GST on unit development

I have bought a investment property with the development potential in 2001 and rented it out until I got the council approvals to built three units. Now I am in the process of building these three units on this property and due to be completed in 2004 August. I need to know the best way to calculate GST, if I decide to sell these units.
Details as follows;

Purchase price $300,000 (Purchased in 2001 April)

Current valuaton of the land(after obtaining the permits) $420,000


Building cost including permits etc $430,000 ( three Units)


Toal Cost for the project $870,000

Anticipating selling price $360,000 (each)
 
I would guess that upon sale you will have a 10% GST payment due 3*360K= 1080K = 108K GST. You development costs which I hope includes GST is $430K of which lets say 10% is GST $43K. You can offset the $108K by the $43K you have already paid leaving an estimate of $55K you will have to pay.

Remember if you dont sell you dont need to pay the $55K! :cool:
 
Last edited:
Hi

You don't mention whether the purchase price included GST or not. Assuming it did not, then you might be eligible touse the margin scheme when you sell which will mean that the GSt you collect will be worked out as:

Sale price (4 x 360,000) = $1,440,000
Less Margin = 300,000

Therefore, Sales price subject to GST = $1,140,000

Therefore GST to be collectedx 1/11 = $103,636

and, as suggested already you may claim back the GST that you spend on builders, subbies and materials etc - say 1/11 of the building costs = $39,090.

You claim the GST back as you pay it each quarter and the GST you collect is when you sell so there are some cashflow advantages along the way.

Dale



setunge said:
I have bought a investment property with the development potential in 2001 and rented it out until I got the council approvals to built three units. Now I am in the process of building these three units on this property and due to be completed in 2004 August. I need to know the best way to calculate GST, if I decide to sell these units.
Details as follows;

Purchase price $300,000 (Purchased in 2001 April)

Current valuaton of the land(after obtaining the permits) $420,000


Building cost including permits etc $430,000 ( three Units)


Toal Cost for the project $870,000

Anticipating selling price $360,000 (each)
 
Hi

The initial BAS would be prepared based on the intention at the time. If that intention changes, then, amended BAS would need to be lodged.

That is an ugly way to do things and likely to attarct attention.

However, if the property is rented for more than 5 years then no GST would be included in the sale price. If the retal period is less than 5 years then GST would still need to be charged.

Believe me, it is not easy and very ugly.

Dale
Apocalypse said:
Would GST apply if setunge were to rent the new units out for a period of time, and then sell them after a certain period?
 
Dale,

Using the same example could you show us what the maths would look like if the units where leased for more than 5 years.

My take is that if setunge decided from the beginning to keep the units for more than 5 yrs he would not be able to claim the $39,090 in building costs but then again he would NOT have to pay the $103,636 in GST on sale of the property either, thus potentially saving $64,500.

Or can he still claim the $39,090 and NOT pay the $103,636, which would make the numbers look really nice... (yeah I know I am dreaming ...)

Cheers,

Nom
 
G'day

Myrtle Cottage has fallen into an haitus because of the intention at the time of purchase being to redevelop the property and to sell when the project was completed.

I claimed GST during the course of the project.

I collected GST from the purchaser of the new vacant land when it was sold.

The renovated property did not realise the price I needed to sell for so it is now rented.

From the time it became 'available for rent' the tax status changed and now expenses are input taxed.

The previous GST accounting holds until the effluxion of five years. If I still own and rent the property at that time then I must adjust the previously claimed GST and obviously refund that back to ATO.

Keep in mind that this would mean adjusting and resubmitting personal Tax Returns for the five years affected by this shift from 100% refund of GST paid on Acquisitions to partial refund at marginal rate for grossed tax included in input taxed Purchases.

If I sell the property within the five years then I have to account for the Purchase / Sale amounts (rental property, input taxed) and the Acquisition / Taxable Supply (creating a new product which attracts GST).

Interestingly, when I sent in the BAS which included the GST paid on the purchase of Meadowgate Drive the ATO rang and asked for copies of the Contract of Sale, the Mortgage documents, the Rates Notices and the GST Tax Invoice issued by the vendor to substantiate my claim that I had paid the tax.

They approved the refund of the GST I paid but it took some weeks to process.

The ATO is much more diligent now than ever before. They are eagle eyed when it comes to these huge volumes of tax money changing hands in the economy.

Just the very thought of adjusting five years of tax returns requires a Bex and a cup of tea!

I have met a number of people whose main business is preparing and lodging BAS each quarter. Perhaps we are all in the wrong business?

Cheers

Kristine
 
HI

If the buildings were leased for more than 5 years, then, the sale will be GST free. However, Setunge would have to repay the $39k that was claimed along the way in the building of the 3 units.

It is messy

Dale

Nominees said:
Dale,

Using the same example could you show us what the maths would look like if the units where leased for more than 5 years.

My take is that if setunge decided from the beginning to keep the units for more than 5 yrs he would not be able to claim the $39,090 in building costs but then again he would NOT have to pay the $103,636 in GST on sale of the property either, thus potentially saving $64,500.

Or can he still claim the $39,090 and NOT pay the $103,636, which would make the numbers look really nice... (yeah I know I am dreaming ...)

Cheers,

Nom
 
Kristine, Dale,

Thanks for you input.

I have been thinking about this a bit more and this is what I have come up with.

From a cash flow perspective, if you are thinking of keeping a property for more than 2 years, it is better NOT to use the margin scheme and claim all the GST you possibly can.

This is best illustrated by an example. Let's say we buy a block of land for $110K and then build a $220K house on it. We could therefore get a $30K refund in GST.

Now if you do this 2 or 3 times you would have an extra $90K available to reinvest.

If the property happens to be rented out for more than 5 years, I would simply repay the $30K to the Gvt. The upside being that I would have had the $30K available for at least 5 years!

To me this is analogous to depreciation. You can claim depreciation every year to minimise your taxable income, and therefore improve cashflow, however whatever depreciation was claimed will be counted as a part of the capital gain when you sell.

Would this work? and do you agree that the margin scheme may not be such a good idea after all (from a cash flow point of view)?

Cheers,

Nom
 
Kristine.. said:
G'day

Myrtle Cottage has fallen into an haitus because of the intention at the time of purchase being to redevelop the property and to sell when the project was completed.

Too right. "Intention at the time" ... my intentions change with time too. That is why I think we are better off claiming as much GST as we can, while we can, and reuse the money to stimulate the economy.

I claimed GST during the course of the project.

I collected GST from the purchaser of the new vacant land when it was sold.

The renovated property did not realise the price I needed to sell for so it is now rented.

From the time it became 'available for rent' the tax status changed and now expenses are input taxed.

I thought things changed when a property is no longer deemed to be a "new property" according to the ATO, and not whether it is rented or not (at least for the first 5 years.)

Actually come to think of it, I am not sure what would happen to the "rent". Would we have to pay GST on that?

The previous GST accounting holds until the effluxion of five years. If I still own and rent the property at that time then I must adjust the previously claimed GST and obviously refund that back to ATO.

Keep in mind that this would mean adjusting and resubmitting personal Tax Returns for the five years affected by this shift from 100% refund of GST paid on Acquisitions to partial refund at marginal rate for grossed tax included in input taxed Purchases.

I don't see why it would affect your personal tax returns as GST is not an income nor is it an expense. (even though in practice it is.)

All I would do (and I may be wrong) is that if a property was rented for more than 5 years I would pay the GST amount on the next BAS statement.

[...]
 
Hi Nominees

Consider this:

The property is bought with the intention of redeveloping / ‘substantially’ renovating thus creating a ‘new’ property.

New or ‘substantially renovated’ residential property is a Taxable Supply on sale and it is the vendor’s responsibility to be registered for GST and to collect the tax on behalf of the Government.

So development / renovation gets under way and the owner claims the GST refunds on their quarterly BAS.

So far, so good.

But for whatever reason, the owner’s intentions change. As soon as the property ‘becomes available’ for rent it is a standard residential property. Residential rent is not a Taxable Supply, so all expenses relating to earning that income are input taxed.

However although the rental is not taxed the agent’s commission is.

This continues for a year or two which stretches into five.

From the time of first signing the contract to buy, five years is now effluxed.

So:

For the first eg twelve months the purchase of the property and the expenses involved in it’s subdivision or substantial renovation were considered Acquisitions and the tax on the acquisitions was cash flow refundable 100%.

For the remainder four years the maintenance and any other capital works, and the income generated from the property was input taxed, in other words Purchases and Sales.

The refund on the input taxed expense depends on the whole income of the taxpayer for that tax year as their marginal rate is not known until the end of the year.

So there are two sets of books happening here.

At the five year mark the original twelve months converts so that all of the project becomes Purchases and Sales.

This means that the Acquisitions, which were ‘net of tax’ as the tax had been refunded through the BAS claim in anticipation of the sale of the ‘Taxable Supply’, now has to be added back to the Purchases which are now considered to be input taxed.

So the capital works now become subject to depreciation which can be adjusted against income for that period

And the GST on, say, the Conveyancing fees, has to be added back to the fees and the fees are now amortized over the five years whereas the original scenario was that the fees were capitalized on sale.

Other Income Tax issues are that eg items that were going to be applied to the capital base on sale may now be considered to be ‘maintenance’ and claimable against the income in the year the expense occurred. However, this expense now includes provision for the GST which was previously refunded.

Say a window latch was bought for $1.10 during the Acquisition / Taxable Supply period.

The $0.10 was claimed at the end of the accounting period and refunded.

The $1.00 was posted to the books as a capital expense.

Electricity was used during renovation and the bill was $220.

The $20 GST was claimed and the $200 capitalized.

Interest during this period is capitalized.

Six months later, the property was rented out.

It is no longer a Taxable Supply, and the provision of rent is a Sale which is not subject to GST.

The usual income / expense accounting requirements apply.

So the electricity for security lighting is now an expense. The whole $220 is offset against the rental income at the end of the financial year.

At the end of the five years if the property is still rented out the original window latch can be accounted for as if the property was rented from the beginning.

So:

Expenses for that year do not show the window latch but capitalized it at $1.00

Expenses should have shown the latch as input taxed gross $1.10.

(For someone with a marginal rate the $0.10 tax refund has now dropped to a marginal tax refund of $0.0485. The taxpayer effectively forfeits the $0.051 balance as indirect GST.

So the taxpayer should go back and lodge adjustments for the income tax payable as the net acquisitions have now become input taxed purchases and this most definitely does affect the PAYG and personal levels of tax.

Multiply the above equation by Factor X to achieve the actual figures and you will see we can be talking serious money.

Shall I go on? Do you get my drift?

This has become a logistical nightmare for small developers. Large developers which sell all the stock would not face this problem, but the almost-professional developer would have to be aware of the changing status of the project / investment during the life of the project.

And what happens if the property is rented for, say, years 2, 3 & 4 and sold before the five year mark? The property moves in and out of the tax systems which operate almost like parallel universes.

Unfortunately, there’s not much the individual can do about this except make sure they keep clear and concise accounting records and make specific note of dates when and if the property changes in status.

And no, I don’t go about looking for work for myself. I just try and get a grip on the situation as it stands and as it may become. Myrtle Cottage has morphed from one tax system to another, so has the medical centre. In fact, I can’t really remember why I bought that in the first place – to renovate and sell or to renovate and rent?

And as for the ‘easy way out’, not registering for GST at all:

If you are doing it once, fair enough, but to buy, renovate, sell as a business then it’s very easy to turnover more than $50,000 in a year which is the registration threshold. In fact, it would be impossible not to.

I collected the GST on the sale of the subdivision because although that made the sale very difficult, there was no way I was going to risk my slim profits by being audited and told that I should have collected the GST from the purchaser and if I didn’t then I would have to pay it.

And yes being registered for GST refunds the GST cash as you go, with any potential GST to be collected on sale coming from those future funds.

Now I really do need that cup of tea and where did I put June’s BAS?


Cheers

Kristine
 
I now have the time to write back and hopefully get to the end of this...

Before I start I need to make clear that I am looking at this from the point of view of a "developer-investor" NOT a builder. (which I think is where Kristine is coming from.)

I have put some thoughts onto a spreadsheet and have attached a screenshot for all of you to have a look at.

Let me explain what you see.

There are two scenarios:
A) Sell within 5 years
B) Sell after 5 years

There are also 2 possibilities:
1) Use the margin scheme
2) Do not use the margin scheme

There is also an example of buying a block of land for $110,000 and building a $220,000 house on it.

Let's look at scenario A) possibility 2) (i.e. Sell within 5 years without using the margin scheme.)

In this case we buy the block of land for $110K and receive $10K back from the Gvt as GST.
We then build a house for $220K and receive back $20K.

From an accounting (MYOB) point of view we enter these figures as "cost of sales" )(NOT expenses). If the property is then rented we make a journal transaction on the 30th of June transferring the $300K from "cost of sale" to "asset".

While the property is rented everything is input taxed. (We don't claim GST on the rental management fees and we don't pay GST on the rent either.)

If the property is then sold 4 years later (after construction) for $440K, we will have to pay 40K in GST to the Gvt.

All is well.

What would happen if we kept the property for more than 5 years (scenario B))?... At the 5 year mark we would pay the $30K back to the Gvt and make a journal transaction so that the property asset is now "330K". When we sell the property for, say, $440K we would not have to pay any GST.

*************

Dale,

Does this sound right to you?

Can you confirm that we would be better off claiming as much GST as we can, when we can, (i.e. it is better NOT to use the margin scheme) since we could use the money up until the 5 year period is up, at which time we would repay the Gvt?

Cheers,

Nom
 

Attachments

  • gst.gif
    gst.gif
    60.4 KB · Views: 101
Hi Nom

You seem to have a fairly reasonable handle on the way it works. You claim the GST, and every cent that you can, when your intention is to sell the property. If you rent it out, you had better have proof that it is for sale or you could face nasty fines.... and remember, the tax office don't like to give GST refunds without asking questions, so, if you do claim the GST then they may be watching you for the sales, or, the amended BAS and your kind offer to repay what you collected.

Care is needed.

Dale
 
Hi Dale,

Thanks for the reply.

so, if you do claim the GST then they may be watching you for the sales, or, the amended BAS and your kind offer to repay what you collected.

I have no problems with that.

The reason why I would like to claim as much GST as I can is that that I can use the money for other developments, which then creates new jobs and boosts the economy. When time comes to sell or if I keep the property for more than 5 years I will repay the Gvt its due, however in the mean time I would have made good use of the money.

You claim the GST, and every cent that you can, when your intention is to sell the property

It is always my intention to sell... but "when" is another question? Maybe in a year or two or perhaps 5 or 10 or 20 ... who knows? (Would the Gvt accept that as an answer?)

If you rent it out, you had better have proof that it is for sale or you could face nasty fines

Could you please expand on that a bit more?

Do you mean the property has to be up for sale even while it is being rented? (I am not sure tenants would be too happy renting a place they know may be sold in a few months time.)
Or having the intention to sell "eventually" good enough?

Thanks,

Nom
 
HI Nom

I think you would be playing a dangerous game.... one I cannot condone.

The rules are relatively simple:

if you plan on selling, then, you can claim back the GST. If you take the property off the market, then, you must pay back that GST immediately in an amended BAS.

If you then sell within the 5 year timeframe, you could claim the GST back again.

Please, don't be too smart.....

Dale
 
Dale,

Much appreciated. That was the last piece of the puzzle . I didn't realise that if we had any intentions of renting the property (even if we were thinking of selling within 5 years) we could not claim the GST.

It all makes good sense now.

Thanks,

Nom

P.S: We have no intensions of out smarting the Gvt... we only try to know the rules and play within those boundaries.
 
Back
Top