Heritage - run like hell & object, object!

[HiEquity]

Hi LL

You have my sympathy. The erosion of the rights of property owners over the last few decades has been slow, insidious and near complete (although I'm sure there is still a bit left they could grab). If governments at any level want to protect vegetation, streetscapes or buildings, in my view they should pay for them!

Planning schemes get ever more prescriptive, vegetation controls move from the gum trees to the rose bushes and heritage values move from return verandahs to prestressed concrete boxes. I seriously wonder what we will be able to do with our own properties in another few decades... and whether any govt employees will actually be doing any useful work instead of driving around trying to work out the heritage values of xyz.

Not good!

 

[RumpledElf]

that's almost a story for ACA!

+1

Might get it fixed.

 

[fernfurn]

Have just found this thread and am absolutely stunned to find Strathmore has a heritage overlay. We have been out of the area and interstate for the last 3 years so didnt even know this was going on. I own a large old weatherboard on a huge block which I was planning at some stage in the future to redevelop into 3 (or hopefully 4) townhouses. Even an old weatherboard in this area is worth $800k for which I am getting $420 pw rent, so obviously not advantageous return on investment. I would assume developing is now off the radar, although I did the same thing 6 years ago. What really annoys me is that just about every house in this area has been remodernised outside and in, so it is certainly not a pristine old original suburb just waiting for a complete heritage listing, yet, the last thing on the list of streets included is the whole suburb. What someone said about architects running the heritage listing division would explain why they now want new modern extensions on the old houses, more work for them. I truly believe they are just making work for themselves by increasing the scope of their agenda all the time.

 

[Tuppence]

Because it now has a heritage overlay, the extension has to be "clearly identifiable as a modern extension". Whaaat !!!! So, they applied the heritage overlay becuase we did such a good job in 1992, but now they want me to build a "modern" pile of crap on my lovely old house.

It just makes no sense at all !!!
LL

Same deal in our area. We're in an a group of three streets that all have a heritage overlay.
Our Californian bungalow has one of those 1970s skillion roof extensions. The council's happy for us to knock that down for a new extension - but it has to look modern and different. Reasoning is so that anyone who wants to come along and return the original Californian bungalow to its original condition can identify where that is. Go figure.
On the same logic, we cannot render our already painted brickwork (why on earth would anyone paint brick? But that's another question). We can, however, render the new extension and repaint the brickwork in exactly the same colour as the new render. Councils

 

[RumpledElf]

Should I be glad that our area is extremely mixed? This town used to be very sparse, but the gaps between the 1900's houses have slowly filled in with new houses of every era. They're running out of gaps now, hence all the new subdivisions. They couldn't heritage overlay a large area if they wanted to, they'd have to do houses individually.

My old town is listed as a 'historic' town. All the more recent houses were wood or asbestos as the town had a massive expansion, and when it had a massive collapse all the lightweight houses (and some of the stone ones) were scavenged for materials. Now about 90% of the buildings in the town date to the 1870s-1890s. It looks like time stopped there. Very spooky.

 

[landlubber]

Not just Strathmore ...

Have just found this thread and am absolutely stunned to find Strathmore has a heritage overlay.

That's how it works. You wake up one morning and your property is no longer yours. In that area it's also Moreland ( Google "Moreland heritage overlay" ) !!

Now, they're going after whole suburbs/areas.
LL

 

[landlubber]

Gotcha !

... they'd have to do houses individually.

That's our situation. Just our house, no others around us. Just drive by, like the "look" or whatever ...and bingo. Gotcha !!
LL

 

[landlubber]

Heritage extension rejected..

Today, after a 3 month wait, Whitehorse Council rejected outright our application to build a (small) authentic period extension on our old home. Because of the heritage overlay, we now have to build so that it is "clearly identifiable as a modern extension". This is heritage hypocrisy ! This makes no sense at all ! We need a "smiley face" for "seething with rage and pulling hair out! Grrrrrr !
LL

 

[Amadio]

This is heritage hypocrisy !

How absolutely frustrating. What a council of dimwits. Is there an appeal process?

 

[boods99]

Today, after a 3 month wait, Whitehorse Council rejected outright our application to build a (small) authentic period extension on our old home. Because of the heritage overlay, we now have to build so that it is "clearly identifiable as a modern extension". This is heritage hypocrisy ! This makes no sense at all ! We need a "smiley face" for "seething with rage and pulling hair out! Grrrrrr !
LL

Unfortunately LL, these guidelines are not put in place by council. Council will only approve developments that comply with the Burra Charter. Basically a charter that was put together by various "experts" in the field of conservation of areas of cultural significance. Mainly a bunch of arty farty heritage architects. You think normal architects are uptight b**tards, you should have a chat to a heritage architect...
The problem with these people is that they have no sense of commercialism...they just think all of these rich developers can simply absorb the huge costs associated with developing and/or renovating a heritage site.

The condition of having the addition be clearly identifiable as a modern extension is one of the most complained about issues that I have heard of...it seems to always come up.

Boods

 

[landlubber]

Boods, Thanks for your input. I understand what you say. Since we found out this horrible "has to be modern" thing, I've been researching Burra Charter and the ICOMOS "club" behind all this. What a huge stitch-up it all is. Based on your experience, if you "grease the palm" of one the "heritage" boffins, can they get it through? My next step, as I understand it, is VCAT ?? Do they have anymore common sense?
LL

 

[wylie]

We lived in a California bungalow that was featured in a full page of the paper back in 1932 and (so we were told) was "house of the year" but we cannot find documentation on that. We do have the full page from the feature in the paper.

We did a medium sized renovation and were meticulous to keep it as if it had been done in the 1930s.

There is a similar bungalow near to where we now live. We always admired it and it was very similar to our first house...... until a very well known "heritage" architect drew plans for a second floor extension, using galvanised ripple iron wall cladding and glass as a very definite way of making bloody sure that everyone could see where the original building was, and where the extension was.

I could NOT believe ANY architect could allow such a gracious house to be butchered, let alone a well known heritage architect.

It would certainly stop me from buying it, and the people who bought our lovely bungalow plonked a poxy 1980's second floor extension on top. We would not buy that now either .

Two gorgeous houses ruined.

Meanwhile, many whole blocks of my suburb also have a DCP overlay, but that doesn't stop people taking away pre-war houses .

 

[landlubber]

..... until a very well known "heritage" architect drew plans for a second floor extension, using galvanised ripple iron wall cladding and glass as a very definite way of making bloody sure that everyone could see where the original building was, and where the extension was..

I honestly think they have some "DNA code" that says in a loud voice ...THOU SHALT MAKE A STATEMENT.

Fine, go do it ...Build a Federation Square monstrosity if you gives you your jollies .... but pleeeeease ..not on my lovely old house.

Sad tonight LL

 

[boods99]

I honestly think they have some "DNA code" that says in a loud voice ...THOU SHALT MAKE A STATEMENT.

Fine, go do it ...Build a Federation Square monstrosity if you gives you your jollies ....

and is impossible to build from an engineering point of view! The problem is, they are not the ones bankrolling the whole project

In answer to your other question, it is definately important to get a good heritage architect on your side during the design stage if you want any chance of success...as you could imagine, there are heritage architects and there are heritage architects...
as far as greasing palms go...I have no idea what you're talking about

Boods

 

[landlubber]

Society of Heritage Owners NSW

http://www.sohonsw.com/
I found this outfit on the net recently. They may be able to help with this heritage scourge if you live in NSW.
Just for interest, we're now lodged with VCAT on our battle. We lodged in Sept 2010. We just heard our case may be heard in .... May 2011.
LL

 

[Ms Jade]

AARGH! I feel sick for you LL, i really do. I can only imagine the anxiety you must have been dealing with for months; and it's set to continue. Crossing my fingers for you at VCAT. I assume you'll need to take your own expert in? I just can't imagine that elsewhere in the world they are applying these same rules. It's lunacy. Surely enough Whitehorse residents can get elected to council to overturn the policy?? Boroondara would probably have some of the oldest houses. I wonder if they are planning to list suburbs in there?

 

[landlubber]

Thankyou !

Ms Jade, Thankyou for your support. I think you'll find that most (all??) of the Councils in Australia have adopted the Burra Charter. Certainly most in Victoria. So this scourge can strike anywhere anytime. It's a "divide and conquer" strategy. It ONLY effects those properties with a heritage overally ....and even then, it's ONLY when you try to "do" something (in our case build an ensuite bathroom) that the extent of the madness reveals itself.

Time ? Means nothing to these people. Council replied to our application April 2010. We responded immediately. Three months went by without so much as a phone call. When we finally asked for a progress report , the letter of rejection arrived next day. Now it's the wait for VCAT. May 2011 earliest.

......all this for a bathroom ...that we merely want to build so it blends in with the rest of the house!
LL
PS Council actually, REALLY suggested we consider a skillion roof !!!