I heard it on the grape vine....
- Thread starter see_change
- Start date
TheBacon said:
No problem, perhaps I should post at a 4th grade reading level for you. Which word was too big for you and which words did you not understand ?
Hey Saucy - no offence meant mate. Also, low blow caling someone a corporate communications person... apologies 
"Personal reasons", "time restraints" and "various factors" dont provide a lot of information - but they sound good.
Maybe type a bit slower - I dont read so fast...
TB
"Personal reasons", "time restraints" and "various factors" dont provide a lot of information - but they sound good.
saucy gibbon said:
Maybe type a bit slower - I dont read so fast...
TB
see_change said:
Seech
You really seem to have an axe to grind with Steve.
If you don't like tax products, that's fine - don't use them. But patience is a virtue
so why don't we all just have some and wait to read the PDS instead of letting the rumour mill spin out sly innuendo and passive agressive questioning...that "shock horror" someone might want to rely on financial advice from a person who the law says can give that advice... (I'm not trying to defend all financial planners here - sure there are some real shonks...but then there's dodgy doctors and plumbers too)It seems to me that there's something of a double standard being applied in relation to the various advisers who post or have posted on this forum. What I gather you're saying is that you think Steve has derived a benefit from doing so without having "given back" to the S/Soft community.
Let's take an objective look shall we:
Peter Spann - post count 228
Michael Yardney - post count 807
Dale Gatherum-Goss - post count 2,734 (whoa!)
Steve Navra - post count 994
Surely in the nearly 1000 posts of Steve's that remain there's some value?
Peter and Michael advertise on this forum with impunity. (Maybe we're all happy to cut Peter some slack because of that cherubic avatar...
) Yet any mention of anything Navra related seems to get everyone all hissy.Seech, just because you're able to develop and trade your own direct share system doesn't mean that everyone else has the smarts, time and inclination to do so... For those people, managed funds and the advice of qualified financial advisers is helpful. Particularly for people on this property forum there is value in using funds to free them up to focus on what they do best - property. Please don't be condescending to those who aren't as advanced along the investment skill road as you and feel the need to take some financial advice. I know you're better than that.
Cheers
N.
NigelW said:
As I understand it Nigel, at Steve's request certain elements of the of content of those 994 posts was removed at roughly the same time InvestEd was launched.
Apparently Steve saw more value in making them pay-per-view than he did in sharing with the somersoft community.
That being the case, didn't he take away?
Sincerely
Mark
So the banjos are still being plucked out here hey ?
Holy ..... !!
I'm with Nigel and Bobby. Talk about "Chinese Whispers" ! If Steve Navra engineered this discussion to drum up interest in the Tax Minimsation concept, then top marks to him as a genius marketer ! I think Seech might in fact be in the Navra payroll (no publicity is bad publicity, and all that)
Having said that, I can't quite get my tiny head around how people make comments like :
"that given the leg up that steve got from his participation in this forum..."
- especially when some are fully aware of the circumstances of him deciding enough was enough on here. I think he added more to this forum than most of the top 5% of helpful posters, whether you claim he was selling something or not, and as Nigel pointed out, p-l-e-n-t-y of people are 'selling' on SomerSoft
"hence recall reasons given as to why certain people (with vested interests) participate here" - - so most people posting here don't have a 'vested interest' ? what are they doing here then - are they unemployed ?
"happy to have certain events promoted here that are likely to generate business for them..."
You think he knows its being discussed on here ? I sincerely doubt it, personally ... unless Seech is sending this feedback as part of his marketing agreement ;-)
"I can't say that I'm particularly comfortable with the concept of Invested.."
What - the concept of an online forum where you can gain a financial education, discuss and debate with experts in their respective industries ? And fancy - a couple of hundred bucks to get access. You're right - sounds dodgy...
"Steve's request certain elements of the of content of those 994 posts was removed at roughly the same time InvestEd was launched."
Anyone around at the time remembers why the posts were removed, and I am sure it was not to make money from them on a "pay per view" basis ;-)
"I think there are grapes involved..."
"I did hear this same rumour...."
I'm rushing out to buy as many grapes as I can at Woollies today - sounds like with the market rumours I'll be sitting on a gold mine ?
"Steve's health issues should be a heavy reminder to everyone of the pitfalls of overrelying on a business or investment with one mouthpiece, and possibly one brain."
Are you talking about Kerry Packer, Rupert Murdoch, Warren Buffett, Michael Yardney, Peter Spann, Steve Navra ?
Um, a Chairman with detached retinas from a 20 year old rugby injury, should indicate some of the very capable people I have met at NFS and NI aren't capable of managing an investment that follows a set methodology ? DISCLAIMER : yes I have some funds in Navra Invest. Its been successful for me so far, when Steve Navra was on deck and when he was off for personal and illness reasons. I care more about the proven results than the BS.
Somersoft is a fantastic propertyforum - InvestEd doesn't touch it as far as I can see, because the wealth of property knowledge from such a large community here is unmatchable.
InvestEd IMHO is a way better and less aggressive forum in which to discuss other financial matters and financial education - in these areas it isn't clouded by anywhere near as much rhetoric or personal axes-to-grind. The advisors also appear to me more knowledgable, better able to put points of view and manage productive discussions. (only in my opinion, which I am entitled to )
InvestEd doesn't push Navra-only products. In fact, the information about Navra products on there is inadequate in my view. I have found out more about non-Navra information on there than I would have in years of posting here.
What I have heard about the tax minimisation strategy to date (limited, as far as I am aware, to the same details available to Michael, and other Invested members and shareholders) sounds extremely interesting. I'll wait for confirmation of the ATO ruling, PDS and presentations, and make my own decisions. But not based on whether I personally like Mr Navra or not.
So Steve Navra drives a nicer car than you and me ? So he seems to be able to make creative ideas work ? He gets backing and makes a good return for investors ? He runs a bigger empire than you ? You don't necessarily agree with his ideas ? He's South African ?
I've said it before. People should chill. Honestly.
Holy ..... !!
I'm with Nigel and Bobby. Talk about "Chinese Whispers" ! If Steve Navra engineered this discussion to drum up interest in the Tax Minimsation concept, then top marks to him as a genius marketer ! I think Seech might in fact be in the Navra payroll (no publicity is bad publicity, and all that)
Having said that, I can't quite get my tiny head around how people make comments like :
"that given the leg up that steve got from his participation in this forum..."
- especially when some are fully aware of the circumstances of him deciding enough was enough on here. I think he added more to this forum than most of the top 5% of helpful posters, whether you claim he was selling something or not, and as Nigel pointed out, p-l-e-n-t-y of people are 'selling' on SomerSoft
"hence recall reasons given as to why certain people (with vested interests) participate here" - - so most people posting here don't have a 'vested interest' ? what are they doing here then - are they unemployed ?
"happy to have certain events promoted here that are likely to generate business for them..."
You think he knows its being discussed on here ? I sincerely doubt it, personally ... unless Seech is sending this feedback as part of his marketing agreement ;-)
"I can't say that I'm particularly comfortable with the concept of Invested.."
What - the concept of an online forum where you can gain a financial education, discuss and debate with experts in their respective industries ? And fancy - a couple of hundred bucks to get access. You're right - sounds dodgy...
"Steve's request certain elements of the of content of those 994 posts was removed at roughly the same time InvestEd was launched."
Anyone around at the time remembers why the posts were removed, and I am sure it was not to make money from them on a "pay per view" basis ;-)
"I think there are grapes involved..."
"I did hear this same rumour...."
I'm rushing out to buy as many grapes as I can at Woollies today - sounds like with the market rumours I'll be sitting on a gold mine ?
"Steve's health issues should be a heavy reminder to everyone of the pitfalls of overrelying on a business or investment with one mouthpiece, and possibly one brain."
Are you talking about Kerry Packer, Rupert Murdoch, Warren Buffett, Michael Yardney, Peter Spann, Steve Navra ?
Um, a Chairman with detached retinas from a 20 year old rugby injury, should indicate some of the very capable people I have met at NFS and NI aren't capable of managing an investment that follows a set methodology ? DISCLAIMER : yes I have some funds in Navra Invest. Its been successful for me so far, when Steve Navra was on deck and when he was off for personal and illness reasons. I care more about the proven results than the BS.
Somersoft is a fantastic propertyforum - InvestEd doesn't touch it as far as I can see, because the wealth of property knowledge from such a large community here is unmatchable.
InvestEd IMHO is a way better and less aggressive forum in which to discuss other financial matters and financial education - in these areas it isn't clouded by anywhere near as much rhetoric or personal axes-to-grind. The advisors also appear to me more knowledgable, better able to put points of view and manage productive discussions. (only in my opinion, which I am entitled to
) InvestEd doesn't push Navra-only products. In fact, the information about Navra products on there is inadequate in my view. I have found out more about non-Navra information on there than I would have in years of posting here.
What I have heard about the tax minimisation strategy to date (limited, as far as I am aware, to the same details available to Michael, and other Invested members and shareholders) sounds extremely interesting. I'll wait for confirmation of the ATO ruling, PDS and presentations, and make my own decisions. But not based on whether I personally like Mr Navra or not.
So Steve Navra drives a nicer car than you and me ? So he seems to be able to make creative ideas work ? He gets backing and makes a good return for investors ? He runs a bigger empire than you ? You don't necessarily agree with his ideas ? He's South African ?
I've said it before. People should chill.
Honestly.
It definitely had the feeling that they were removed to then be reformatted and "sold" on Invested.
I was a little surprised that they were removed. I was around at the time and I'm still unsure why they were removed unless it was for the above reason (happy to be corrected).
I don't mean to be negative but this is just my feeling on the situation.
[I invest in the Navra fund but I'm not a member of Invested]
I made a promise to myself that I was going to stay away from Navra type 'issues' on here a little while ago, but I'll make one exception (which is probably eventually going to turn into about 50 exceptions over time, depending on whether I choose to continue to post on here - which is a completely seperate issue).
Anyway, what's all the huff about Steve removing the LOE posts about? You mean he actually took his intellectual property and decided he'd like to use it to help promote and drum business up for another enterprise that he's involved with? B****** (whoops, that's probably gonna get deleted or censored or whatever)! How dare he do that? Tsk tsk and to think - all those other 990 odd posts are just full of useless tidbits that people get nothing out of.
Everyone's happy to take something for nothing eh.....
Mark
Anyway, what's all the huff about Steve removing the LOE posts about? You mean he actually took his intellectual property and decided he'd like to use it to help promote and drum business up for another enterprise that he's involved with? B****** (whoops, that's probably gonna get deleted or censored or whatever)! How dare he do that? Tsk tsk and to think - all those other 990 odd posts are just full of useless tidbits that people get nothing out of.
Everyone's happy to take something for nothing eh.....
Mark
Last edited by a moderator:
The topic of Steve Navra is a fine line. Yes there are other seminar presenters that post on here & have fewer posts to their credit than Steve Navra does. However, those other seminar presenters are ACTIVE forum members. These days the only time Steve posts is to blatantly advertise for his events and his pay-to-use forum. I feel he has overstepped the mark. He was a valuable contributor, but that is in the past. The fact that he made a very valuable contribution & then asked for it to be removed is a double blow. These days I feel that his advertisements should be shown for what they really are, SPAM.
What would happen to the forum if all our respected Business owners stopped posting unless they were making a mention of their business? Would that inspire members to want to be a part of our community? I don't think it would. My feeling is that if someone is not CURRENTLY an active participant of the forum, they shouldn't be able to advertise their business here.
I know I'm not going to win any friends with my opinions on this subject, but I know I am not the only person who feels this way.
What would happen to the forum if all our respected Business owners stopped posting unless they were making a mention of their business? Would that inspire members to want to be a part of our community? I don't think it would. My feeling is that if someone is not CURRENTLY an active participant of the forum, they shouldn't be able to advertise their business here.
I know I'm not going to win any friends with my opinions on this subject, but I know I am not the only person who feels this way.
I think the point is that he was happy to contribute here before he had his own forum.
Do people really own what they post after they post it?
I'm not sure that they do. Somersoft is an online community and what you give to that community belongs to all - not one.
As for "something for nothing" - you don't think Steve benefitted from his time here?
As it is now, he doesn't post very often and, as Skater correctly notes, when he does it is to advertise.
But even if he never posted again he still gets plenty of free-advertising from this place. Lots of gain for no pain.
Not to mention a seemingly endless supply of business partners, clients, InvestEd members and employees who seem willing to speak on his behalf like as though they have an objective leg to stand on.
Please....
Mark
Do people really own what they post after they post it?
I'm not sure that they do. Somersoft is an online community and what you give to that community belongs to all - not one.
As for "something for nothing" - you don't think Steve benefitted from his time here?
As it is now, he doesn't post very often and, as Skater correctly notes, when he does it is to advertise.
But even if he never posted again he still gets plenty of free-advertising from this place. Lots of gain for no pain.
Not to mention a seemingly endless supply of business partners, clients, InvestEd members and employees who seem willing to speak on his behalf like as though they have an objective leg to stand on.
Please....
Mark
skater said:
Oh I see !!! The only time I've seen Navra stuff mentioned its usually raised by 'the detractors' which then becomes free advertising anyway.
As far as I knew he hasn't posted on here for ages. But then I searched and found posts from late February advertising for Sydney Property and Tax Minimisation.
Actually, I do agree, such posts should be backed up by posts contributing something to the 'Community'. I don't think someone who has posted then removed other valuable input (and it was valuable - hopefully everyone thought to take a copy, before it was copyrighted!) should be able to use the same forum to tout for business.
That particular point, granted ;-)
However being aware of how some people treated his advice on here, I can also fully understand why he told everyone to 'jam it'. Personally I think though he should have left it at that
Just wanted to point out here, that Steve has hardly been posting on InvestEd either, since around December. This is due to his eye problem, which is now rectified and he is currently in the process of recovering from.
Incidentally with the seminars, he doens't make any money from them. They are always charged at cost. Sure, Navra makes money after the fact, but only if people choose to become clients. I'd hardly call that spam, but that's just my opinion.
No arguments or anything, just pointing that out.
Mark
Edit: exception no. 2, 48 to go.
Incidentally with the seminars, he doens't make any money from them. They are always charged at cost. Sure, Navra makes money after the fact, but only if people choose to become clients. I'd hardly call that spam, but that's just my opinion.
No arguments or anything, just pointing that out.
Mark
Edit: exception no. 2, 48 to go.
TryHard said:
However being aware of how some people treated his advice on here, I can also fully understand why he told everyone to 'jam it'. Personally I think though he should have left it at that
The reality is that it was one post ( rapidly deleted ) that caused Steve to leave ( In my understanding at the time ). No one how read it thought it was appropriate , and I have the web site book marked in case the person who posted it at any time needs reminding about what they linked to
See Change
Pitt St said:
You're kidding aren't ya ? Objective ?? have you read some of the posts and Dorothy Dixer's from 'the underground' ??
I'm not worshipping at the Altar of the Great Guru Navra - I'm simply trying to defend someone who I thought wasn't around here to defend themselves. And in most cases from the biggest amount of unjustified, half-researched, scare-mongering horse s*** I've ever seen, considering historically the same people have been proven completely wrong by actual results.
Having said that Pitt St - I totally agree with you - if someone posts on this forum as far as I understood, the information is then owned by the Forum. I agree removing it was 'ordinary' IMHO.
Have fun out there
Cheers
Carl
Nothing ordinary about it TryHard. Just plain wrong. At the time it was posted he was more than happy to try to assist people in understanding how LOE works. After changing his mind because of one post he didn't agree with it was deleted.TryHard said:
I didn't read the post that caused Steve to have a dummy spit (because that's what it was) but at the end of the day there are going to be people out there in forum land that don't like you. I'm sure there are some don't like me & my views the same as there are others that I don't agree with. That's life! But to take your bat & ball & go home over something like that & then pull your posts & later only come back when touting for business is just not kosher IMHO.
I feel you should be part of the community or not involved at all. No inbetweens! But maybe that's just me.
It appears we agree Skater. I was using 'ordinary' in the Aussie vernacular meaning 'wrong'.
I also agree you should be involved in the Community properly or not at all (at least if you are using the forum to advertise a product or service)
I don't agree with a lot of the stuff said ABOUT the man on here, but I also don't agree with him using the forum "selectively".
So there you go ...
I also agree you should be involved in the Community properly or not at all (at least if you are using the forum to advertise a product or service)
I don't agree with a lot of the stuff said ABOUT the man on here, but I also don't agree with him using the forum "selectively".
So there you go ...
"Anyone prepared to enlighten us? "
"Anyone prepared to enlighten us? "
That's why I joined this thread and added my 2c worth of knowledge on the new navra product.
Perhaps I didn't understand the original theme....
Please start a new thread all about Mr Navra if you all want to...(Sim?)
But how about we continue a discussion and exchange info on something a lot more interesting and beneficial - paying less tax with investment products.
How about it ?
"Anyone prepared to enlighten us? "
That's why I joined this thread and added my 2c worth of knowledge on the new navra product.
Perhaps I didn't understand the original theme....
Please start a new thread all about Mr Navra if you all want to...(Sim?)
But how about we continue a discussion and exchange info on something a lot more interesting and beneficial - paying less tax with investment products.
How about it ?
Maniyak,
I will be more than happy to post whatever I learn following the presentation from Steve on the 26th. If I were to post my current understanding of the product then I could be way off the mark and it would only serve to further muddy the waters.
Wish I could help you sooner, but the 26th isn't that long off really...
Best Regards,
Michael.
I will be more than happy to post whatever I learn following the presentation from Steve on the 26th. If I were to post my current understanding of the product then I could be way off the mark and it would only serve to further muddy the waters.
Wish I could help you sooner, but the 26th isn't that long off really...
Best Regards,
Michael.
