Do you have a PIN for you credit or debit card?

[Kinnon Bell]

"Australians to PIN at point-of-sale from 1st August 2014

The Industry Security Initiative, a collective of Australia?s major financial institutions and card schemes, has announced that PIN will become the main form of card payment authorisation in Australia from 1 August 2014.

The industry-wide move to expand PIN at the point of sale (POS) and phase-out the signature as a form of verification on Australian credit and debit cards will take place over a short transition period from 1 August this year."


http://www.pinwise.com.au/

 

[chindonly]

So you need a pin, or can just wave the card at the terminal?

 

[impala67]

I've received several letters for each card. Signature is gone, PIN is the new standard. However I hadn't needed to enter a PIN (or sign) at a shop counter earlier this week (for c-card) & it was auto-approved !?

 

[Kinnon Bell]

Contactless will remain the same - nothing changes there.

The 'no auth' transactions of under ~$35 stay the same - eg when you go to wollies and your groceries come to $20 and you insert your chipped card or use magnetic stripe and it doesn't ask for PIN or signature.

As of 1st August when you'll start noticing the real difference if you're a 'signer' which is when a lot more merchant terminals will be updated.

 

[wylie]

I smile to myself when at my work (where our limit for pay pass transactions is $100) some customers insist on signing. I've said a few times, without trying to appear to be smart, that "of course, if you lose your wallet, the fact that you always sign won't stop the thief from running all over the centre spending up to your daily limit without needing either a signature or pin".

I once had a lady very rudely tell me "I didn't authorise that transaction". Too bad, it has gone through. I'm never rude, but really, some people just have no idea and believe the bank will cover any losses.

I don't generally ask if they are happy to use pay pass, though I do try to read customers and sometimes if I sense trouble, I will ask. Half of the people don't know what it is, don't know it is on their card and don't understand it. I've colleagues who do ask, and it adds so much time to each transaction that I just do it, and most people are fine with it, even most who have no idea their card can be used this way.

Seriously, I have had people who believe the fact they "always sign" will protect them in the event someone steals their wallet and spends up big.

I did go into the bank when our new cards had pay pass added without our consent when our cards were reissued. I asked if we were at risk until such time as we report the stolen card, as is my understanding before pay pass came in. I got no definite answer, just was told several times "we will look at each situation separately" :roll eyes:

 

[Mr. Fabulous]

I've had a PIN on my credit card for as long as I can remember.

 

[perthguy]

Seriously, I have had people who believe the fact they "always sign" will protect them in the event someone steals their wallet and spends up big.

Hilarious! A close family member had his credit card stolen. His name on the card it clearly male, not one of these ambiguous names. The card was used in a spending spree by a female. He went back to the shops with his statement and asked to see the signatures. Not even close to a match. He disputed all the transactions and got a refund from the bank.

 

[gottabespotless]

Pay pass usually works for amounts under $100. Sometimes the chip in a card is sensed when a customer inadvertently hovers it when attempting to insert the card - then there's the look of bewilderment on their face as to "what just happened"?

Looking forward to signing becoming a thing of the past. It takes up too much time and is a waste of paper. Also, I find it less secure as a lot of shop assistants seem to not bother checking the signature anyway, unfortunately. I work in retail and always insist on checking the signature provided against the card - and seeing how most people quickly put their card away as soon as they've used the eftpos machine, oh have I been told off for it too ! I always reply with something along the lines of, "perhaps you'd like me not to take a few seconds to check the signature when a thief steals your card and starts to forge it when he's on his big spend-up with your money?" Of course there is never a reply, just a blank look .

 

[allsuccess]

I also had the pin for a very long time.

 

[Joe D]

I have two credit cards, one of which I am the second card holder for an elderly relative (this second card had not been activated).

I was purchasing something small (<$30) from a store several months ago and used my card but didn't need to sign or enter PIN.

Sometime later I was checking my online record of transaction and noted that two identical transactions were registered on each unrelated account. (same time, vendor and amount).

I queried it with the bank who didn't believe me until they physically checked it themselves and put in a dispute claim. I was told at the time that they had never heard of this happening.

Transaction on the second card was refunded several weeks later, but bank could offer no explanation.

nb: I believe it happened because both cards were in close proximity to the machine and I'm certain there will be many more people who may have been unwittingly duped.

 

[cimbom]

When I worked in retail during my uni days, people were thrilled when I would check their signature

 

[wylie]

I have two credit cards, one of which I am the second card holder for an elderly relative (this second card had not been activated).

I was purchasing something small (<$30) from a store several months ago and used my card but didn't need to sign or enter PIN.

Sometime later I was checking my online record of transaction and noted that two identical transactions were registered on each unrelated account. (same time, vendor and amount).

I queried it with the bank who didn't believe me until they physically checked it themselves and put in a dispute claim. I was told at the time that they had never heard of this happening.

Transaction on the second card was refunded several weeks later, but bank could offer no explanation.

nb: I believe it happened because both cards were in close proximity to the machine and I'm certain there will be many more people who may have been unwittingly duped.

With pay pass, this cannot happen. Using the system our store has, nobody can accidentally wave past the machine. It must be entered into the POS system, and the transaction type entered before the machine will accept the payment, and it cannot go through twice.

I'm not sure if other systems are different.

 

[Joe D]

With pay pass, this cannot happen.

Funny, that was what the bank said as well!

(although I'm not sure what system the shop was using.)

 

[gottabespotless]

When I worked in retail during my uni days, people were thrilled when I would check their signature

Back when I used to sign I really appreciated it too and I always made a point of thanking the shop assistant. Some people still do the same, but then there are those who are always in such a big hurry... PINs will be better for them .

 

[wylie]

Funny, that was what the bank said as well!

(although I'm not sure what system the shop was using.)

Maybe Paywave? I don't watch too many adverts, but there was one a while back with people walking past the sushi cash register and the line being held up when one person didn't have the "walk past" technology in the pocket.

Maybe different technologies can accidentally grab card details. I know the system we operate cannot do that.

And I check every signature. But I'm amazed how (back when I used to sign) how many shop assistants didn't do it.

 

[Crabnet]

Funny, that was what the bank said as well!

(although I'm not sure what system the shop was using.)

There is another form of transaction, mentioned earlier in this thread, where no cardholder authorisation is required.
These are called various names by different providers, but are generally small ticket transactions for low value purchases at merchants where the goods and services sold have low resale value which makes fraud less likely.
So you present your card and if the transaction value is below, say $35.00 no PIN or signature is required for approval.
The merchant has to agree to provide that service and the cardholder is protected if they notify their provider of fraudulent activity in a timely manner.

Also in many cases of credit card fraud it's the merchant that ends up bearing the cost through a charge back process brought by their bank.
The fraud where the merchant is not at fault is covered by the card providers who lose about 1% of transaction value to fraud and see it as a cost of doing business.
While keeping fraud to a manageable level their main aim is to encourage the use of credit cards by making it as easy as possible thus increasing their profits.

I prepared myself for the changeover the other day while I was at the bank.
The teller issued me with a temporary PIN for my business credit card which I had to reset to a PIN of my choosing at one of their ATM's before I would be able to use the card again.