Gurus are good

[markpatric]

These breed that run seminars never cease to amaze me how they turn any situation around to thier advantage.
The latest example I seen is how when they have very few participants it is on purpose so you get that one on one type of tutoring , gee whiz they are running out of participants fast!.
Funny how this is not a problem when thier seminars are in demand!, then it is......look how many people attend my seminars!!.

Also the wording......... this is your last chance, don`t you want the knowledge to be financially free?. talk about flogging a dead horse.
Also another strategy to chuckle about is when you read an article on thier company/service only to realise it is an advertisment!!!, they have written themselves how world reknown they are or honest/trustworthy/heroic etc even having the gaul to write it as if written by someone with no vested interest.
The list goes on an on you name it they have a way around it.......how did they become a developer/renovator?, well if like the majority, they have absolutely no credible background they make a joke out of it, how pathetically unsuccessful they were in a totally unrelated field!!!, and hey imagine how well you could do if they are useless!!.

These guys turn swampland into waterfront!, right before your eyes.

Great stuff.

 

[Kennethkohsg]

These guys turn swampland into waterfront!, right before your eyes.

Great stuff.

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Dear Markpatric,

1. I recalled reading the similar skeptcism being expressed about the Goldcoast area some 30 years ago when it was being promoted as one of the future fasting growing city back then, given its past low-lying area which were then very much uindeveloped then.... Look at today's Goldcoast as it continues to grow and emerge as one of the top growing cities in Australia, as these seminar promoters have correctly forecasted, some 30 years ago.

2. I hear the same similar skepticisim being echoed about the Perth property market in Singapore back then, some 5-6 years ago, about Singaporean investors being "misled" to invest in low-lying "swampy" suburb there, until they were similarly proven "wrong" recently by the current Perth property boom. The same investors who have previously complained and openly gruntled about being "misled" in the past, are now telling a different spin to the same story:- about how brave and good foresight they have, about how they correctly anticipated and how astute an investor they have been, by daring to early enter a stagnant property market in Perth back then. They have conveniently failed to make mention and thank the same seminar promoters who have accurately forsaw the present Perth property boom and told them such "vision", back then some 5 years ago.

3. On the other hand, I also continue to read and hear about many "Dad and Mum" investors being "ripped off" by some of the promoters of the wealth creation seminars through property investing, property cycle after property cycle again all over, whether be it 30 years ago, 20 years ago, 10 years ago or even now.

4. Such a nature of Man and of the general property market through the operation of the human greed and fear and the general human herd instinct mentality and social behaviours.

5. So what is the real Moral of the lesson for us to learn here: the same old message and lessons to be learnt again i.e Always do our own independant due diligence first before investing. It is better to listen to ourselves and be self-responsible for our own property investing decisions/actions, rather than to listen and then blame the promoters of the wealth creation seminars for our "poor" investing decision.

6. For your kind update, please.

7. Thank you.

regards,
Kenneth KOH

 

[see_change]

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4. Such a nature of Man and of the general property market through the operation of the human greed and fear and the general human herd instinct mentality and social behaviours.

5. So what is the real Moral of the lesson for us to learn here: the same old message and lessons to be learnt again i.e Always do our own independant due diligence first before investing. It is better to listen to ourselves and be self-responsible for our own property investing decisions/actions, rather than to listen and then blame the promoters of the wealth creation seminars for our "poor" investing decision.


regards,
Kenneth KOH

Kenneth

Spot on

See Change

 

[Simon]

I went to a free seminar the other day which is regularly advertised in our paper. I was the only person there. But that was OK - this always happens when it rains and the people too lazy to come out in the rain are too lazy to be wealthy - unlike me of course. I felt smarter than everyone else in my city.

He started off by explaining that he helped Noel Whittaker write his first book and this seemed to establish his credibility. Then after the scare talk about no pensions, too many of us ageing, job = just over broke etc etc he went onto his wealth creation ideas for us.

The first was a $9000 trading software package for the stockmarket. A very expensive piece of software compared to everything else on the market. But of course he had a special offer if I signed up immediately to reduce it for me.

Then he was kind enough to offer me a spot in his Amway downline. Opportunity of a lifetime and I would be a fool not to take it.

Guess I am a fool.

Noel Whittaker was none too impressed when I asked him about the presenter and asked if he could forward my emails to ASIC as part of his complaint about the use of his name.

Not all Guru's are like this, not in the slightest. But some are v.dodgy I agree.

Guru means teacher. Nothing new there. But when my wife received her visa from the Malaysian Gvt to teach in Malaysia at an International School she thought it very cool to have an impressive looking document pasted in her passport authorising her to be in the country as a Guru.

 

[Kennethkohsg]

Guru means teacher. Nothing new there. But when my wife received her visa from the Malaysian Gvt to teach in Malaysia at an International School she thought it very cool to have an impressive looking document pasted in her passport authorising her to be in the country as a Guru.

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Dear Simon,

Congratulations. I like your "humourous" post.

Cheers,
Kenneth KOH

 

[markpatric]

Yes good points Kenneth but imo any fool could have predicted where the general market would be in a period of time, I did!, many did, it is not rocket science and can only go one way or the other, and I would not heap too much praise on any seminar presenter who got it right, of course they are going to paint a very pretty picture, would they talk the industry down?, of course not.
On the Gold Coast there have and always will be shams, and yes Robina was in fact swampland!, before being transformed into it`s current very livable state, but we would all be rich if we could buy tomorrow at todays prices!.
Most seminars are all shadows and mirrors imo, but the true indication is getting value for your dollar right now, not in ten years time, no-one controls time!.

 

[Kennethkohsg]

Dear Markpatric

1. You say, "... the true indication is getting value for your dollar right now, not in ten years time, no-one controls time!"

2. Well said.

3. I can agree with you now;- simply because I have also learnt to know how exactly to be able to do it for myself presently, at this stage of my property investing journey. Previously, I would not be able to when I start off as a novice investor myself, initially.

4. Having said that, such seminars have been part/instrumental to my own initial investment education process when I did not know where exactly to go until when I was pointed the way to this property investment forum by some of these seminar promoters themselves.

5. Likewise, while I did not really learn much about the property investing in Australia from Robert Kiyosaki, I must confess and acknowledge Robert Kiyosaki's inspiring books for firing up my own passions in property investing and challenging me to dare pursue my passions as a full-time property investor, failing which I would not be where I am today on my own property investing journey.

6. Thus, I still believe that such wealth creation seminars still has its own place in the initial property investment education for both the potential and new investors entering the property market for the first time.

7. However, I also agree and acknowledge that there are some of the seminar promoters who are "shady" and try to make their monies at the expense of their unknowing participants/clients instead of being honest and upfront about their own products which they are marketing.

8. There are always bound to be some "bad apples" in every industry and just because there are some "bad apples" in a aprticular industry, it does not entitle us should write off the whole entire industry, whether be it the wealth creations seminars, RE agencies, financing broking etc etc.

9. To me, the best safeguard, is still always to do our own due diligence before deciding to invest and trusting/belieiving in ourselves more than we trust others.

10. For your kind update, please.

11. Thank you.

regards,
Kenneth KOH

 

[markpatric]

I agree generally books and seminars can help the process but working hard and taking action are more important.
Problem is books and seminars generally are misleading on the most important factor "working hard"!.

 

[Kennethkohsg]

I agree generally books and seminars can help the process but working hard and taking action are more important.
Problem is books and seminars generally are misleading on the most important factor "working hard"!.

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Dear Markpatric,

1, While I understand what you mean and can agree with you to a certain extent, technically speaking, I think it is going to be a rather expensive and painful way of learning directly from our own property investing mistakes by taking actions too soon before the investors are properly being educated regarding the property investing game. I say this from my own personal experience.

2. The chances for an "un-educated" investors making mistakes in the property investing game is much higher as compared to one who has been properly and well-educated regarding this property investing game first.

3. This is especially true for new and beginning investors.

4. Consequently, by spending some time to properly educate themselves first and understand how to effectively play the property investing game successfully, the new investors can minimise the risks of making costly mistakes with their initial property investments.

5. This is exactly the way how I actually go about helping and guiding new investors from Singapore, to invest into the Australian property market successfully by themselves.

6. At times, there are some potential investors who are so keen into investing that they wanted to immediately invest with real monies without any basic understanding of the property investing game, I would normally stop them and ask them to get themselves properly educated about the property investing game first before they are allowed/encouraged to invest with their real monies.

7. Once they are capable of successfully investing by themselves, then taking actions regularly when they can afford to, will subsequently become more important for them, as compared to continuing with their property investment education.

8. For your kind update, please.

9. Thank you.

regards,
Kenneth KOH

 

[markpatric]

Right you need education but it does all come down to time, you need time to get experience, no amount of seminars or books will help the majority of people unless they learn over time and from actually working and doing.
I think it takes many years, it would not be sensible to do a few seminars read a few books and get all hyped up and dive in to property investing because you feel like an expert with all this knowledge.
I have never been to a property seminar which ran for more than an hour, would it be a benefit after all the years investing I have done?, maybe but probably overall no, and I would simply point to the many very experienced around this forum who have commented that they have not added to thier knowledge much at all in ways they thought they would by attending these seminars, they promise new ideas but generally rehash old ones or jump on the latest fad.
Having said this, there is a seminar I will be doing next year in the US as part of a holiday, all going well, it just happens to be a rare one I think will be worthwhile for what I want to acheive and is good value for money.

 

[Kennethkohsg]

Right you need education but it does all come down to time, you need time to get experience, no amount of seminars or books will help the majority of people unless they learn over time and from actually working and doing.
.

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Dear Markpatric,

1. Well said.

2. Learnt from actually working and doing as Theory and Practice sometmes differ.

3. The experience is and can be made less "traumatic" when new investors are being "guided" and "hand-held" by someone experienced and with a good track record, someone whom they can trust so that they could easily relate to what they have learnt theoretically for themselves and to know what to really expect form the cyclical property cycles, how to successfully ride through its roller-coaster ride and see the house prices actually rise and fall in real life/time basis before our own very eyes. Such rides are normally exciting and challenging except when we are riding it down the property/price cycle for the first time without truly realising what is really happening and knowing exactly what to expect next. I have been through this awful ride, myself and I did not quite enjoy the ride it, honestly speaking.

4. Subsequently, I decide to avoid similar awful ride in the same market by selling off the properties in the Goldcoast market in 2003 before it starts to decline and opt to stay invested in the Perth property market instead when the price was coming out from lower base and then rising to its present boom. How exhilirating and enjoyable the ride up the property cycle over the horizon, as the Perth housing market breaks through its new price ceiling, to catch up with the rest of the Eastern property markets.

5. Likewise, I like my new investors to enjoy their first ride and have a positive experience/outcome for their first/ initial few investments into the Australia residential property markets before I try to leave them to learn to invest independantly and successfully on their own.

Cheers,
Kenneth KOH

 

[markpatric]

Smart move Kenneth, selling out of the Gold Coast and moving into the Perth market!.
Do you think the Perth market is nearing it`s peak right now, or as some say is it still a year off?, it is not always an easy thing to judge.
I think Perth is at it`s peak.

 

[Kennethkohsg]

Smart move Kenneth, selling out of the Gold Coast and moving into the Perth market!.
Do you think the Perth market is nearing it`s peak right now, or as some say is it still a year off?, it is not always an easy thing to judge.
I think Perth is at it`s peak.

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Dear Markpatric,

1. This performance for the Rockingham suburb which I am presently investing has been excellent for the past few years and will have another 2 years to go, with reference to the completion of the new A$1.5 billion Perth-Rockingham-Mandurah Railway Line Project, together with several highrise apartment developments taking place at its Rockingham Beach Coastal Road beachfront area and ongoing suburb re-zoning and re-development activities actively taking place.

2. With such underlying major infrastructural and other property developments and favorable timing of the property cycle stage supporting its market at this point in time, the annual capital growth has been tremendous : 40% in 2003, 29.6% in 2004 with its average 5 years annual growth rate on the increase from 11.%p.a to 16.6% p.a.

3. Its growth is thus, considered "atypical" of the normal property cycle though it is partially/largely? supported by it to a certain extent.

4. Because of this "atypical" growth, I am also using "aytpical" investing strategy of "safely" concentrating all my property purchases into this one single surburb, (and this is a one-off practice under certain exceptional factors considerations which I will NOT recommend the new/novice investors to do) instead of spreading out my investments to different suburbs area for safety reasons through diversification, as was conventionally advocated by most of the existing property investing gurus.

5. Once the new Railway Line Project is completed in end 2006/early 2007, I plan to sell off 50% of my existing property portfolio in 2007 and re-invest eslewhere, probably into the Melbourne property market, while holding onto the remaining properties for long term capital growth, in view of the continuing resource boom and immigratrion increase trend in WA.

6. Likely Sydney, I believe that the Melbourne property market has more or less bottomed out this year and is likely to soon commence on its Recovery Phase officially in 2006, and with the Commonwealth Games scheduled to be held in Mebourne in March 2006, as the likely trigger evernt to officially kick-start the recovery phase, it will be another exciting investing ride there over the next few years, following its normal property cycle upwards trend.

7. I agree that it is not always easy to pro-actively judge when exactly is the market peak and market bottom.

8. But as long as we know exactly what we are doing and what to monitor and expect regarding a particular market situation and know how to play the property investing game ourselves, there is still much monies to be made, using timing and the nature of the property cycle to profit ourselves, even though we do/may not know exactly which year and month that the particular property market will/expected to "peak" and "bottomed out".

9. We continually learn from doing personal evaluation and constant review about our previous pro-active "calculated guess"/assessment about a particular property market vis-a-vis its subsequent acutal market performance. In this way, we are continuing to learn more about ourselves, the property cycle, the actual performance of the particular state/suburb property markets, the accuracy and reliability of our own calculated guess/assessment so as to further improve on our own property investing knowledge and skills.

10. Having said this, we must always bear in mind that past performance/market trends do not always neccessarily guarantee its future performance, though most of the time it does generally follow its past property cycle/market trends unless due to some underlying significant change in the market conditions which we may not be fully aware of, the property cycle/market trend start to deviate again.

11. This is exactly the case for the Rockingham suburb back in 2002, which remain largely un-discovered among the local people there when the investment opportunity was first spotted. Fortunately, it has eventually turn out to be a newly discovered "unpolished gem turned diamond" kind of gem -find now and the local people are all starting to rush in and buy into the suburb.

12. To me, the key to this successful investing, is having quality research and conducting our own independant due diligence, including actual personal field trips to the suburb concerned so as to "see"/assess things for ourselves on the ground in order to properly investigate and check out a particular investing opportunity.

13. For your kind update, please.

14. Thank you.

regards,
Kenneth KOH

 

[Kennethkohsg]

Do you think the Perth market is nearing it`s peak right now, or as some say is it still a year off?, it is not always an easy thing to judge.
I think Perth is at it`s peak.

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Dear Markpatric,

1. This is being addressed in another thread, as follows:

a. "WA Still strong.."
http://www.somersoft.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22737&page=3

b. How Will the Perth Property Market Next Develops?
http://www.somersoft.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22592

2. For your kind update, please

3. Thank you.

regards,
Kenneth KOH