Getting a copy of Loan agreement from Lender.

G

Gill Bates

Situation

Got a loan about 5 years ago from a lender RAMS (now RHG) .
Can not find my copy.
Need to check what was >actually< in the agreement about fees when closing the loan (not early payout)

Anyone had to request a copy of a loan agreement - any fees normally involved .... to retrieve a copy of the document ....
 
SYD said:
Why don't you just ask for a payout figure including any discharge fees?

SYD
Click to expand...

Yes I have done that .... The discharge fees are what I regard as excessive, at almost $2000 to pay out 3x 50K LOC's. I can how see how they would incur such discharge costs...
 
If the $2000 isn't in your loan offer what would you do if they charged it anyway? Would you sue them? Their loan agreements (like most lenders) have a clause in them allowing them to basically change the terms and conditions of the contract. It's RHG they don't care about their public image. It is shithouse but just move on.
 
As Marty indicated - loan docs allow the bank to basically charge what they want esp before the NCCP. You just have to cop it on the chin I'm afraid
 
I'd say that $2000 to get 3 loans out of RHG is a bargin. Even if you wait past any possible 'deffered estalishment fee' period, it'll still cost you around $1200 just in exit processing fees.
 
Marty McDonald said:
If the $2000 isn't in your loan offer what would you do if they charged it anyway? Would you sue them? Their loan agreements (like most lenders) have a clause in them allowing them to basically change the terms and conditions of the contract. It's RHG they don't care about their public image.
Click to expand...

Wouldn't the lender be required to give written notice to any change to their terms and conditions?

SYD
 
I believe banks etc are allowed to charge reasonable fees .. ie their costs .
At the moment am just gathering information. Will ask HG for a copy of my agreement.

( As an aside - I looked at some of my MAB agreements and none of them are complete - all just signed by me - at the time of signing - the bank office has always said ... just sign it, we the bank will sign and date it later ....)
 
Ok just rang up RHG and asked if I could get copies of the 3 loan agreements.
Operator said , yes that is OK, takes 14 days, and their is no charge.

So we shall see what is in the loan documents .....
 
We are fully discharging 3 loans from RHG at the moment. The fees are outlined on the "Authority to discharge" form which should be completed 10 - 14 days prior to the discharge date. It states $695.00 discharge fee per loan and $300 Disbursement Administraion Fee.
So yes you will be up for $2385 in fees like I am. Cheap to get away from RHG if you ask me, our variable rates are still in the 9's:eek:.
 
Hey Marty

Nothing is a 'rip off'.

RAMS lent the borrowers the money way back when and they were most likely the only lender which would.

So if not for RAMS, there would have been no home or no investment property.

It is not the fault of RAMS that the Global Financial Crisis occurred.

RHG had and has an obligation to it's shareholders to do the best it could for them and it has done so, admirably, over the past four years

I spoke to the funds manager of my remaining RHG loan this afternoon. The loan is at 8.93%, and has recently automatically rolled over from 9.22% as a loyalty discount applicable after four years. And I am (for the moment) happy with that. They also indicated that they would be happy to receive my application for equity release for 'any worthwhile purpose'. And I am even happier with that!

Earlier this afternoon, I spoke with my manager at ANZ where I have two commercial loans - 1 x 10.01% and 1 x 9.05%, plus 2 x $187.50 each quarter in loan account keeping fees. My ANZ manager thinks he may be able to 'do something' for me with those loans and will 'get back to me'.

Are these facilities 'rip off'? Hey, not from where I sit. I bought a bank with the ANZ loan and a unit with the RHG loan. The unit has gone from $140,000 to about $325,000 since I have had the loan, and I doubt that I would have got that loan from anywhere else at that time.

In my experience, and without recklessness, but the most successful people I have met across all the years I have been meeting people have always been the people who don't make decisions based on price only

If you want to do a deal and the deal stacks up, then you use whatever material you can to make it happen. If that means paying 10% then you pay 10%

Later, when your circumstances change, and if you can get 7% well so much the better. But at least you did the deal in the first place, and didn't go whimpering off into the sunset crying 'Foul! What rip off merchants! How dare they have money and want to charge me for the use of it!'

I consider it a great privilege for someone to determine that I am worth lending money to. I do not take it for granted and am always grateful for the opportunity that borrowing that money allows me to do.

But hey, what would I know? I must be soft in the head to think that if I want to play with the big kids then I have to play by their rules.

And paying 10.01% to the ANZ Bank for years! And not complaining about it! Yes, definitely, soft in the head!

Cheers
Kristine

But I have a history of soft headed decisions. After all, who would have borrowed at 24.25% in October, 1989 during the Recession We Had To Have? And bought a business with that money? And run that business for five years, eventually buying the freehold as well? And finally, in 1994, selling for a profit?

Nah, I should have said 'what rip off merchants' and saved myself the trouble. 24.25%! Who do they think they are!
 
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I got these loans in 2006 (from RAMS ) or before ( was not that before any GFC?)
I do not recall any such exit fees - mentioned in the documentation I looked at.

There was , however, early exit fees for years 1,2,3 ... I understand that these early exit fees help lenders recover costs - but they do not apply to me ..

The amount that the loans are above the bank rate has *risen* or became wider ... over the years.

I believe there if there is nothing specific in the loan docs that says exit fee is $750, then their charge has to be a "reasonable charge" for processing of the loan exit. If the fee is not mentioned in the loan documentation, my question to RAMS RHG would be ... exactly how is the cost of roughly $1800 consumed to processing the exiting of these loans. .... I do not know .... Maybe it needs 10 hours of accountants work at $200 an hour say ... I can not see how they can just invent fees if it is not their reasonable costs ... otherwise its gouging ... If this information is not provided , then yes I regard RAMS or RHG as a rip off


Yes I have experience with very high rates too. I borrowed money from NAB in June 1990 when their home loan rate was 17%+ Off course commercial rates would have been a few % higher still. The security I provide for this loan is absolutely massive, an easily salable property (less than 1KM from center of Brisbane for total loan of $150K) with a LVR of <25%. I choose RAMS or RHG because of the easy loan approval process - I did not conveniently have all required documents handy..

What triggered all this was notification from RAMS RHG that the rate was being increased to over 9% - I think 9.24% ...

There has been at least one court case over fees, which was settled with a non disclosure
 
Hello Gill

If I recall correctly the $750 fee was introduced early 2008 and borrowers were notified of the amendment to fees by letter

Lenders can, and do, amend their account, management, or discharge fees over the life of the loans. The loan documents have three type of fee - those you will be charged at establishment, those you may be charged during the management of the loan on an event basis eg late fees or extra statement fees, and those you will be charged on completion of the loan but which are unascertainable at time of establishment due simply to the fact that fees thirty years hence are not possible to determine

My previous comments were not directed at you but to the use of the phrase 'rip off'. We pays our money and we takes our chances at anything we do and when circumstances change we can also change our arrangements if we then require something different. As mentioned, I am still paying 4 x $187.50 per annum fees and 10.01% for one of my ANZ loans but I cannot replace that loan and that's just the cost of doing business - of course, if I am offered a reduction of this by ANZ I will be delighted but they are under no obligation to change anything and I respect their decision either way.

Many loans still have the Deferred Establishment Fee or Early Termination Fee payable if the loan is paid out early, and early means any time prior to the completion of the term. Imagine how you would feel if you paid out your loan at 29 years and 11 months and then was charged the full ETF of eg 1.5% of the original loan amount. Yes, some lenders do still have these provisions and it is up to the borrower to be aware of the terms and conditions of their individual loan agreements

Good luck with finding another low doc lender with more user friendly terms and conditions and a lower interest rate

Cheers
Kristine
 
Ah, the loan closure fee - just as all the majors had and still apply a $700 closure fee within 4 years for each loan account if the loan contract was signed prior to the recent legislative changes regarding Deferred Establishment Fees, Early Termination Fees etc - unless the borrower is refinancing internally, ANZ, CBA, Westpac, HomeSide and others still have a contractual right to claim the $700 for each loan closed before the end of the first 4 years.

Political memory is only 7 days. It is easy to forget last week, let alone three years ago.

Gill should be getting the copies of the loan documents any day now, but as I mentioned, to the best of my recollection the increase to the exit fees happened early in 2008, at a time when some of the majors were baying that they would pay RHG customers to refinance to them!

Cheers
Kristine
 
I disagree with almost everything you have said Kristine.

I won't apologise for having borrowers interest at heart. RHG is a ripp off if ever I have seen one. Broken contract with borrowers. The borrowers at the time went with a trusted brand and were duped when WBC bought the biz but not all the loans. Granted the lending landscape has changed and not all borrowers could refinance on much better terms but there would be thousands that could have but decided to wait it out due to the def.

That is the reason early pay out fees had to go along with ASIC's reasonable costs rule coming in. RHG in particular and others conduct has been borderline usury. Did you know Kinghorn tried a back end takeover as the book is increadibly profitable? It was voted down by the institution shareholders..reason money for jam.
 
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RAMS RHG returns $3.3M unconscionable fees

FROM
http://www.smh.com.au/business/rams-rump-returns-3m-in-fees-20120719-22bs5.html

Part of article

Almost 6,500 customers of the rump of the failed RAMS Home Loans business RHG Ltd will share in more than $3.3 million in refunds, following concerns about fees charged on their loans were "unconscionable".

‘‘RHG has reached an agreement with ASIC to address concerns raised by ASIC in respect of fees charged by RHG on certain loans,’’ RHG said in a statement today.

....................

google ASIC RHG finds numerous articles and numerous newspaper articales on this topic


also
http://www.asic.gov.au/asic/asic.nsf/byHeadline/12-169MR%20RHG%20customers%20refunded%20over%20$3.3%20million?opendocument


<SNIP>
 
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