How do we know

[roe]

I would rescind the second offer, take it or leave it.
I had a similar thing happen with my PPOR. made an offer, got accepted, next morning agent tells me there is a higher offer, I told him they could have it,
strangely enough the second offer disappeared.

James

Same thing happen when I bought my first PPOR, said there is another buyer would I up my offer, I said sorry that is my limit and I wish the higher buyer well for getting a nice home...agent came back with something about the other buyer haven't got pre-approval and I can have the place.

almost all good sale agents has training in negotiation tactics and human finance behaviour so they can read you for who you are... a person with training can run circle around the in-experience player blind fold ...

I have similar experience so I have counter tactics...for every negotiations and tactics there are counter tactics that you throw back. Agent will pick up these counter tactics and they know they cant play you

...because they too know the counter tactics and they know they dealing with someone who has similar experience.

 

[Perp]

Can you ask to see the other offer, with the confidential parts (names) blocked out or covered?

I wouldn't do this as I think it makes you look amateur, like you're still not sure if you've been played or not.

If the agent's going to lie about the existence of another offer, knocking up a cover sheet with blacked out name and address - they could rightly argue that address is also subject to privacy law - is child's play. How would you have any confidence it was legitimate? And what would be the point even if it was, given that it's been withdrawn?

I'd proceed decisively on the assumption that you have been played, but with no ill-will, just with the demeanour of a professional player who knows it's part of the game, and is confident of their next move.

 

[roe]

+1 agree

you can counter these tactics with these, always have a few properties you move to and make sure they know that...and do really have a few, you are in better bargaining position.

that way you throw back Fear of Missing out to the agent, ***** he got a few properties, I can't seal this deal someone else will have him..

ALWAYS a reluctant buyer, never ever show that you are committed and have personal emotion attachment...even if you like the place so much, don't let it show.

once you show emotion and attachment to the place you are a goner.

most people take their kids and their parents to see the place and everyone go wow nice and the kids jump up and down...you are finished, you have very little bargaining power when you don't have control over your family emotions...

its a big financial transaction leave them at home, they can go WOW jump up and down once the deal is sealed..

Here is some true stories back long ago...when color TV first came out, they are expensive but everyone wants one but they dont get many sales ...so what do smart sale people do...they played your emotions....they say take it home, leave it in your living room for one month and if you don't like it take it back no question ask.

once taken home, the family go WOW, the neighbour came over and watch and said wow
and the family start to get attached...to cut to the chase ....guess what? most never return and pay up...

Other tactics are higher authority tactics, great for buying cars ..I get thousands and thousands discount on car because I can played the in-experience car sale man.

and for these to work, you must always prepare to walk away from the deal, don't bluff and buff and you still end up sealing the deal...this is not a good tatic...

 

[Scott No Mates]

Definitely been played here Elke. If the other player was legitimate why when they pulled the pin would the agent of their own volition only put forward half of your offer (obligation to pass all offers to the vendors), lose some kudos with the vendors and some of their pitiful comms when it was already in the bag?

If you have the nerve to risk losing the property, play hardball as agent has now lost the weekend, play the game and hold back for a few days and let them chase.

 

[travelbug]

haha roe- reminds me of when I took my mum car shopping. I said don't commit etc. Just give me the nod if you like it and I'll do the talking.

We went to the car yard, she got in a car, jumped out and asked the price and said "I love it, I'll take it".

 

[Perp]

haha roe- reminds me of when I took my mum car shopping. I said don't commit etc. Just give me the nod if you like it and I'll do the talking.

We went to the car yard, she got in a car, jumped out and asked the price and said "I love it, I'll take it".

Bahahahaha! I hope you tease her mercilessly about it.

 

[roe]

haha roe- reminds me of when I took my mum car shopping. I said don't commit etc. Just give me the nod if you like it and I'll do the talking.

We went to the car yard, she got in a car, jumped out and asked the price and said "I love it, I'll take it".

hahaha your mum is no diff from majority of the population unless you have training in these arts

ok here one out of the bags for you folks

Here is how you should buy cars and get big discount...but remember don't get attached ...always willing to walk away..don't bluff and sign up...it may not work the first time but it will work second or third..

just you go and no one else can come along...

if they want to scout the car before hand and know what they want let them do that, not on the same day with you..

go to car yard, show them you interested negotiate a good deal first but don't commit on the day, they always try to get you committed, don't, make up some excuse big decision, lot of money I got to think about it, have to consult with the wife.

ring them back the next day, said I AM happy with the price BUT the wife said
NO too much money, is there anything you can do to ease her unhappiness..

they blah blah nah cant do any better....you say hang on a minute I talk to my wife you came back and said wife said no too much money, no deal..

at this stage they either lower the price more or they ask to talk to the wife.
prep your wife before hand and said no no no until they agree to lower more.

agent feel deal is slipping away....they give another final good discount
deal seal massive discount ....twice..first time at car yard...second on the phone.

some know you played them and play counter the tactic and said I got to talk to my boss, I cant give discount without his approval, they play higher authority vs higher authority

you counter again with stone walling tactic and said you do that, talk to your boss at XXX price or no deal and they don't agree WALK, next dealer ....sometimes they come back next day and seal the deal...

 

[Perp]

ok here one out of the bags for you folks

roe, the "appeal to authority" is a pretty basic negotiating tactic and one I would have thought every car salesman was very familiar with. It's precisely why every car salesman I've ever dealt with confirms that you have authority to buy before taking you for a test drive.

 

[roe]

roe, the "appeal to authority" is a pretty basic negotiating tactic and one I would have thought every car salesman was very familiar with. It's precisely why every car salesman I've ever dealt with confirms that you have authority to buy before taking you for a test drive.

that why you always willing to walk away, you know they are getting a margin obviously less with someone like me, but get a sale is better than no sale.

as long as the price make them some sort of profit they will seal the deal ..

put yourself in your shoe? would you seal the deal if it make some profit
or let it go...I seal the deal....

cars are commodity, there are hundred of card yard selling the same stuff
someone will do the deal if there is some profit, it is not if it is when...

 

[Elke]

We cd:
1. Leave as is so we get it but put a clause 'subject to bank valuation' so if it comes in lower we can withdraw or revise offer
2. Write that we withdraw offer and refresh lower offer. Agent will then say he will contact the other party who withdrew and let them know.
Or that there's been others.

We then say fine you have it.

But: even at the price we have it, it is reasonable even after factoring in$$$ for work.
We're not wanting to walk away, we've been looking for a while, it's a good price, size, outlook, aspect; it has scope to make a granny flat.

We need to think of some strategies to call his bluff.

Withdraw, say we've found something else..

 

[DaveM]

ok here one out of the bags for you folks

Here is how you should buy cars and get big discount...

Car dealers have seen that same game from punters day in day out for years, they play along with the purchaser playing the "oh my wife said too much" etc game and know they will get a sale when the price is right. Meanwhile the punter feels like they are a negotiating champion because they got the car salesman down from RRP to a few grannd under RRP.

Its negotiation tactic psychology 101. Make the buyer feel like a winner even when they are the loser.

 

[Elke]

hahaha your mum is no diff from majority of the population unless you have training in these arts

ok here one out of the bags for you folks

Here is how you should buy cars and get big discount...but remember don't get attached ...always willing to walk away..don't bluff and sign up...it may not work the first time but it will work second or third..

just you go and no one else can come along...

if they want to scout the car before hand and know what they want let them do that, not on the same day with you..

go to car yard, show them you interested negotiate a good deal first but don't commit on the day, they always try to get you committed, don't, make up some excuse big decision, lot of money I got to think about it, have to consult with the wife.

ring them back the next day, said I AM happy with the price BUT the wife said
NO too much money, is there anything you can do to ease her unhappiness..

they blah blah nah cant do any better....you say hang on a minute I talk to my wife you came back and said wife said no too much money, no deal..

at this stage they either lower the price more or they ask to talk to the wife.
prep your wife before hand and said no no no until they agree to lower more.

agent feel deal is slipping away....they give another final good discount
deal seal massive discount ....twice..first time at car yard...second on the phone.

some know you played them and play counter the tactic and said I got to talk to my boss, I cant give discount without his approval, they play higher authority vs higher authority

you counter again with stone walling tactic and said you do that, talk to your boss at XXX price or no deal and they don't agree WALK, next dealer ....sometimes they come back next day and seal the deal...

You give good ideas, ta. We haven't been strategic to this point. If its still a reasonable price tho wd you play to go lower if u want the house?

 

[Elke]

Car dealers have seen that same game from punters day in day out for years, they play along with the purchaser playing the "oh my wife said too much" etc game and know they will get a sale when the price is right. Meanwhile the punter feels like they are a negotiating champion because they got the car salesman down from RRP to a few grannd under RRP.

Its negotiation tactic psychology 101. Make the buyer feel like a winner even when they are the loser.

Amazing how many of us forget it though when it comes to the moment--- i speak for myself! do you have other tactics to suggest? Wed like to get it and at a lower price: how ??? Ta all ideas welcome.

 

[Elke]

Definitely been played here Elke. If the other player was legitimate why when they pulled the pin would the agent of their own volition only put forward half of your offer (obligation to pass all offers to the vendors), lose some kudos with the vendors and some of their pitiful comms when it was already in the bag?

If you have the nerve to risk losing the property, play hardball as agent has now lost the weekend, play the game and hold back for a few days and let them chase.

Hiya Scott
I'm a beginner (isn't that clear LOL) -- what do you mean by 'he lost the weekend'? How has he? Vendors solicitor has apparently sent contract but we haven't signed anything.

Any ideas on escape clauses in contract?
So far subject to
1 bank val
2 our subjective assessment of the quotes for cost of critical maintenance works

 

[sanj]

I think some people are getting too caught up in the ego of it all and the importance of being the best negotiator.

The most important thing here is:

- how much do you want the property
- how much do you think it's worth

If you really want the property and in fact think that it may be either fair market value or in fact underpriced then does it matter that the agent made you pay another 10k?

 

[Perp]

What sanj said. The problem doesn't appear to be one of strategy, but of you not having clear enough objectives regarding what you want.

You can't have 100% certainty of securing the property plus lowest price plus escape conditions.

You have to decide how you weigh all these things by having clear answers to these questions:

* at what price would I rather let the property go than pay that much?
* do I need the escape clauses? If essential (e.g. risk of being unable to complete if not met), then be aware you can't have the property for bottom $. If not essential, how much more would you be willing to pay to have them rather than not have them?

 

[cu@thetop]

Went to a house yesterday- 2 lots but prev flood affected. Asking price 550k - a bit high given the comparatives. I know this agent is in with the developers around the place so I asked her why "Brad" (local builder/developer who gets all the old lady 2 lot sales from her and lists the 2 mcmansions with her when he sells) wasn't buying them. Funny to watch the reaction.
She told me confidently that the price was right and that a Sydney investor/buyer had already made an offer. I told her she would be stupid to let him go and she should try and stitch him up at the 550 mark.

There are always other houses so don't fall in love with this one.

When an agent tries the other buyer routine I immediately step back and say "I can't compete against them- they saw it first so its only fair they should get it" or some such tripe. I then wait a week or so. If it is under contract well then there was another buyer and I've probably sidestepped a bidding war.

If still on the market I re-approach the agent:
What happened to the other buyer? I thought they were keen on it/making an offer/etc?
What did they find that made them change their mind?
I may make another offer but it will be less to factor in the unknown seeing one buyer has already pulled out.

Make it a game. Have some fun. You may even score a bargain.

 

[jameso]

If I were in your shoes I'd call him monday and tell him your back to your original offer, you have crunched the numbers over the weekend and it no longer presents a viable purchase to you. let him know you offer expires tuesday at 3pm as you have other properties you wish to place offers on.

be blunt and straight to the point, Its a gamble, I would do it.

20k will go along way in reno's or deposit for next IP.

James

 

[CHAOS]

We were given the 'there is another offer' earlier this year. And it was above the asking price. We still do not know if that offer was real or not - I suspect it didn't exist - was told the other interested party had given their one and only offer. But we played anyway.
We worked out what we were prepared to pay to secure the property. A little bit of friendly chit chat and we were able to get an indication of what our offer needed to be. Were we played? - probably. BUT we also paid 5k less than we were prepared to- and 1500 more than the 'other' offer.

 

[wylie]

When my parents house didn't sell at auction (about nine years ago) there was a contract put on by a purchaser within a few days. I think it was someone who didn't bid at the auction but not sure on this.

The same night a second contract came in for the same price. I know the agent told the second buyers that there was an offer on the table. I know the agent well, and there is no way she would have indicated to either buyer what price the other offer was. I'm fairly sure they didn't believe her. They had an opportunity to put in a higher offer but chose not to. I still think they thought it was a bluff.

Mum and Dad accepted the first offer for a few reasons. They were both cash, both the same price, but they had met the first purchaser and liked him, so felt they would accept his offer.

Had the second interested party come up they would (I guess) have accepted the higher offer, but who knows?

What I do know is that the second buyer "may" have missed out on going even $1K or $5K higher and have kicked themselves. They also may have set themselves a limit, and perhaps they were happy to lose the house for the sake of even $1K more, but I do recall the agent saying she knew they thought she was bluffing.

They stuck to their guns and missed the house. I suspect they thought her next call would be "the first offer has fallen through" whereas her next call to them would have been "you've missed out".

That's why I would just caution that you have to be sure it is a bluff, or be prepared to miss the house.