Homes officially out of reach for under 35's

A few recent examples of our purchases in Sydney:

absolutely, im not referring to wham bam in the middle of the cbd, im talking about a reasonable distance, one that doesnt take you 3 hours by car or 1 hour by plane to get to

and my definition of decent is neat, not falling apart, hygenic, safe, and pleasant, id be very happy in a 2bdr unit or townhouse that was less then 10yrs old

the term "need" gets used so stupidly these days,

the number of parents I see say "My kids need an ipad for school"

"I need to go to europe at least once a year to work off the stress from work"

what sort of a kid needs an ipad??? ive got one and ive still got no idea what to use it for,
 
As a person within that age group, I think the comments are quite ridiculous.

great example and well done Cimbom.

I think a good part of the problem is that "those who do" just shut up and make it happen ... but with the widespread advent of social media "those that won't" have found themselves an international platform on which to whinge.

Before the internet and social media - the only one who would listen was the barmaid polishing the glasses. Now they have a wide audience who (mistakenly) believes what is being said and it affects their mindset.

As has been said in the past "whether you believe you can, or can't, you are right".
 
Did the title really say "officially out of reach"....?

Typical media these days....just the headline that Lizzie is talking about above. The one that gets attention.

Well Nathan, Cimbom and many many others are "officially within reach".
 
Most posters on Somersoft are in their late thirties or older, and bought into the property market during the early years of the boom. There also seems to be a complete lack of awareness of how prices rises at 7% to 10% per annum will screw up affordability if incomes are rising by 3% to 4%.

And, in this current period, property values are stagnant and/or dipping whilst wages are still going up ... roundabouts and swings.

Bought my first house in 1988 ... 3/1/1 spec home in outer burbs ... for $70,000. No carpet (bare chipboard for years), no curtains (sheets and tacks), no landscaping, driveway at 40degrees (nearly like side of a cliff), furniture was all out of people's basements, dining table was a card table, tv from the inlaws caravan, caught bus to work (1hr each way) - we only had one car for the first 9 years - a night out was going over to the rele's for dinner and drinks.

Oh - and interest rates were 18% and no government handouts.

Sold that house - after major reno (doubled size of house) and landscaping - all done manually by ourselves - in 1997 for $165,000 - so basically no capital gain, after costs, in 9 years.

Don't tell me we didn't sacrifice less than they have to today!

Fast forward to today - step daughter had enough, combined with FHOG, for deposit on 2/1/1 unit in inner/mid area. Chose to upgrade to new car because "her boyfriend had a new car". Sold the car after 12 months for a loss, and blew the money on clothes and going out.
 
In 2003 I bought a 2br apartment to live in Sth Melbourne. It cost ~$310k and i was earning ~$65k. Today , that same apartment would cost in round numbers $600-650k. If I was on $65k today, I couldn't afford it.

So, yes, you are precluded from buying the same thing in Sth Melbourne. Does that housing unaffordable? No, you look at suburbs that you could afford to pay the mortgage on. You don't have to go too far out to find something comparable and decent in price.

Sheesh, inner city Melbourne was deemed as the pits pre-gentrification. You could not sell them. Now they are desirable and people pay premium for them. The City of Port Philip & Stonnington LGA have the highest incomes in Victoria, so you would expect significant increases in these suburbs. And these owners haven't only made their wealth through salaries, but bonuses, profits from own businesses.

The suburbs deemed as the pits today, if chosen wisely will also change.

A 1br renovated flat in Kingsville** (9km from the CBD) sold at auction last week for $204l!!! It could be rented now and be cash flow neutral after tax for someone on a marginal tax rate of 30%. At peak time, it takes 30 minutes to get into the CBD by bus/train. The same time it takes to get into the CBD from Sth Yarra on the tram/bus at peak time!

** OMG its a western suburb! **
 
What sacrifices? I don't think anything we've done (as an example, we're far from the best example too) is extreme. For me, not having to drive to work is a luxury not a sacrifice as I hate long commutes and being stuck in traffic. Last year, we also had a 3 week (slightly delayed) honeymoon in the US.

35 years is a very long time. I don't see how a person, especially one who is 35 now, is not able to have even 1 property. I'm sorry but they're definitely doing something wrong

They are!

They are eating their dessert before their vegetables. :cool:
 
Yes and no.

I'm in that age group and own. But I'm happy renting in the locations I want to live.

There are issues with housing affordability in some areas of Sydney when you look at price rises against wage rises.
 
Ok, how about this one.....

How about this property? It is probably worth $400-410k imo. $20k maximum to renovate to a PPOR standard.

Then you have a fully renovated 2br apartment in Elwood. Yes Elwood baby! Near the Balaclava train station. The Sandringham train from here, takes 22 minutes to get into Flinders Street, not far from the beach and Acland Street.

For fudge sake, if it takes little ol' me 10 minutes to find this on the net, I am flummexed at the diatribe of unaffordability.

Oh, and yes, they started advertising this at $465 and have reduced it already. Price reductions are here and opportunities are slapping people in the face.
 
People under 35 can not afford a house is totally BS. If they want to waste their money on other priorities, then they can not afford a house.
Some may want 4X2 on a big block with swimming pool, close to CBD etc etc with little or no savings.
 
How about this property? It is probably worth $400-410k imo. $20k maximum to renovate to a PPOR standard.

Then you have a fully renovated 2br apartment in Elwood. Yes Elwood baby! Near the Balaclava train station. The Sandringham train from here, takes 22 minutes to get into Flinders Street, not far from the beach and Acland Street.

true, nice find, but will it be good enough for them

- it doesnt have a backyard
- its old
- where is the swimming pool/tennis court
- its not a 3bdr
- its ugly from the outside
- nothign much to gloat about to friends except the postcode
 
true, nice find, but will it be good enough for them

- it doesnt have a backyard
- its old
- where is the swimming pool/tennis court
- its not a 3bdr
- its ugly from the outside
- nothign much to gloat about to friends except the postcode


It's a hell of a lot prettier than our first home. We lived.
 
I think housing is less affordable than it was when I purchased our first home 15 or so years ago, and the primary vehicle for us in growing our wealth has been the boom in property prices during that time, which allowed us to upgrade PPOR 3x without really extending our mortgage. Sure, we worked hard and we made sacrifices etc....... but we were also incredibly "lucky" to be buying and selling homes at the times we have.

Although there are whingers out there, I think its very arrogant to ignore the benefits that we have gained from the boom over the past years. Unfortunately, those coming into the property market now are bearing the brunt of that property boom.

Having said that, I think the FHOG and all the stamp duty benefits were one of the biggest contributors to making housing LESS affordable. I think they pushed up both the prices and the amount people were willing to pay.
the FHOG meant that people didnt have to save as much for a deposit, and spent more than they needed to... and the $500K cut off meant that instead of buying $300K properties, they were pushing themselves up to the maximum they could get.

Thats the problem of the govt trying to intervene to make housing more affordable.... it has a tendency to backfire.
 
If anyone out there thinks housing is unaffordable then, I guess, it is for that person. It is unfortunate that many surrender to lifes challenges and give in to complaining and, even worse, resenting others who have successfully faced the obstacles and risen to greater achievements.

I don't agree with such articles that provide people with justification for their sunken attitudes. How about more inspirational stories of the ones who are are successes - the ones who are progressively realising their worthy ideals.

A little poem I recently stumbled across.

If you think you are beaten, you are;
If you think you dare not, you don't.
If you'd like to win, but think you can't,
It's almost a cinch you won't.

If you think you'll lose, you're lost,
For out in the world we find
Success begins with a fellows will;
It's all in the state of mind.

If you think you're outclassed, you are;
You've got to think high to rise.
You've got to be sure of yourself before
You can ever win a prize.

Life's battles don't always go
To the stronger or faster man;
But soon or late the man who wins
Is the one who thinks he can.
 
There seems to me be basically two different camps among the "young" these days.

1. Your average, say; 20 year old who is enjoying life, spending everything they own on Ipods, Iphones, bali hols, cars too expensive for their income, etc.

2. The upward and motivated studious and professional type, who wanna live in the Cosmopolitan life like on all the ads; cool inner city pad, nifty little brand new car, designer clothes, nightspots etc.

Group 1 - can't afford anything because the banks won't look at them due to no savings history and no deposit.

Group 2 - are looking in entirely the dreamworld locations way before their professional status income would allow it.

The third group are the rare few who can be from either 1 or 2, who save like billy-o, live within their means and manage to not max out a credit card deck and can scrap together a deposit which the bank might like the look of, to use towards a modest first purchase like the young-uns did "back in the old days"..

Doe any of you know anyone like this?

I think it's a shrinking field; I personally don't know of many, and I reckon this would be a good reason why we hear so often and loudly how unaffordable housing is from the majority who are from 1 and 2?
 
How about this property? It is probably worth $400-410k imo. $20k maximum to renovate to a PPOR standard.

Then you have a fully renovated 2br apartment in Elwood. Yes Elwood baby! Near the Balaclava train station. The Sandringham train from here, takes 22 minutes to get into Flinders Street, not far from the beach and Acland Street.

For fudge sake, if it takes little ol' me 10 minutes to find this on the net, I am flummexed at the diatribe of unaffordability.

Oh, and yes, they started advertising this at $465 and have reduced it already. Price reductions are here and opportunities are slapping people in the face.

Maybe I'm way out of touch these days, but I would have thought that Elwood is definitely not a first homebuyer's area.

It's one of those areas that I eluded to in my last post which Group 2 look at all the time, and bleat because it costs $440k+.

They should try moving to somewhere like Clayton, Moorabbin or somewhere way down the ladder like these areas, and get the train or bus to work.
 
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The article below was in The CourierMail today (06 April). What are people's thoughts on this?


I disagree with the article. I believe property is still affordable for someone under 35.


True nature of Australia's housing supply crisis exposed in new report, Homes for All

Melbourne and Perth are building twice the amount of new homes as Sydney is.

Report advises stricter tax regime
Houses cost triple that of 30 years ago
Sydney building supply half that of Melbourne
SEVENTY per cent of under 35s in Sydney will be excluded from the housing market, a UK housing expert says.

The figure makes up part of a new report, Homes for All, which found that Australia's housing market is in crisis, with only half of the supply needed to meet demand.

Co-author Dr Tim Williams says governments need to reconsider tax incentives and policies that encourage investors to push house prices higher.

"Seventy per cent of 35-year-olds and younger cannot afford to buy any kind of home at this point in time, on average," Dr Williams told AAP.

"At the same time we find 22 per cent of Australians own 55 per cent of residential development."

The Homes for All report is an action plan released by the McKell Institute, a new independent body that aims to develop policy ideas and encourage public debate.

It recommends that negative gearing and untaxed capital gains be reconsidered by the government in an effort to drive down house pricing for first-time buyers.

"We've been giving more and more money effectively to people who are in homes," he said.

"We're squeezing younger people out but at the same time we seem to be enabling people to buy two, three and four."

Mr Williams said Australians were building 14,000 to 15,000 homes a year when the figure should be more like 40,000.

"We're way off, tens of thousands behind. No wonder there's a pressure on prices," he said.

He said that about 30 years ago it took three times the median salary to buy a house in Sydney, whereas it now took nine times.

This is a higher ratio than London or New York, the report said.

"We're constraining supply, and shovelling up demand to people who already have money, and making it more difficult for their children to access home ownership," he said.

"No wonder people are staying home at 28; they can't afford to rent, let alone buy."

Dr Williams blamed a lack of supply in Sydney mainly on poor planning processes by the government, making it difficult to get planning approval for new developments.

He said compared to other cities such as Melbourne and Perth, Sydney was producing less than half the number of homes per 10,000 people.

"Sydney produces 43 homes per 10,000 people, while Melbourne produces 103," he said.

The report also cited the "knock on consequences".

"Rents in Sydney are rising four times faster than inflation," Dr Williams said in the report.

"The squeezed middle which used to be able to afford to buy now has to rent, pushing lower income renters to find the fewer remaining cheaper lettings and again further out of Sydney to places with the fewest jobs."

This adds to pressure on public housing waiting lists, with not enough money to house those is need - "let alone build enough new stock".

Dr Williams is advocating good public policy to fix the problem.

NSW Opposition Leader John Robertson said the state was in the grip of a housing affordability crisis.

"It's time for bold thinking and honesty about the supply and demand factors that lock so many people out of housing," he said.

"... No parent wants a society where children are forced to rent for the rest of their lives or be forced interstate, separating them from their grandkids."
*

Meh so boring listening to these interest groups.

Firstly, home ownership is not a right. It is a luxury.

Secondly, many affordable homes are still within reach. They're just a bit far, in less desirable locations, and are built more shabbly. I'm sorry you couldn't afford a 4 bedroom house within 10km of the CBD. That's life.

Lastly, what an unprogressive and irresponsible thing to say - abolish negative gains and reconsider capital gains tax to drive prices down. What are we? Communists? Why go through all this effort if all we want to do is achieve wealth redistribution? Just shoot the rich people and take their money and give it to the poor.
 
First home buyers can live in inner-city locations, they just need to be realistic about what they want. You can't have a 5 bedrooom period home with fancy landscaping but you can afford a nice 2 bedroom apartment in the same area.

Our PPOR, when it's built, will be a 2/1/1 apartment and it is about 6kms from the CBD. When my relatives etc find out that our first home is an apartment they ask "why?". I say why not - I would rather live in an apartment in a location that I like and is convenient to me than pay through the nose for a big house in the middle of nowhere which would be the alternative at this time in my life.

When I can afford a house in the same suburb, I will consider it but as an 800k house is a bit out of reach at this stage, I will happily live in an apartment. Most people in the "renowned" cities of the world like Rome, Paris, NY, etc do so I am sure it's manageable. I have no complaints so far.
 
Well done Cimbom

We have spent the day discussing this topic with our 23 year old who still lives with us. I agree that one can move into an inner city townhouse or apartment that is affordable. He is concerned about being able to afford his own place in the future, but agrees that there is nothing wrong with following European housing models and renting inner rather than buying outer.

In Brisbane it costs the same to rent a family home 25 klms out as it does to rent a 1 or 2 bedroom within 4 klms of the CBD. Different horses for courses. Both our Gen Ys appreciate the beauty of living in a Kelvin Grove Urban Village, Southbank or West End apartment, which didnt exist when we were their age. These same places were mostly derelict warehouses still renching with stale mud from the '74 floods!
 
Surely forum members take these articles with a grain of salt? Up there with the same style of investigative journalism as featured on TT/ACA

We've had examples on this very thread on how properties are indeed affordable and examples of Gen Y's who are buying PPORs and IPs.

We have had countless threads of 'young investors' or older forumites giving examples of their children getting in to the housing game.

I fall under 'Gen Y' and most of my Gen Y friends, relatives, co-workers, mothers group, hairdresser, acquaintances etc., are paying off a mortgage on either their PPOR and/or IPs

They all come from a wide range of backgrounds too. Am I living in a parallel universe to the Gen Ys you know?

OK - the Gen Ys I know, might not all be financially savvy about investing for their future, but a large proportion are still chipping away at getting their slice of the australian dream.

Thoughts?

Thanks
 
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