Government selling our schools (warning may contain rant)

[Hoffy]

Oh yeah the government has given their word.

Have they said what educational infrastructure they will spend it on? No.

Have they said how much they are getting from the sales? No.

Have they said how they will spend the money from the sales to make up for the infrastructure lost in the areas where they have closed the schools? No.

What they have said is: "We are selling your schools, but don't worry trust us with the money we are making from it because we'll spend it on education, but just don't ask us about details".

It's like shutting down Sydney airport and the government saying "oh don't worry about it we will spend the profits on transport".

Yeah I don't think I'll be swallowing that any time soon.

Given they aren't yet sold, I don't think it is possible for them to answer those questions. However I suspect if they don't keep their word, emotionally invested people such as yourself will work to expose any deception.

At this stage there is no reason to believe they won't. The reality is that the funds would be a drop in the ocean of the debt levels.

This is just part of the role of a government. The efficient allocation of scarce resources. Business as usual, but a big impact on those directly affected none the less. For most Qlders it won't rate as a big issue.

And no, it is nothing like the analogy you have suggested. Unless there were hundreds of Sydney Airports that is.

 

[sanj]

Labor spends $8mill on a school and are criticised for it.

Liberals are spending over $700million on a football stadium. http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/do-we-really-need-a-new-footy-stadium-20120903-25958.html

What about Liberals excesses? I also have a half finished fire station down the road from me due to their wasteful mismanagement, work resumed a couple of weeks ago after sitting idle for several months.
http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-/breaking/17204201/tradies-owed-for-state-work/

Libs have certainly made mistakes but i hope you realise a new stadium in perth has bipartisan support

 

[Tim86]

Given they aren't yet sold, I don't think it is possible for them to answer those questions. However I suspect if they don't keep their word, emotionally invested people such as yourself will work to expose any deception.

At this stage there is no reason to believe they won't. The reality is that the funds would be a drop in the ocean of the debt levels.

This is just part of the role of a government. The efficient allocation of scarce resources. Business as usual, but a big impact on those directly affected none the less. For most Qlders it won't rate as a big issue.

And no, it is nothing like the analogy you have suggested. Unless there were hundreds of Sydney Airports that is.

There are hundreds of airports. And just like there is only one airport in Syndey and it's a vital piece of infrastructure, there is only one high school in our community and it's a vital piece of infrastructure.

But honestly whichever way you cut it, it doesn't make sense to sell a school that is still necessary. And it's of little consolation for my community if the profits get spent on education, as it's abundantly clear that it won't be spent on education in our community, because there is no where left to spend it, they just shut the last high school down.

 

[handyandy]

That 8 million wasn't for only 300 students. It was for all the future generations to come through that school, which will end up being a lot more than the current 300 kids there. That's the thing that is being missed here, it's a long term investment. One that looks like a complete waste now that it's being sold off in the short term.

You've got to remember this school has already been around for 80 years. So far it's provided schooling for about 5600 kids (average 350 kids per 5 years). Remembering that 80% of these kids are from the lowest quartile of family incomes. These are disadvantaged kids, and it's already being reported that a lot of the kids are going to drop out of school altogether now that their school is being closed and it's too hard to find another one (remember all the others are 30+ mins away and they are full anyway). So lets say that it impacts their potential earnings because they are no longer elligible for university. It's been reported (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-10-...o-earn-one-million-more-over-lifetime/4330506) that not going to university will earn you about $1 000 000 less over your life time. Lets say over an 80 year period another 5600 kids go through the school (of course this is ignoring the growth rate of the school, it will probably be much more than this). Lets say they don't end up going to university now, that's 5600 kids missing out on $1 000 000 over the next 80 years. That's $5 600 000 000 less earnings. Tax on that at 30% is about $1 680 000 000. So that initial $8 000 000 investment in the school only needs 4.7% of it's students to be better educated and go onto university in only the next 2 generations in order for the taxes alone to cover the initial investment. But chances are, providing good education to disadvantaged kids that would otherwise get lost in overcrowded schools, will most likely result in much much more than 4.7% having better chances of higher earnings later on in life.

And all of that doesn't even take into consideration how much educated people contribute more to society rather than uneducated/unemployed people. The cost of sacrificing education for short term gain is monumental.

This is why education is important, not just for the well-being of kids, etc... but for the bottom line for our economy.

You seem to have missed a vital word in the article

Uni graduates likely to earn $1m more over lifetime

Maybe they should re survey including trades. Based on your own assessment of the area and the school most of the kids attending this school were headed for trades.

Obviously the ABC has done another in depth and unbiased review of the facts.

Also, it appears that your immediate area has a catholic school. But maybe that's not as pretty as the school that has just had $8mil invested. Certainly the school you are referring too looks very pretty via Google.

Cheers

 

[INVSTOR]

Libs have certainly made mistakes but i hope you realise a new stadium in perth has bipartisan support

Labor's plans were cheaper though. But more importantly it does worry me that we are losing our schools, Tafe's, and funding has been cut to public schools. My son's primary school's funding has been cut by 34%. It does concern me heaps!

 

[o0o]

Tim did you vote for the Liberal party?

 

[sanj]

Labor's plans were cheaper though. But more importantly it does worry me that we are losing our schools, Tafe's, and funding has been cut to public schools. My son's primary school's funding has been cut by 34%. It does concern me heaps!

i have no idea about your sons primary school but overall $300m MORE is being spent on education this year Vs last. MORE, not less.

funding may have been cut to SOME schools but funding overall has increased not decreased.

 

[INVSTOR]

i have no idea about your sons primary school but overall $300m MORE is being spent on education this year Vs last. MORE, not less.

funding may have been cut to SOME schools but funding overall has increased not decreased.

Funding has decreased for public schools so if what you say is correct where is it going? http://m.perthnow.com.au/news/weste...ssons-on-tuesday/story-fnhocxo3-1226709279201

 

[Tim86]

You seem to have missed a vital word in the article

Uni graduates likely to earn $1m more over lifetime

Maybe they should re survey including trades. Based on your own assessment of the area and the school most of the kids attending this school were headed for trades.

Obviously the ABC has done another in depth and unbiased review of the facts.

Also, it appears that your immediate area has a catholic school. But maybe that's not as pretty as the school that has just had $8mil invested. Certainly the school you are referring too looks very pretty via Google.

Cheers

no not headed for trades. more so headed for benefits.

I did see the religious private school nearby but me and my wife don't want to send our kids to a religious school.

 

[Tim86]

Tim did you vote for the Liberal party?

I was still pretty new to voting at the time of the state election so I got advice from my parents who were Liberal supporters, so I ended up voting for liberals. I won't be ever again.

But I can't complain too much. At least our country doesn't have a completely corrupt political system like the USA. I'm complaining about a school closing, they get to deal with school kids getting mass murdered due to their governments gun policies etc...

We still live in a very lucky country, even if we do still get screwed every now and then.

 

[sanj]

Funding has decreased for public schools so if what you say is correct where is it going? http://m.perthnow.com.au/news/weste...ssons-on-tuesday/story-fnhocxo3-1226709279201

Funding has not decreased to public schools. Pls read the budget, getting your info from the media is a dangerous thing. Funding has increased by $1.2bn over the next 4 years, of which I think $280m or so is this year. I really dont know how I can be any clearer here. Some sectors within education has seen some contracts not renewed but that is the case in every single govt department where more or less money is allocated to different sectors based on internal calcs.

Like I said overall funding is up, not down which indicates a rise in public school funding not a drop. Check out the budget or budget summary for definitive figures.

WA now spends over $15k per student per year

 

[INVSTOR]

Funding has not decreased to public schools. Pls read the budget, getting your info from the media is a dangerous thing. Funding has increased by $1.2bn over the next 4 years, of which I think $280m or so is this year. I really dont know how I can be any clearer here. Some sectors within education has seen some contracts not renewed but that is the case in every single govt department where more or less money is allocated to different sectors based on internal calcs.

Like I said overall funding is up, not down which indicates a rise in public school funding not a drop. Check out the budget or budget summary for definitive figures.

WA now spends over $15k per student per year

I haven't heard from my daughters high school but I've received an email from my son's school saying funding has been cut by $75,000/year. I don't feel it is a positive move. I have never visited the school and seen employees sitting around doing nothing or thought a program was a waste of time and money. The school is also very concerned. Good point, I will ask them if other funding has increased. It is hard to get excited if funding in wealthier suburbs public schools have increased. If you have any links on where the extra funds are going I'd be interested to read.

 

[Scott No Mates]

Now I will get on to a rant:

Sydney had several schools close in the Greiner years. (Now we are short of schools in our area).

The lower north shore has some of the greatest overcrowding of schools in the state (the latest budget has nominated a few new schools in the area).


The original poster - your high school has 300 students - our primary has more than double that number. Is it feasible to have a school that small tying up valuable assets & teaching staff?

Our school (once known as a 'bush school') is to get two storey classrooms due to a lack of space, rising student numbers, increased densities due to development of apartments etc.

One of the other primary schools in our area is the largest primary in the state with around 900 students.

Our smallest school is due to be redeveloped to handle the influx of kids due to all of the new construction.

Willoughby council has a DA for the redevelopment of the TCN9 studios. Not entering into the development arguments but with over 500 units they only expect 28 kids to attend local schools. Yeah right!

Chatswood High is one of the most overcrowded in the state - so the Federal budget covered the construction of a new high school in the area.


In the past, Dept Education did not use the census figures for the calculation of its numbers for demand planning and it could only plan 5 years out (at the absolute maximum due to treasury forward estimates cycle). It has now reformed its methodologies and is looking at future demand tied in to zoning and development, census numbers and projections to give more rigor to their plans.

 

[Aaron_C]

I guess this is why I have to send my future children to a private school.

 

[MTR]

I guess this is why I have to send my future children to a private school.

Your fine, you should make enough money from your developments to cover the next 10 years

 

[Scott No Mates]

I haven't heard from my daughters high school but I've received an email from my son's school saying funding has been cut by $75,000/year. I don't feel it is a positive move. I have never visited the school and seen employees sitting around doing nothing or thought a program was a waste of time and money. The school is also very concerned. Good point, I will ask them if other funding has increased. It is hard to get excited if funding in wealthier suburbs public schools have increased. If you have any links on where the extra funds are going I'd be interested to read.

Are you actively involved in your P&C?

How much fundraising does your P&C do?

What is it going to do to replace the lost funding?

I know that our P&C puts smart boards, air-cond etc in every new classroom. It has paid for rainwater tanks/solar power, cricket nets, covered walkways & paving between classrooms etc.

There is no point whingeing about free education if you are not willing to contribute towards it.

 

[Ausprop]

I am stunned as a result of recently learning that it is standard practice in public schools to appoint a full time teacher's aid to a particular child that suffers from say autism. When did that start? I'm all for inclusions etc but seriously, what is the full costing on a teacher's aid's salary... would have to be $100k? There seems to be general indignation that everyone who wants this resource can't have it. When I refer to reality checks and cost cutting this is exactly what I am referring to

every man and his dog wants to be a teacher's aid these days - the qualifications are low, the hours good because they fit into school times and responsibility low. hence the howls when it is proposed to cull them en masse.

 

[Ideo]

You'd be looking at a max of around 45k PA as a teachers aide.

 

[Ausprop]

You'd be looking at a max of around 45k PA as a teachers aide.

that's just what they get right? I'm talking about full cost

 

[Ideo]

that's just what they get right? I'm talking about full cost

Yep, realised that after, went to find the figures but got distracted as I got a phone call from Council.

My rezoning has been approved. 35 lot subdivision is the next step