Has Linux's time come?

shuggy said:
You sound like you know what you're doing so dunno why you didn't back up his data on an external drive

he lent his external drive (that his Mum paid for) to a mate.....2 months ago...... :rolleyes:

then format his HDD and then reinstall XP? Sounds like there was more to it or else you wouldn't waste 5 hrs when you could have done a fresh install in half the time.
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His hdd had one partition with OS, apps, and data....and we are talking a 250GB partition 96% full. :rolleyes:

Initially I ran the virus trojan software at boot and in safe mode, and got rid of a lot....but several bugs were reinstalling themselves at boot or later...

So I decided to run antivirus and trojan software off another partition or hdd while the infected partition wasn't active...there wasn't another desktop in the house...if there was, I could have pulled his hdd and slaved it in the other and run antivirus.

So I split his one hdd into two partitions, and did a fresh install on the new partition...and booted into that....My thought being there was a chance his original partition was never going to be totally cleaned, so he would need a new install anyways, from which he could access his data. though he would need to reinstall all his cherished apps.

but he didn't have the computer's main cd with mobo and nic drivers....so no network....(which is why I hate doing computer work for non commercial users), so I had to mess around finding drivers from the crap ASUS website using another computer and mess with several before finding the right ones (that took about an hour).

once I had net connection, I downloaded latest antivirus etc. then ran it.

after running it, and cleaning up 20 odd viruses, I then tried to boot into the original partition (i'd made the hdd a multibooter)...I got in a couple of times before the login prompt wouldn't accept passwords and wouldn't let me in whatever I did. I could still get into the new partition though.

I've never struck an issue like that before, and tried all I could to log into windows....but no success. .

I hadn't run a restore or recovery operation on the old partition at that point, and decided a PC shop could do all that. though the shop obviously didn't understand the state of the partitions and didn't resolve the issue.

If his Mum wasn't a very good friend who I owed favours to, once I realized he didn't have drivers, I would have told him to take it to a PC shop.

BTW, this experience highlights why I don't put faith in antivirus software....rather, I rely on regular OS and data partition image backups. Nothing resolves issues like a restore from a clean image backup. I use Terabyte's Bootit and Image for Windows solely. They are extraordinary products. and do failsafe hot OS images.
 
mja said:
Wow. If I gave up every time after hitting a small snag, then I don't know where I'd be today.
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I don't consider corrupting HD multiple times requiring reformat, unsupported routers & other hardware "small snags". I recall you could even damage your monitor if you got the video settings wrong.
I talking about Linux in the mid 90's, and the compatibility issues a few years ago. It was a dog to install, good for learning about the O/S (plenty of lessons there) but not for general use afterwards.

Nowdays its obviously a lot better which is why I said I'll try it again someday.
 
All the computers in my house and my work laptop now run Linux solely barring one Virtual Machine that I use to run Quicken. Linux still has it's issues but for daily use it's fantastic. My wife and kids have no issues with it.

Ubuntu is certainly not the only one worth checking out. Of all the distributions I've tried ubuntu has been the worst with my hardware. Continually failing to recognise and support my display hardware, but that is easily overcome if you know what you're doing.
It's generally considered the best for people coming from Windows.

Personally I run Arch Linux. I would recommend that people willing to learn that are moderately savvy with computers give it a go. It is the complete opposite of Ubuntu. Rather than everything being done for you with Arch you construct the system to be exactly what you desire. It's a fantastic way to learn about Linux and at the end of the very well documented process you will understand the system and how to repair any issues you have with it. The beginners guide is here for anyone wanting to see what is involved.

Linux has more than matured to be a useful desktop operating system.

The thing I find most amusing is that everyone just expects Linux to be a better Windows than Windows is. Linux is not windows. Consequently just because people know windows doesn't mean they know or can easily install Linux and most of where peoples complaints come from is in installation and initial configuration. Windows of course comes pre-installed/configured for 95% of people so you can hardly judge Linux by it's installers. Though many Linux installers these days are also simpler than their Windows equivalents.

Usually any failure with Linux is a failure with the user not accepting that they have to learn a different way to accomplish any given task and that the software (while easy use), doesn't look the same as what they are used to. Once installed I would suggest that for general use Linux far surpasses the perceived usability of Windows and is far more productive as well.

People think Linux is difficult. Here's a great article showing just how hard it is :D

This is a really great read for anyone thinking about trying Linux as an alternative to Windows. It should be mandatory reading.

The advantages of linux over Windows are immense, once you get done with the slight learning curve of using differing software on a fully built and configured machine. Dell is now selling Linux machines in Australia.

As to the earlier discussion of Open Office. Why is it that Open Office is the product that cops all the flack when it can't properly open a closed source, intentionally obfuscated and tightly hidden secret such as the xls file format? The problem lies with Microsoft and their total unwillingness to interoperate with any other platform. Tell me how great a product MS Office is at opening my Linux generated ODF files. Just because the majority use MS Office doesn't make it a good product and as far as I'm aware MS office from 1997 had all the functionality I ever needed from a word processor. I don't need to pay year on year for the latest and greatest of the exact same software with nothing changed but it's appearance (and usually changed for the worst).

I can't express how much more enjoyable my computing experience is now that I use an OS that is focussed on performance, stability, security and functionality, rather than sales.

Not having to deal with the machine slowing over time, getting riddled with malware, adware, virii. The constant upgrade cycle with the promise of bug fixes that never occur and the cost associated. The rubbish MS foist upon the world wouldn't pass the most basic of quality control in any other industry.

I have friends that continually called me to fix their Windows PCs. I'd get 3-4 calls a month when their kids had it infested with viruses. In the end I installed Linux for them. Now I get 2 calls a year and nothing but happiness from them as they can get stuff done without fear of visiting the wrong site, or running the wrong file. I'd hate to actually be scared to visit a web site not knowing what it could do to my computer. Or rather, not knowing what my operating system will allow any given site to do to it.

Popping up a little box saying "Program xyz.exe is about to modify the registry key HKLM/blah/blah/blah", allow or deny?. Does not represent user friendliness to me. How could the average home user ever hope to know enough to answer yes or no accurately to the myriad of technical jargon MS throw at them?

I don't fix any Windows PC's any more and it is such a relief. :) I can only hope that Linux continues to get better. The advances in the last couple of years have been huge and it's momentum doesn't look like slowing. Windows 7 is about to be released. It will certainly be interesting to see how many more people realise that they are being served the same rubbish for the same exorbitant price, yet again.

Cheers,

Arkay.
 
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I agree with a lot of what you say Arkay. I think Microsoft have ripped off the world and computer user.

MS Office is a dog, but there's millions of manhours of learning curve invested in it now by several generations. And anyone taking it on has to appreciate that.

I am a heavy excel user and every day experience its limits in dynamic charting and automation.

When you look at products like gapminder and matlab, and how they manipulate data display, and then you push Excel's solver addin and goal seek, you realize how little the world gets for its money from Microsoft.

IMHO, MS Office should be much better scaled, so that light users aren't charged x hundred dollars to word process and add a few numbers.....but as they demand more from the product, they can upgrade the functions right up to heavy scientific and financial use, and not lose the user skills invested previously.
 
I agree but I'd also rather people learned spreadsheeting and statistical analysis and used the software that suited the task at hand. It sickens me that todays office workers only know word and excel. If you mention the words spreadsheet or wordprocessing to them they probably wouldn't even know what you were talking about. Proprietary formats do nothing but harm the consumer and stifle innovation. It's the concepts that should be learned not the tool used to apply those concepts. Any well written piece of software should be easily usable for the task if you understand the concept. Kids come out of school knowing only Word and Excel. They are no longer taught concepts which I think is very very wrong.

Most people are completely unaware when it comes to Microsoft and the methods they've used to further their business over the years. The progress that the world has been denied by them while impossible to quantify would be extensive.

In your example above where the cost scales with the requirements I think much the same. Except I believe that software should be built upon. There is no reason why last versions software shouldn't form the foundation for future advancement. There comes a time when the base is no longer a saleable item. Only the advancement is. But Microsoft continually throw away the base, and write a new base, incompatible with the previous, for the sole purpose of re-selling that base to the consumer, under the guise of improvement. It's easier to control the market and re-sell the same technology than it is to compete on the merit of their software which, truth be known, they simply are not good at.

Their Media Centre software is a prime example. TV tuners record in mpeg2, a standard data format. In Windows they took that and manipulated it into a format called dvr-ms, for which no tools existed to work with that format, unless they came from MS. After some time people figured out how to work with the format and released tools to let the end user do what they wanted with the video. Shortly thereafter dvr-ms was removed and replaced with .wtv. Again preventing any end user manipulation. The excuse given was that the wtv format provided room for more meta data. Which is a load of rubbish as the software has it's own database to store meta data. It was a classic case of MS limiting the use of the software with proprietary data formats. The same has happened with .doc, .wmv and any other MS invented format. It's all there to restrict what you can do with the machine and to bind you to their upgrade cycle.

This behaviour has been studied by those interested long enough now to be analysed. The term thats surfaced for it is "embrace, extend and extinguish". This in essence is their business model. They take (embrace) a recognised and iso approved standard. They then "extend" the standard via so called improvements, improvements designed to make their version of the standard incompatible with any other version of that standard (this is what they term innovation). The final step is extinguish. Now so completely tied to the new unrecognised "standard" the end user is unable to use any other vendors software with the MS generated files. You're stuck with it (locked in), and the competition merely fades away, unable to compete and write software that works with a standards body recognised format. Anyone who tries to reverse engineer the MS version of the standard is litigated to oblivion. When in actual fact it is MS that has broken the standard to begin with and usually in doing so it ends up riddled with bugs that cause continual failure and frustration for the end user.

As open source improves it really can't be stopped. It is not commercial and it can't be competed against on anything but merit. You can't sue it, can't out market it. Eventually the market will right itself as markets do. It's just a pity that we've had stifled innovation and a lack of real progress for some 25 years now. It's amazing how many times I've heard people ask why a PC slows down over time and then has to be re-installed or upgraded and when it is it still is no better an end user experience despite the supposed advancement in hardware capability.

The extent of their hold over the entire industry should never have been allowed to occur but they certainly do hold the crown for the greatest legal and marketing machine to ever have existed.

The anti virus industry alone is a multi billion dollar industry. One that shouldn't even exist. Hardware OEM's have benefited immensely from the forced upgrade cycle. They've maintained their position by opening the door on the gravy train for anyone that can assist them. The only people that have suffered are the consumers. The cost for every major virus attack runs into the billions. The conficker worm was the latest. It made national news, but in typical fashion it is portrayed as reckless underground hackers causing malicious damage to millions of computers. Thank god the anti virus companies where there to save us! Never once is the quality of the MS software questioned. Never does anyone say "Why can millions of computers be infected by hackers", "Why is Microsoft Windows so easy to compromise?". They come off squeaky clean when they are truly the ones at fault. It's amazing.

Anyway. I could continue this until the cows come home....

Cheers,

Arkay.
 
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Arkay said:
Their Media Centre software is a prime example. TV tuners record in mpeg2, a standard data format. In Windows they took that and manipulated it into a format called dvr-ms, for which no tools existed to work with that format, unless they came from MS. After some time people figured out how to work with the format and released tools to let the end user do what they wanted with the video.
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Great post Arkay :)
The above quote caught my attention as I have just downloaded a GP race from a torrent site in the format of dvr-ms.
I have searched for codecs and upgraded to Media Player 11 but still cannot play it.

Does anyone know where I can get a codec to play this type of file?
Thanks.
 
Hi Arkay,

Comments inline.

Arkay said:
Ubuntu is certainly not the only one worth checking out. Of all the distributions I've tried ubuntu has been the worst with my hardware. Continually failing to recognise and support my display hardware, but that is easily overcome if you know what you're doing.
It's generally considered the best for people coming from Windows.
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There are hundreds of different distributions of Linux. To the uninitiated, Linux is the core of the operating system; a distribution is the software wrapped around it - kind of like the look at feel. They all have the same engine. :)

Personally I run Arch Linux. I would recommend that people willing to learn that are moderately savvy with computers give it a go. It is the complete opposite of Ubuntu. Rather than everything being done for you with Arch you construct the system to be exactly what you desire. It's a fantastic way to learn about Linux and at the end of the very well documented process you will understand the system and how to repair any issues you have with it. The beginners guide is here for anyone wanting to see what is involved.
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I wouldn't recommend this. Most people coming from Windows land really don't care how their OS works. They just want to use it.

I agree - it's a fantastic way of learning something. Another Linux distribution I've used is Gentoo Linux. Gentoo is even more hardcore. You compile everything from scratch, and it takes *hours*. However - you have a custom system that is so unique and cannot possibly be supported by anyone else except maybe the dozen or so developers who wrote the scripts that made the mess.

Since I haven't used arch, I can't comment on it. It looks a lot like slackware from first glance.

I agree with everything else you've written - it's a simple case of you don't know what you don't know... and most people don't know what Linux is. :(
 
WinstonWolfe said:
IMHO, MS Office should be much better scaled, so that light users aren't charged x hundred dollars to word process and add a few numbers.....but as they demand more from the product, they can upgrade the functions right up to heavy scientific and financial use, and not lose the user skills invested previously.
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Use Google Docs. :) This will be a MAJOR contender to MS Office for 95% of its users.

Only a very few people will use more than 80% of the features that Word and Excel has. For the 95% of us who really just want a simple text editor and spreadsheet programme, the Web 2.0 applications out there remove all requirements for anything other than a browser.

Oh, and Google Docs is FREE too.

http://docs.google.com
 
mja said:
Hi Arkay,
I wouldn't recommend this. Most people coming from Windows land really don't care how their OS works. They just want to use it.
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Which is why I said moderately computer savvy and interested in learning. It's not an out of box solution by any means. But it is simple for anyone with an interest in learning and building a custom system. It's like Gentoo without the mess. No compilation. Just installation. After several years with different distros it became home for me. It's not tied to anyone else's way of thinking. It's my OS, just the way I like it :)

By all means for people just after an out of box solution to use instead of Windows I'd go for Ubuntu, Fedora, PCLinuxOS, Mint etc.

Cheers,

Arkay.
 
shuggy said:
Great post Arkay :)
The above quote caught my attention as I have just downloaded a GP race from a torrent site in the format of dvr-ms.
I have searched for codecs and upgraded to Media Player 11 but still cannot play it.

Does anyone know where I can get a codec to play this type of file?
Thanks.
Click to expand...

download vlc its free and plays every format i have ever come across

VLC
 
I've been a long time Linux user for many many years and have just recently installed Fedora 11 - released about a week ago.

Each subsequent release seems to get easier to install and the features, packaging and number of applications that become available seemingly grow on a weekly basis.

I share very much Arkay's sentiments so won't repeat myself.

Linux is my primary desktop here right now with Windows relegated to a Virtual Machine. I do have this machine dual-boot but it's simply to get online and play Call of Duty 4 with the Boys! - Bear in mind Call of Duty works nativley on Linux, it's just the security and client authentication (PunkBuster) that fails the authentication...

My work laptop is Windows - I'm actually part of a team to assist with providing feedback to IT on Windows 7! From our findings, Vista was the biggest hunk-of-junk and was one of the reasons why I aggressivley started moving laptops, desktops and my parents PC's to Linux/Ubuntu. Windows 7 is an improvement, but it doesn't take much to polish crap...
 
Arkay said:
...Their Media Centre software is a prime example. TV tuners record in mpeg2, a standard data format. In Windows they took that and manipulated it into a format called dvr-ms, for which no tools existed to work with that format, unless they came from MS...
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Oh my... Can I just state how much I truly detest dvr-ms! :mad: Why they have to come up with their own format is beyond me. There are so many audio/video containers available with the capability to store enough meta-data till the cows come home... and then they do this....

I've been using ffmpeg on my linux box to convert it to mpg so it's more manageable...
 
imonmyway said:
download vlc its free and plays every format i have ever come across

VLC
Click to expand...

Thanks mate, it works a treat
thumbsup.gif
 
Arkay, that was a great post of yours earlier btw. kudos given.

BTW, I agree whatever program one uses, it is about understanding the concepts of what you are doing. However, that doesn't take away from the benefits of intuitive code or program that allows you to convert that intuition into a result time efficiently.

Here's an example of an xls I've been messing with for a few weeks.
I have never done a programming course or learnt a language. All my vba and excel learning is self taught via uni days and work.

If anyone can say whether google docs or open office can do what this spreadsheet does, I'd be interested. On opening, it will automatically go to the RBA website, fetch the latest interest rate and bond yield data from within two of their spreadsheets (without downloading the complete spreadsheets), then update relevant charts. The charts can then manipulated by scroll bars to selectively display different time periods. The first time you open the spreadsheet, you will get the update links prompt, but a macro turns the prompt off after that. If the RBA website cannot be contacted, the usual excel messages will come up.

BTW, I messed with vba code for hours to try and do this, but couldn't get around a timing issue (using wait command etc)....so resorted to a much simpler but less subtle solution.
 
WinstonWolfe,

Thanks re the kudos. As for the spreadsheet I really couldn't tell you. I'm no expert in either excel or OO. My vbs skills are non existent. I would think there would be an equivalent way of achieving the same result but I can't say if it could all be done inside OpenOffice Calc.

At what point though do you draw the line between a spreedsheeting application and a programming language? The scripting languages available on Linux are far superior to MS offerings so it's probably possible to easily write something to do the same task but it would look entirely different to the excel equivalent.

I think a lot of this interprocess communication amongst MS apps (particularly across the internet), are the cause of much of the security issues Windows has. Some things just shouldn't be allowed to happen and opening and reading data from a remote spreadsheet is one of them I would think. Different if you're scraping html content from a public webpage but something seems off about being able to do what you describe :)

I remember doing a VB6.0 course years and years back and was amazed by what some of the com and dcom objects could do in terms of functionality like this. I was also amazed at the security holes that it produces as a result.

Anyway. Such a complex MS spreadsheet has little chance of running in openoffice. I can't tell you whether it would be possible to replicate the behaviour if you started from scratch in openoffice but I would think it possible with a script that collected data and fed it to openoffice, if it can't be done directly with OO.

Cheers,

Arkay.
 
Arkay said:
WinstonWolfe,

Different if you're scraping html content from a public webpage but something seems off about being able to do what you describe :)

Yes, I agree it seems quite invasive to go inside other people's files and pull data selectively. However, I think that's where internet users need to understand that anything available 'on the net' is publicly available to the world.....doesn't matter whether it is spreadsheet cells or html code. Net users have to realize info on websites is either private or very public.

Further, the RBA and ABS stats are publicly available info paid for by the Aussie taxpayer....and I am sure their servers don't mind selective content download rather than whole files.

I was also amazed at the security holes that it produces as a result.

I think that's where internet protocols need to be tidied up.....like unix's red, orange, and green zones.

but I would think it possible with a script that collected data and fed it to openoffice, if it can't be done directly with OO.

Arkay.
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that's a good point.....suppose what I am doing now is nothing more than script kiddie futzing.
 
Take a look at how desperate they are getting... It's sickening.

http://www.microsoft.com/australia/ie8/competition/

Now the inability for that browser to adhere to iso standard HTML is a selling point for a competition. You can only find it with ie8.. What a joke.

Anyone who does go looking will need the $10k to buy enough antivirus to save them after using an MS browser :D

Cheers,

Arkay.

P.S. Reading the above link now won't reveal anything untoward. MS changed it. Originally it was an outright pathetic attack on firefox reading:

"You'll never find it using old Firefox so get rid of it or get lost", plus other Firefox attacking guff.

Apparently they realised how pathetic they sounded as well and changed it. :rolleyes:
 
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