flongle - Has anyone used it as an investor?

flongle, a site where banks bid for your business

There is a write up about it in today's Sydney Daily Telegraph P 26

Has anyone used it as an investor?

Thanks
 
I would argue NO bank participates - Wrong distribution channel for them. Some brokers might. A broker isn't paid by the borrower so how do you "save" ??? There is more to loans than the rate.

Just cause its on the internet or you can get an app doesn't mean its good. I reckon Gumtree is crap and is the poormans ebay. Its boguns looking for free/cheap crap. Used it once to giveaway a fridge and wont touch it again. Received ten calls in a hour from people asking how much the fridge was or how much to fix it. One was from Brisbane (I'm Sydney) asking if it can be delivered...(Ad said Free Fridge - suitable for parts only. Suit a tradesman for parts)

Just looked at the website. About Us tells me zip. Its out of date. A start up than may never learn to walk ?? I don't even understand their positioning....They want lenders to register and offer cheap deals that they hope to promote anon then push enquiries to brokers who will pay them ? I dont get it. Why would I pay them to see a broker ??? Its free at present. Is this a social media experiment to find how many people will surrender personal information ??
 
Offtopic

re Paul@PFI's comment, ....gumtree is cra* ...

>>Gumtree is owned by ebay<< since 2005

It makes some sense that they would let gumtree deteriorate - I suspect to encourage people to go to the more profitable ebay site
 
Offtopic

re Paul@PFI's comment, ....gumtree is cra* ...

>>Gumtree is owned by ebay<< since 2005

It makes some sense that they would let gumtree deteriorate - I suspect to encourage people to go to the more profitable ebay site

eBay is a pain in the asss, at least on gumtree you can send a text message with an offer to the seller and 5 minutes later go round and pick it up
 
It's been tried before. Ian Thorpe was involved in a similar business that sunk without a trace about 5 years ago. Seems to me lots of outsiders think loans are like general insurance or similar and they are trying to find ways to use technology to disrupt the mortgage market. Problem as I see it with this business is the type of people who would potentially use it are the same ones who wont pay the upfront fee for it. Nor should they.
 
Gidday GeoffW,

Although I took my first mortgage back in 1987, I've been around the mortgage industry professionally since 2000 and the savings and deals coming from flongle's mortgage contests have surprised even me.

The contest on my screen at the moment has a $627K mortgage. He's on a 4.89% pro-pack with a major so $395 annual fee and overpays @ $4K per month. That means his TIC (Total Individual Cost) assuming an exit 5 years from now is $144,667 in interest, fees and charges.

It's all O/O debt so ideally he wants an offset account, whether you want one for INV or not well...

Anyway, the deal he went with has an offset account, lender is regulated by APRA and the TIC for a 5 year exit, same payment of $4K monthly models to $127,998, so a saving of $16,669, or 11.5%.

The savings come from what lenders and brokers like to call "low customer acquisition cost", the ability to rate for risk and a platform that drives mortgage competition.

The article you linked to is a bit off topic, because it was written while we were still keeping flongle under wraps (the project started in 2010). flongle doesn't charge for seeing brokers, it charges for helping design, host and impartially compare the results of a mortgage contest.

In any given transaction, we have only one customer, the borrower, who pays us for professional, unbiased help and this holds us fully accountable. Both Self Serve and Human Help services come with a money back guarantee which you can also read about at the site. That means that if you've already found the best deal, you'll get peace of mind for free @ flongle... I must say, it does sound like you might have been on the industry site, when I think the one you want is the borrower proposition and guarantee @ flongle.com.au.

There are plenty of innovations rolled into flongle, but for me the most important ones are that flongle is totally unbiased and open market, which means that any lender and any mortgage broker can freely and discretely compete for your mortgage. The only ones that won't either don't know about flongle, or don't want to subject themselves to impartial comparison.

Having said that, we have over 50 members in our bidder community which includes brokers and lenders (bank and non-bank lenders) with ongoing conversations happening to grow this market as far as possible. This is one of the many areas flongle differs from Ian Thorpe's ziggybid which was simply a commission biased online mortgage broker.

flongle genuinely is a world first and third party independent mortgage advisers already use flongle as their tool of choice. These professional advisers only really started to surface once flongle became available because getting reliable lender info without being tied to them commercially was extremely difficult. flongle fixes that. There's still only five of them on the east coast, but that was true for mortgage brokers once too.

Anyhow thank you for the opportunity of setting the record at least a little straighter.

The only comment I find a little disturbing is the comment by CJay which calls our borrowers product.

They're not.

They're people who recognise the value of independent advice, shopping an open market and want to do it with minimal time investment.

Kindest regards,

Michael Lee
Founder - flongle

02 8599 8088

P.S. I have checked our About Us page and it's up to date apart from this year. The baby photos are only meant as a bit of humour.
 
Good Luck Michael Lee, you are going to need it. I dare say you wont be posting on this forum in 2 - 3 years time if not sooner
 
Good luck Michael. I think it is a great idea and meets a need in the market. The contributors on this site can be dominated by brokers who maybe threatened by what you are doing so take their comments with a grain of salt

Gidday GeoffW,

Although I took my first mortgage back in 1987, I've been around the mortgage industry professionally since 2000 and the savings and deals coming from flongle's mortgage contests have surprised even me.

The contest on my screen at the moment has a $627K mortgage. He's on a 4.89% pro-pack with a major so $395 annual fee and overpays @ $4K per month. That means his TIC (Total Individual Cost) assuming an exit 5 years from now is $144,667 in interest, fees and charges.

It's all O/O debt so ideally he wants an offset account, whether you want one for INV or not well...

Anyway, the deal he went with has an offset account, lender is regulated by APRA and the TIC for a 5 year exit, same payment of $4K monthly models to $127,998, so a saving of $16,669, or 11.5%.

The savings come from what lenders and brokers like to call "low customer acquisition cost", the ability to rate for risk and a platform that drives mortgage competition.

The article you linked to is a bit off topic, because it was written while we were still keeping flongle under wraps (the project started in 2010). flongle doesn't charge for seeing brokers, it charges for helping design, host and impartially compare the results of a mortgage contest.

In any given transaction, we have only one customer, the borrower, who pays us for professional, unbiased help and this holds us fully accountable. Both Self Serve and Human Help services come with a money back guarantee which you can also read about at the site. That means that if you've already found the best deal, you'll get peace of mind for free @ flongle... I must say, it does sound like you might have been on the industry site, when I think the one you want is the borrower proposition and guarantee @ flongle.com.au.

There are plenty of innovations rolled into flongle, but for me the most important ones are that flongle is totally unbiased and open market, which means that any lender and any mortgage broker can freely and discretely compete for your mortgage. The only ones that won't either don't know about flongle, or don't want to subject themselves to impartial comparison.

Having said that, we have over 50 members in our bidder community which includes brokers and lenders (bank and non-bank lenders) with ongoing conversations happening to grow this market as far as possible. This is one of the many areas flongle differs from Ian Thorpe's ziggybid which was simply a commission biased online mortgage broker.

flongle genuinely is a world first and third party independent mortgage advisers already use flongle as their tool of choice. These professional advisers only really started to surface once flongle became available because getting reliable lender info without being tied to them commercially was extremely difficult. flongle fixes that. There's still only five of them on the east coast, but that was true for mortgage brokers once too.

Anyhow thank you for the opportunity of setting the record at least a little straighter.

The only comment I find a little disturbing is the comment by CJay which calls our borrowers product.

They're not.

They're people who recognise the value of independent advice, shopping an open market and want to do it with minimal time investment.

Kindest regards,

Michael Lee
Founder - flongle

02 8599 8088

P.S. I have checked our About Us page and it's up to date apart from this year. The baby photos are only meant as a bit of humour.
 
I think it would be very attractive to Time Poor people.

Another advantage I see is only have to supply info ONCE to get responses from multiple lenders

The question I would have is ( if I was going to use the service) , how long does it/would it take to save the upfront cost $400/800 through potentially getting a "better" loan thru this service.

I also guess financial institutions could easily afford to discount the ( initial and trailing ) commissions they normally pay brokers and still be in same position as if loan came to them thru a broker.
 
Flongle is kind of like saying, "I want a hamburger", then 20 different fast food outlets tell you they've got the best hamburger and you choose the best one based on a menu of ingredients and a touched up photo.

You put in some basic parameters and get matched up to product that on a basic level meets those parameters. It doesn't help you choose the best hamburger in the context of your overall diet, it just meets a basic immediate desire to sate your appetite.

@Snoopy I don't see this being even remotely threatening to the average Somersoft broker. I looked into this months ago (purely as lead generation) and decided I didn't want to compete with a bunch of hacks who will essentially be promoting, "The best rate". Many of the brokers here can take a broader view of your overall goals and will work towards a more comprehensive plan to meet those goals via an ongoing relationship, not a one off transaction.

Gill Bates don't expect lenders to discount rates if they're not paying brokers commissions. The didn't discount rates when they cut commissions by 30% in 2008. If lenders don't work with brokers, they still have to pay their own staff salaries and bonus', rent, infrastructure, etc. It doesn't matter which channel you go through there are still costs associated with setting up your loan. The difference with a broker is that we only get paid if the loan proceeds. The guy in the branch or on the help desk gets paid regardless of the outcome (they just might not meet their KPIs and get a bonus).

Lead generation websites have been around almost as long as web pages. They are getting better and more sophisticated, but you don't see the most successful brokers using them.
 
I also guess financial institutions could easily afford to discount the ( initial and trailing ) commissions they normally pay brokers and still be in same position as if loan came to them thru a broker.

thats partially a similar premise made in some books not long ago...................

There is a place for such a service, most of my client base would have trouble availing themselves of such placement services because they are in need of specific structure advice, that a singular lender, or a "lead provider" simply cant provide.......... at this time.

ta
rolf
 
I think I remember reading about Michael Lee and another business of his which was a refund type brokerage where the consumer pays an upfront fee and then gets all commissions rebated or something like that. Lots of different models out there but all loans ending up in the same places!

Some real competition would be good.
 
Don't see the value

I honestly don't see why someone would pay $400 for a service which is available for free...unless they have been declined elsewhere or have some other difficulty in getting a loan approved

A good broker will give you a choice of multiple lenders and show you the full cost comparisons including package fees etc. If they don't, then you're not with a good broker, so try again :)

Unless these guys are offering products not available from the brokers, then I don't see the benefit to the customers...


why pay $400 to be told the potential savings when you can get the info for free?
 
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I think I remember reading about Michael Lee and another business of his which was a refund type brokerage where the consumer pays an upfront fee and then gets all commissions rebated or something like that. Lots of different models out there but all loans ending up in the same places!

Some real competition would be good.

You probably did Marty. I've been working the mortgage industry to get borrower a better shake of the stick since 2000. I introduced Australia's first impartial mortgage broker back in 2004 (no longer independent) and some other important innovations since.

Although I went quiet after my critically acclaimed book (sorry, had to slip that in, it was to build flongle.

This article is a little out of date, but you can learn more about me here (I am an open book): http://www.smh.com.au/money/profile-michael-lee-20111018-1lttl.html

It's probably important to note that although the businesses I built/sold are still around and competing, they aren't the offerings that are winning mortgage contests at flongle.
 
I honestly don't see why someone would pay $400 for a service which is available for free...unless they have been declined elsewhere or have some other difficulty in getting a loan approved

A good broker will give you a choice of multiple lenders and show you the full cost comparisons including package fees etc. If they don't, then you're not with a good broker, so try again :)

Unless these guys are offering products not available from the brokers, then I don't see the benefit to the customers...


why pay $400 to be told the potential savings when you can get the info for free?

Both Fujitsu and Delloite have independently established that despite promoting dozens of lenders, most brokers only deal with 3 or 4. While that in itself should be alarming for borrowers from a trust perspective, the reality for borrowers is you are very likely to miss better deals even amongst your broker's lender panel.

This isn't directly connected to loan structure which some advisers are better at than others, it's about how your deal is shopped and to whom and that's where flongle is radically different.

flongle is open market. As well as mortgage brokers (who regularly respond to mortgage contests with different lenders and pricing because of the 3 or 4 favourites thing), we do have APRA regulated lenders that you can't get through a broker and have responded by discounting their deals (advertised rates etc) to win the business.

Importantly, it isn't true that brokers are free. Brokers don't just get thousands when your loan settles, they have an ongoing cost of up to 0.3% p.a. loaded into your loan and can easily add up to tens of thousands of dollars surprisingly quickly.

Every time you make a monthly repayment, your broker will get their cut - for the life of your loan. Brokers and lenders that rely on them to sell their products make brokers appear free by advertising the same deals, but when push comes to shove if you shop and negotiate the right way, you'll get a way better deal than what is advertised. That's what flongle enables.

flongle also checks for underquoted/misquoted fees (like LMI) and rates, so fiddling the result disappears.

The mortgage contest fee is fully refundable if flongle doesn't do better than you and/your existing broker. So far, no refunds requested and none issued.

On top of all of this, flongle is fully independent of the lender, conducts impartial analysis on all deals (typically 50-85 bids) and but for working for you the borrower to get the most reliable and genuine deal, is totally unbiased.

If you can find a broker who doesn't charge you a brokerage fee and is willing to post right here this simple statement without adding weasel words, I absolutely recommend you have a chat with them instead of or before using flongle. The statement:

My/our service is fully independent of the lender; we/I conduct impartial analysis on all deals; and but for working for you the borrower to get the most reliable and genuine deal, my/our advice and information is reliable totally unbiased.
 
Both Fujitsu and Delloite

If you can find a broker who doesn't charge you a brokerage fee and is willing to post right here this simple statement without adding weasel words, I absolutely recommend you have a chat with them instead of or before using flongle. The statement:

My/our service is fully independent of the lender; we/I conduct impartial analysis on all deals; and but for working for you the borrower to get the most reliable and genuine deal, my/our advice and information is reliable totally unbiased.

Yep I can say this.
 
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