religious fervour! Now I don't know who I'll vote for - since I don't know who the local candidates are yet - but I sure as heck won't be badgered into voting for anyone!

Several other friends have had similar experiences with people they know - makes me wonder why the unions seem to be getting so desperate. What do they know that we don't???

Seems that there will be some interesting times ahead ...

Cheers
LynnH

 

[topcropper]

I agree with nearly everything you said michael.

Subsidies just lead to inefficiency. If the auto industry in this country can't compete without subsidies, then let it go, however if the subsidies were dropped, I'm sure some parts of the industry would survive, the efficient ones anyway.

Yep, drop all subsidies. I'm always ranting about subsidies in agriculture overseas. Farmers here don't get much assistance, but lets get rid of that too.


To change the subject. I think the plans to help indiginous communities are long overdue. I have spent a pension Thursday in Wilcania and Booroloola, by accident, not by choice. It's sickening and heartbreaking seeing an entire race of people drink themselves to death. Something had to be done. What would you do instead?

John Howard has the guts to do things. He took on the maritime unions. History says he lost, but current work practices and efficiencies say he really won. He stopped the flow of illegal immigrants. John Howard likes taking on the hard jobs and fixing things.

See ya's.

 

[buzzlightyear]

Buzz You said " ... but I don't think (the unions) will have as much play or bite in the community as it did previously". I wish I shared your optimism.

LynnH, I was referring to how the general community/voting public view (negative or otherwise) the machinations of the union movement in recent times eg John Robertson, Dean Mighell

Normally it would be viewed more in a negative light, but for reasons that escape me, it does not seem to have the same impact as it once did.I have no doubt the union movement will be very blunt and forthcoming about what they want if the ALP win the election. They always do.

I too have a few acquiantences who are involved with the ALP and have made very similar comments. I guess when you perceive you are close to achieving power, this tends to energise you.

 

[MichaelW]

To change the subject. I think the plans to help indiginous communities are long overdue. I have spent a pension Thursday in Wilcania and Booroloola, by accident, not by choice. It's sickening and heartbreaking seeing an entire race of people drink themselves to death. Something had to be done. What would you do instead?

I'm absolutely all for helping the indigenous communities. I just can't see how confiscating their land helps them? They have the power to go on to their lands and enforce all sorts of changes without actually confiscating land rights. So, what would I do differently? Leave them their land rights.

When I heard they were doing this I thought: OK, Howard realises he's at the end of his tenure and he's checking his "must do before I lose office" list and it looked something like this:

1. Suck up to the US so our security is assured should Indonesia do something really stupid. CHECK
2. Pull out of all multi-lateral forums and push the neo-conservative anglo-centric US-led vision for the world. CHECK
3. Ensure Kyoto has no legs so we can keep exporting coal and gas and ensure our unilateral prosperity at the expense of the environment. CHECK
3. Introduce GST to move the tax burden from income to expenditure. Got to have some effective taxation when the Baby Boomers retire. CHECK
4. Destroy the unions once and for all. CHECK
5. Revoke Mabo and marginalise those pesky aboriginals once and for all. ACTION OUTSTANDING

I reckon he thought he had to do something before he lost office and he has a history of being anti-indigenous. He probably figures confiscating their land under the false pretext of giving a damn about their health is a good start. Now we can let all those miners run havok over the north without having to worry about permission and rebates to indigenous communities. And the added bonus is it gives him a nice "hard stance" rally point for the upcoming election. "Look at me, I make the tough calls". In reality its more like, Point 5: ACTION COMMENCED.

Cheers,
Michael.

 

[MattR]

Hahaha...so well put MW! I am sure that some of that was tongue in cheek. maybe not.

For my mind I don't like a lot of LJH's social policies, but I would not change government on that at this time.

I just can't see that Labor really offers a significant or better alternative at this time. And some anecdotal comments I have heard of unionists does make me think "what the hell are they (unions) thinking". There is no way I would like to see industry go back to old practices and one of those would be increased union and/or government intervention.

As for subsidies as a rule I am generally not in favour of them. I would rather our tax dollars go where they are needed, primarily infrastructure, education and health. However I do think that we need to keep the food bowl of Australia economically viable. How to do that, I can't pretend that I know the answer.

 

[topcropper]

I'm absolutely all for helping the indigenous communities. I just can't see how confiscating their land helps them? They have the power to go on to their lands and enforce all sorts of changes without actually confiscating land rights. So, what would I do differently? Leave them their land rights.

Cheers,
Michael.

You make some great points.

It is a tough subject. I just hope what is now being done will help. Maybe it won't, but at least it was tried.

I think Noel Pearson should be made Australian of the year. What a great and gutsy man. A white man could have said what he did and be called a racist, but once Noel said what needed to be said, action has gotten under way.

Cheers mate.

 

[Mr. Fabulous]

What kinda spins me out is that people still believe there's a difference between the two parties.

Mark

 

[topcropper]

What kinda spins me out is that people still believe there's a difference between the two parties.

Mark

I've believed for a while that the middle ground has almost disappeared.

A fair bit of the reason was the failure of communism. Once it was determined that it just didn't work, the left moved a bit to the right all around the world. And right wing governments have just become a bit fairer as wealth has increased.

A good example is the Democrates. Years ago they were in the middle, but they got squeezed out when there was no room in there, and moved to the far left with the greens.

See ya's.

 

[Mr. Fabulous]

Hi TC,

Moved to the left? Nah, as far as I'm concerned, Labor is only just slightly to the left of a very far right Liberal party, same with most former lefty parties the world over. Big business talks for all forms of government these days. The unions have been losing ther voice the world over since the 60's when China offered up slave labour and manufacturing started moving there.

Mark

P.S. It saddens me to hear people speak these days about unions - working class people - about how unions are 'corrupt' and we need to get rid of them, like big business is angelic and socially aware, pffft. It's horrible. I guess they've forgotten who fought (and in a lot of cases died) so they could have reasonably decent working conditions. Conditions which they are now having taken away from them and they stand by and do nothing about it.

 

[Pushka]

Yup, which as a small business owner means that while I dislike intensely the Iraq invasion; erosion of society values, etc etc, and I might consider voting for Rudd; when it comes to the crunch I cant trust labor!

We have this week settled on a property that is amidst a construction site. There is the Trade Union Flag flying from one of the buildings. So even though I am driving on a public road, the Unions still 'own' it; and they are acting like I am an intruder in their patch, even though the property has been settled to me. Even to the extent that if they want to walk on the road, I have to wait until every one of them has passed by before I can drive my car through. And they smirk at me while doing it! heaven help us if unions think they actually have some power!

While I agree Mark, that in the past many benefits have been achieved through Union agitation and action, it is the militancy and aggression that I cant tolerate; like all business is bad and out to get the worker! And terms like 'working class' rile me; my partner works 50 - 60 hour weeks in our business, he gets no overtime, long service leave and we earn nothing when he takes a vacation. That is what I dislike about Unions - they think all business is bad and out to screw 'the worker'!

 

[MichaelW]

Yup, which as a small business owner means that while I dislike intensely the Iraq invasion; erosion of society values, etc etc, and I might consider voting for Rudd; when it comes to the crunch I cant trust labor!

Sigh,

Sadly I think you are spot on... As much as I hate what little Johnny has done in some regards, I can't really stomach the alternative. As Russell Crowe said in Master and Commander: "You should always choose the lesser of two weavils".

Where's Ricardo, can I renig on that bet? Seems I'm going to be betting against myself...

Cheers,
Michael.

 

[alexlee]

Viewing this in a more cynical light, isn't Rudd just saying this because he wants votes? i.e. he's basically going to say anything that makes Howard look bad, just to present himself as an alternative? It seems to me that this election is turning out to be a 'I'll vote labour because I don't like Johnnie' thing. Labour certainly hasn't put forward any concrete policies.

In any case, even if Rudd WAS PM, what's he going to do? He can't FORCE Ford to keep the plant open. Introducing more subsidies or whatever would open a totally different can of worms. You simply can't defend yourself against cheap manufacturing costs in Asia unless you're willing to go protectionist, and even the US isn't doing that (yet).
Alex

 

[Rixter]

Do the unions still run federal labour?

Is the pope catholic?

 

[Merovingian]

1. Suck up to the US so our security is assured should Indonesia do something really stupid. CHECK

I'm not confident on this point. I have heard, though I cannot cite, that the US has some huge gold mines in Indonesia that it would not risk should Indonesia attack Australia.

If anyone has any knowledge regarding this point, I'd be interested hear!

 

[Merovingian]

If only I could have a bit of each party. But unfortunately, I think Peter Costello is more important to our future than is Peter Garrot at the moment. So it looks like I might be locked in to the Libs after all. Sigh....

I echo your sentiments. I don't like the US-centric running of our country, for instance, but the fact remains, that Australia is in pretty good shape, and I would personally like to see Costello in at least his current position. I know a lot of people do not like Costello, but I think he has done a marvelous job running the Treasury and hence the economy.

I was watching a podcast of Alan Jones the other day where he mentioned that a good cricket side would have good batters down to about batter number six. He noted that the Liberal front bench is strong, and fits this cricket analogy, and that the Labor front bench does not. I tend to agree.

The fact is, I have no idea what Rudd's team is capable of — good or bad. I think this will come into play in the polling booths.

 

[Tulip]

Merovingian,

Freeport Pty, a USA company, owns the Freeport copper and gold mine in West Papua, which contributes about 10% of Indonesias GDP (yes, it's very, very big). There are various other mines in Indonesia also owned by USA companies.

I believe they like to keep a low profile in order to negotiate through the sometimes political minefields that occur operating in such environments.