HELP! Old tenant suddenly extends lease when I already found a new tenant to move in
- Thread starter rodimus
- Start date
I think its easy to blame others when things come undone but unless you look at how you are contributing to these dramas you are doomed to repeat them.
Reading between the lines I assume that although it is your PM's job that you have sourced new tenants without her knowledge. If you do want to take an active part then be honest and at least let your PM know. If you wish to build respect for yourself then you need to operate honesltyu and with ethics.
Given the situation I would just be honest with both the new tenants and the PM. Tell the PM you are sourced your next tenant. Ask her if the exit date is now 100% firm as you will be setting up a new lease aroundn that date. Explain to the PM why you have not left this task to them. Maybe hand the new prospective tenat over to them to do credit checks etc and to manage the dates.
Tell the new tenants that the exisitng tennats will not be moving out until xx date. They will either sign the lease ot not. Don't stress over it.
If you own behaviour is a part of the issue then the problems will follow you from PM to PM. The performance of your PM is at least in part dictated by their relationship to you. It's only human. I asked my PM recently why some of their other properties were still vacant when some of my similar properties just let and their response was " We pull out all stops for you"
Reading between the lines I assume that although it is your PM's job that you have sourced new tenants without her knowledge. If you do want to take an active part then be honest and at least let your PM know. If you wish to build respect for yourself then you need to operate honesltyu and with ethics.
Given the situation I would just be honest with both the new tenants and the PM. Tell the PM you are sourced your next tenant. Ask her if the exit date is now 100% firm as you will be setting up a new lease aroundn that date. Explain to the PM why you have not left this task to them. Maybe hand the new prospective tenat over to them to do credit checks etc and to manage the dates.
Tell the new tenants that the exisitng tennats will not be moving out until xx date. They will either sign the lease ot not. Don't stress over it.
If you own behaviour is a part of the issue then the problems will follow you from PM to PM. The performance of your PM is at least in part dictated by their relationship to you. It's only human. I asked my PM recently why some of their other properties were still vacant when some of my similar properties just let and their response was " We pull out all stops for you"
sounds to me like you are your own worst enemy..
either you let the PM handle everything or YOU take over the duties entirely..........
i feel on initial input from you in the thread your not letting the PM run the show..maybe they are useless, maybe they are tired of you> either way time for decision making,,,either take full control or get a new PM and leave them to do their job without hinderance.
good luck
either you let the PM handle everything or YOU take over the duties entirely..........
i feel on initial input from you in the thread your not letting the PM run the show..maybe they are useless, maybe they are tired of you> either way time for decision making,,,either take full control or get a new PM and leave them to do their job without hinderance.
good luck
I just wanted to say how lovely it is to see you on the forum again, GoAnna! I hope you're back to stay, and feel refreshed from your break.
Just a moment of weakness. I will try to be stronger next time
)I dont agree that if one uses an agent then it should all be left to them. I need to manage all of the people that do work for me, understand as much as I can and make sure we are all going in the same direction (i.e. my direction).
I let professionals do the work for me, but not unsupervised and without direction. Certainly the goals of a PM (to charge fees with as little effort as possible) are not the same as mine (to collect as much rent as possible). They are not opposite positions, but I definitely believe I need to be informed and in control. No need to do it all, but need to be involved.
I see no problem in Rodimus finding his own tenant, however the r/e agent should have been informed.
The worst case situation here is not that bad. An existing tenant stays.
If you want more money then up the rent.
Good luck.
TB
I let professionals do the work for me, but not unsupervised and without direction. Certainly the goals of a PM (to charge fees with as little effort as possible) are not the same as mine (to collect as much rent as possible). They are not opposite positions, but I definitely believe I need to be informed and in control. No need to do it all, but need to be involved.
I see no problem in Rodimus finding his own tenant, however the r/e agent should have been informed.
The worst case situation here is not that bad. An existing tenant stays.
If you want more money then up the rent.
Good luck.
TB
If you are convinced that the market rate is indeed $50 more (rather than a dodgy/desperate private tenant willing to pay more), then you shouldn't have trouble finding a different new tenant at that rate when the existing ones do move out. Your financial loss is only a few hundred dollars if that were the case. Why sweat over such a small thing?
My concept of management is the same as TheBacon's, as I agree with his post.
I'm positively convinced the market is $50pw more than the agents are leasing it for.
Whats happening is this is a small new estates, and after their IP are built, people just give it to their PM to lease it out. The PM usually go "oh this one 2 doors away is renting for $240. The next one is rented for $230". And you go to different agents, the give a different range. Within the mix of agents, I;ve got some wanting to rent it out for $220, some for $240, some for $255. The old agent wanted to advertise it at $230, but I insisted they put $255 instead, and then I got my first tenant at $255. Now they are wanting to advertise for $230 - 255 again.
And because some agents are managing a few properties in that estate, they just stick to the neighbour's rental price.
My IP has a few floor plan extensions to the living room and kitchen, therefore my IP is slightly bigger than my neighbours'. And also it has a more 'open plan'.
What I have done is I have advertised myself on another website, and I got responses mainly from people who are from NZ, Europe, etc. They are happy to pay that price. Luckily for me now, there is no vacancies in that estate, so there is nothing available to compare. So this new tenant I signed in, is a corporate tenant, who is looking for a house to rent for their 2 workers. And they are very happy to pay $285pw, because they expect to rent the place for about 6 months, and then after that extend month to month. So who said it's unachievable?
So for those who keep saying the PM is the expert, stick to them to handle everything, I believe you are taking the passive way out. I think these PM are really not thinking out of the box, all they do is say everything is rented at this price range, this one can't be higher. They are stuck in habitual thinking. Also, a few of the simple things such as transfering the name of the utilities bills to the tenants, that agent did not do it for me, causing me a lot of trouble trying to chase the bill payments from the tenants. It's not my fault, and I shouldn't be doing all that chasing at all. Its just the agent mucking around - not doing their work!
Another example is recruitement agents. When I moved to Sydney 5 years ago, the agents told me my expected salary range can only be $45,000. I was only earning $35,000 in Melbourne, so when I moved to Sydney, they say $45,000 is the tops. Most likely $40,000 they say. Their logic was "you are only making $35k now, you can't make a x% jump to 50k - 55k! Its impossible." But I knew somehow I can get $55,000 at least, and I persisted. Finally one day I found an agent who was able to think out of the square and he said "how much do you want". I said $55k at least". "Thats no problem, we will review your experience and see how" he said. In within a week, I got my $55k job. So if i had listened to those 5 - 6 agents telling me nothing over $45k for me, I would have just stuck to that range and never look up.
Also, the next time I was looking for jobs, I told the agent I wanted $80k above. All of them said impossible. This time they all said with x number of years experience, I can only get $65k as that is what most employers are paying inthe industry. Until I met one friend who said, there is a way to get $80k, that is to change the type of company/industry, while applying my same skills. And I got my $80k. And the next year, I got to $100k, and again all the other expert agents told me I was crazy. So I was earning 100k above, while most of my friends who are in the same field, same experience as me, are still at the $60k range, just because they take whatever they are offered.
I'm positively convinced the market is $50pw more than the agents are leasing it for.
Whats happening is this is a small new estates, and after their IP are built, people just give it to their PM to lease it out. The PM usually go "oh this one 2 doors away is renting for $240. The next one is rented for $230". And you go to different agents, the give a different range. Within the mix of agents, I;ve got some wanting to rent it out for $220, some for $240, some for $255. The old agent wanted to advertise it at $230, but I insisted they put $255 instead, and then I got my first tenant at $255. Now they are wanting to advertise for $230 - 255 again.
And because some agents are managing a few properties in that estate, they just stick to the neighbour's rental price.
My IP has a few floor plan extensions to the living room and kitchen, therefore my IP is slightly bigger than my neighbours'. And also it has a more 'open plan'.
What I have done is I have advertised myself on another website, and I got responses mainly from people who are from NZ, Europe, etc. They are happy to pay that price. Luckily for me now, there is no vacancies in that estate, so there is nothing available to compare. So this new tenant I signed in, is a corporate tenant, who is looking for a house to rent for their 2 workers. And they are very happy to pay $285pw, because they expect to rent the place for about 6 months, and then after that extend month to month. So who said it's unachievable?
So for those who keep saying the PM is the expert, stick to them to handle everything, I believe you are taking the passive way out. I think these PM are really not thinking out of the box, all they do is say everything is rented at this price range, this one can't be higher. They are stuck in habitual thinking. Also, a few of the simple things such as transfering the name of the utilities bills to the tenants, that agent did not do it for me, causing me a lot of trouble trying to chase the bill payments from the tenants. It's not my fault, and I shouldn't be doing all that chasing at all. Its just the agent mucking around - not doing their work!
Another example is recruitement agents. When I moved to Sydney 5 years ago, the agents told me my expected salary range can only be $45,000. I was only earning $35,000 in Melbourne, so when I moved to Sydney, they say $45,000 is the tops. Most likely $40,000 they say. Their logic was "you are only making $35k now, you can't make a x% jump to 50k - 55k! Its impossible." But I knew somehow I can get $55,000 at least, and I persisted. Finally one day I found an agent who was able to think out of the square and he said "how much do you want". I said $55k at least". "Thats no problem, we will review your experience and see how" he said. In within a week, I got my $55k job. So if i had listened to those 5 - 6 agents telling me nothing over $45k for me, I would have just stuck to that range and never look up.
Also, the next time I was looking for jobs, I told the agent I wanted $80k above. All of them said impossible. This time they all said with x number of years experience, I can only get $65k as that is what most employers are paying inthe industry. Until I met one friend who said, there is a way to get $80k, that is to change the type of company/industry, while applying my same skills. And I got my $80k. And the next year, I got to $100k, and again all the other expert agents told me I was crazy. So I was earning 100k above, while most of my friends who are in the same field, same experience as me, are still at the $60k range, just because they take whatever they are offered.
Good for you rodimus...and I take my hat off to you for trying your hardest and getting results.
Now, just sack that PM and do it yourself.....! Just like you ignored the noise with your job..do the same with the IP if you feel so strongly about it...
I stayed with a non-performing agent for way too long and it only got worse....we made the move and since then it's all roses...even after some very challenging scenarios....with knowledge and resolve, we came thru and are happy with self managing. But...you do need the knowledge of managing so don't skimp on knowing the relevant Act for your state etc.....
Good luck!
Now, just sack that PM and do it yourself.....! Just like you ignored the noise with your job..do the same with the IP if you feel so strongly about it...
I stayed with a non-performing agent for way too long and it only got worse....we made the move and since then it's all roses...even after some very challenging scenarios....with knowledge and resolve, we came thru and are happy with self managing. But...you do need the knowledge of managing so don't skimp on knowing the relevant Act for your state etc.....
Good luck!
That's fine, and you may be right. But I think, given your lack of knowledge about managing IPs, your best solution would have been to simply instruct the agent to advertise for $285 (or whatever you wanted). They give you advice as to recommended rent, but it's up to you to tell them what rent you want to ask.
I wouldn't consider that this task falls within the agent's responsibility. You should simply have disconnected the utilities and then the tenant would have to connect them in their name in order to have the services. I've never known a PM to get involved in this process.rodimus said:
I was told by the agent they have a "transfer agent" that does all the transfering for my Utilities Bills if I gave them the provider company name for water, gas, electricity. I wanted to disconnect myself but was advised I didn't have to and they said their Transfer Agent will do it all on my behalf.
Seems like you're going all the way to find excuses for the agent, and putting all the fault onto the Owner here.
Rodimus,
We are not mind readers and can only comment on the information that you provide, as a PM I was thinking the same as ozperp in relation to the invoices based on what you had written; now if you simply stated the full facts ozperp would not have replied and I would not have come to same conclusion.
Sorry
I thought its common for PM's to do that? Thats what the PM told me, "we will handle everything regarding the transfer. That's what we do".
I thought if there are property experts here, someone should have come across something like this?
Sorry im just a bit overwhelmed with posts in this thread saying "this is your responsibility, I dont see how its the agent's fault" or at the other end saying that I'm meddling too much into the PM's job and I shouldnt interfere with the PM etc. It just seemed like many people are pointing the finger at me saying I;m responsible for the agent not doing their job, while on the other hand, I;m interfering with the PM's job. Which is a lot of contradiction to me. If I had not got checked the bills, I might have to pay the tenant's gas, electricity and water bills, and they leave the place with free utilities.
I thought its common for PM's to do that? Thats what the PM told me, "we will handle everything regarding the transfer. That's what we do".
I thought if there are property experts here, someone should have come across something like this?
Sorry im just a bit overwhelmed with posts in this thread saying "this is your responsibility, I dont see how its the agent's fault" or at the other end saying that I'm meddling too much into the PM's job and I shouldnt interfere with the PM etc. It just seemed like many people are pointing the finger at me saying I;m responsible for the agent not doing their job, while on the other hand, I;m interfering with the PM's job. Which is a lot of contradiction to me. If I had not got checked the bills, I might have to pay the tenant's gas, electricity and water bills, and they leave the place with free utilities.
rodimus - I think that there was probably error on both sides, but the truth is it doesn't matter. Your need to find a pm that YOU can feel comfortable dealing with, and be on the level right from the begining. Sit down and discuss what it is you expect from them and what they expect from you and be very clear (write a list and send them a copy if you want). We are looking at pm's at the moment and we have told the one we are thinking of going with that we will be 'high maintainence' and need to be kept informed on 'everything' especially to begin with. Once we are satisfied with how things are going, we will probably withdraw, and can hopefully leave the pm to do their job without interferrence. But to begin with there will definitely be that leave of micromanagement.
I really think the biggest problem here was a lack of communication. You didn't communicate some things that maybe in hindsight you can see would have been in your best interests, and the REA obviously hasn't been communicating with you. Find a PM you can communicate with.
I really think the biggest problem here was a lack of communication. You didn't communicate some things that maybe in hindsight you can see would have been in your best interests, and the REA obviously hasn't been communicating with you. Find a PM you can communicate with.
In regards to invoice re-directions - agents (including me) do this for their landlords when instructed - but the invoices that are redirected are Council Rates, Water Rates & Strata Levies - some landlords elect that they be paid out of the rent collected by the agent, other landlords elect to handle themselves, in regards to electricity, phone and gas the agent would not handle and I would suggest the the Utility companies would not allow this for privacy reasons.
With some councils the agent needs to provide the council with written instruction from the landlord by way of a Council form signed by the Landlord or by a copy of the Managing agency agreement - management agency agreement have a section filled in to what the agent is authorised to do.
I think the problem is a lack of communication between you and your agent, the agent does not know what you are doing or what your plans are because you did not tell him/her.
It is my opinion that you should be instructing the agent what to do (manage the manager),
Tell your agent what you want - tell them you want them to advertise it at $285 per week - tell them that your property is the best property in the estate/street and as such it is worth more, tell your agent that there is a shortage of available rental properties in the area and as such you believe that the $285 per week is achievable.
Be strong - if they don't agree - change
And remember don't sweat the little things - look at the bigger picture.
You should be treating this as a business - the agent is your employee - you need to tell him/her what to do, you also need to tell him/her what you expect and if the agent does not comply the sack him/her and hire someone that will do what you want.
But, you also must be able to work with the agent, to guide the agent in your direction.
All in all I feel that you have lost all respect for your current agent, so you do need to change, and rugrat has the best response to this:
Last edited:
