Financial Hygiene.. our dirty society :)

[Rixter]

Rixter, when we say "working smarter, not harder", it can tend to imply "hardly working" which, in my experience applies generally to those who have ALREADY worked very hard for many years.
Are there really shortcuts to great riches for the average Joe?.

Markpatric, Yes there definitely is smarter ways, except I prefer to call them opportunities not short cuts as you describe them. They are available to everyone.

These opportuities dont discriminate why & who can or cant access them , its the beholder to the opportunity that does that.

Getting back to your great question tho, yes I believe there is but the Average Joe has to want it bad enough to motivate them through their comfort zone walls to successfully achieving it.

Cheers

 

[agent 86]

And I cannot help but see that all this is taking us on a journey back to core values, the sort of values that used to be taught by churches- strength of character, self dignity and respect for others etc....

Hahahahah .....love your sense of humour Bruce

A86

 

[markpatric]

Markpatric, Yes there definitely is smarter ways, except I prefer to call them opportunities not short cuts as you describe them. They are available to everyone.

These opportuities dont discriminate why & who can or cant access them , its the beholder to the opportunity that does that.

Getting back to your great question tho, yes I believe there is but the Average Joe has to want it bad enough to motivate them through their comfort zone walls to successfully achieving it.

Cheers

That`s right, one way or the other it IS hard work!.

Your theory seems to support the adage that we can all be rich and successful ie financially free.
I don`t believe this is true...why?, mathematics!, laws of supply and demand whatever you want to call it, it is impossible!, the same way you cannot flap your arms and fly in the next ten minutes.
Napoleon Hill said "whatever the mind can conceive and believe it can acheive", this serves his purposes and within reason it`s true but in practise it is nothing but a load of garbage!, otherwise what excuse is there for any negativity or unhappiness, drug addicted youngsters or the many millions dying of starvation etc etc............ it is not only a highly ignorant statement but proves that he was more interested in making you "think" he had the answers rather than providing any.
You think and he grows rich!.

 

[vandalic]

MBTI is a great tool for cohesion of teams in the workplace. I undertook professional training and individual assessment through the Australian Psychology Association a few years ago (I'm also an ESTJ).

It certainly provides a good high-level fundamental basis by which to develop teams with suitable compensation of team member individual strengths and weaknesses from a mindset and personal traits point of view.

It's worth doing if you haven't already.

Josh

 

[Rixter]

That`s right, one way or the other it IS hard work!.

Your theory seems to support the adage that we can all be rich and successful ie financially free.
I don`t believe this is true...why?, mathematics!, laws of supply and demand whatever you want to call it, it is impossible!, the same way you cannot flap your arms and fly in the next ten minutes.
Napoleon Hill said "whatever the mind can conceive and believe it can acheive", this serves his purposes and within reason it`s true but in practise it is nothing but a load of garbage!, otherwise what excuse is there for any negativity or unhappiness, drug addicted youngsters or the many millions dying of starvation etc etc............ it is not only a highly ignorant statement but proves that he was more interested in making you "think" he had the answers rather than providing any.
You think and he grows rich!.

Markpatric, I believ no one is right and no one is wrong - we all just just different perceived oppinions on what we individually think is right & wrong. How do we really know what we have been taught is right...sure we may have facts to back it up but how do we really know those facts are right......its only our perception of something beeing proved right within our own mind that sustains us to a certain belief. How do we really know the colour Blue is actually Blue??

You see our mind can not distingush between what really is fact and what is fiction. Its what we have conditioned ourselves to believe that does and thats what creates our mindset

But then again thats only my belief

 

[markpatric]

Take my word for it Rixter, blue is blue, the earth is round and you cannot fly by flapping your arms wildly!.

 

[Rixter]

Take my word for it Rixter, blue is blue, the earth is round and you cannot fly by flapping your arms wildly!.

Now now. C'mon Markpatric, next you'l be trying to convince us all that property has come off the boil

 

[quiggles]

Take my word for it Rixter, blue is blue, the earth is round and you cannot fly by flapping your arms wildly!.

Take MY word for it, markpatric, blue is only blue if you're not colourblind, the earth is oblate, not round and you can fly whether you flap your arms wildly or not .

A positive outlook will see you go a long way, if combined with sense and determination. A negative outlook will also see you go a long way - down. Why do so few succeed? Assuming this to be true (personally, I think it assumes a rather narrow view of 'succeed'), it is because the focus and the attitude to thrive are not as common or as easy to achieve as bitching about the world, blaming others and not getting off your duff.

 

[markpatric]

I repeat, blue is blue, the world is round and you cannot fly by flapping your arms wildly.
To dispute this is not only trivial but pointless in the context of the argument.
There is nothing at all wrong with negative, it`s necessary in an imperfect world, but overly negative yes, same with being positive.

The last point you made is true.

Someone commits a crime and you take a positive outlook and don`t press charges, next day the same offender goes a step further with devastating consequences for someone else.

You find an old person in the street has fallen and hit thier head, you help them up and happily go on your way sure they are ok, only they fall again when you are out of sight and die as a result.
Sometimes being negative causes us to take more care or think more about what is going on around us.

You have a relative with cancer who does no think straight and is a little "off" from the effects of chemo and is about to drive, you point this out but they get in the car anyhow.
Do you react negatively and force them out of the car or hope everything will be ok and stay positive?.

Just today I saw a story regarding a scammer who stole many millions off many people, the positive ones were burned the worst, one negative investor actually got his money back because he had the guts to confront the scammer and get "real" answers, he took positive action yes but what he did was seen as negative at the time, the rest lost everything....whole life savings in some cases.

Positive action is far different from a positive outlook, and can appear very negative.

 

[JoannaK]

What pearls of wisdom would you pass to your kids as they leave home on how to manage their finances? As investors are we passing on the really big picture (asset building) and forgetting to pass on gems of minutia that are required to build a foundation?

I feel that it's important to pass on the little things as well as the big things. I was a big picture person when I was younger, but in my line of work and through my own circumstances learned very quickly how to be a detailed person, and I honestly feel that it is the little detail that matters and can make or break something. Having said that though, you really need to know about the big picture for this is what gives you the drive and motivation to persist in the little things which at times can appear to be boring, unimportant and cumbersome.

I get very frustrated at the education system as they should be incorporating how to read a bank statement, how to write a cheque and balance their bank account and prepare budgets in the curriculum. I remember a time not understanding the DR and CR on my bank statement, and I remember when I had to ask someone how to write a cheque, and have it checked to make sure I had done it properly. I learned out of necessity how to prepare a budget.

These are fundamental life skills, and these are the things that I will be imparting to my children whilst also trying to teach them essential people skills. Afterall, in any business we all deal with people and I think that if you can't do that effectively then you'll always have difficulty acheiving your big picture.

 

[MichaelW]

Take MY word for it, markpatric, blue is only blue if you're not colourblind, the earth is oblate, not round and you can fly whether you flap your arms wildly or not .

A positive outlook will see you go a long way, if combined with sense and determination. A negative outlook will also see you go a long way - down. Why do so few succeed? Assuming this to be true (personally, I think it assumes a rather narrow view of 'succeed'), it is because the focus and the attitude to thrive are not as common or as easy to achieve as bitching about the world, blaming others and not getting off your duff.

Quiggles,

Great post! Agree completely. At the end of the day it all comes down to a positive outlook COUPLED with determination, resilience, persistance, tennacity, fortitude and a wee bit of good luck. If you don't have the former then its nigh on impossible to muscle up enough of the latter...

Life won't hand it to you on a silver platter, but if you KNOW its there for the taking then it can firm your resolve to go out there and make it happen. If, on the other hand, you KNOW it can't be done then just sit back and relax with the mainstream 95% and enjoy bitching about it because you certainly are never going to get what you want.

Cheers,
Michael.

 

[Simon]

I get very frustrated at the education system as they should be incorporating how to read a bank statement, how to write a cheque and balance their bank account and prepare budgets in the curriculum. I remember a time not understanding the DR and CR on my bank statement, and I remember when I had to ask someone how to write a cheque, and have it checked to make sure I had done it properly. I learned out of necessity how to prepare a budget.

These are fundamental life skills, and these are the things that I will be imparting to my children whilst also trying to teach them essential people skills. Afterall, in any business we all deal with people and I think that if you can't do that effectively then you'll always have difficulty acheiving your big picture.

Once again we see people blaming the Education System for not picking up the shortfalls in decent parenting. You have got it right - it is your role as a parent to teach your kids these life skills.

It is my belief that the education system should get back to giving children a good academic education and most importantly teach them how to research and learn.

Schools are not responsible to teach children all their life skills. As parents we are responsible for finacial literacy, childrens health (Who blames schools for today's fat kids and fills their shopping trolley's with crap food?) and areas such as this.

My 2c worth

 

[thefirstbruce]

I'll second that Simon....

 

[vandalic]

Very well said Simon, I also agree.

 

[markpatric]

I would like to say halleluea, I agree but I disagree again, totally.
Schools should teach on a more open learning basis.
Most parents don`t have the skills and pass on the bad habits in life, this has been the problem and school simply compounds the problem by catering only to like minded students, and putting the rest in the corner.
The education system is pretty good though imo, considering nothing is perfect and it`s only quite recent that it has truly been proven ineffective for many and in many areas of study.....it`s pointless, and translates to many wasted years.
I was a shocker at school but I would have immensely enjoyed to study entrepreneurial type subjects.

 

[Simon]

Valid point Mark. Many Parents are not the role model needed by our kids.

My wife was a teacher as was my mum and I know many others both as friends and clients. In general these people are not much more skilled to be teaching financial subjects for the real world than most parents. You will be pressed to find a group of less conservative, "employee" minded people anywhere.

I don't mean to be rude about them - most are wonderful caring people.

But as a group I find them to be about the most risk averse I can think of.

Perhaps a business and financial education should be sought outside the education system? Maybe a service type club?

Small Business Scouts?

IP Cadets?

Boomtime Brownies?

Well maybe not the last....

I am sure there are plenty of retired and financially savvy people who would love to be involved with kids keen to learn from them.

Cheers,

 

[markpatric]

Exactly, schools do not need total reform.
I think in the main, teachers these days are more openminded and now realise the strong willed, questioning, dreamers of the classroom are actually in many cases the ones who acheive incredible dreams, after they leave school.
Introducing a Rich Dad type subjects could be seen as a good step by many but I believe this is not the way to go as it is not a balanced thought process.
Money, money, money is the last thing that needs to be taught in schools.
A more philosophical approach would be better oriented more toward tackling the many different ways to succeed in life, eg take advantage of your disadvantages, or that much success comes through hardship and dealing with self esteem issues.
You can do it type subjects, rather than simply theory based money, accounting or business type meanderings.