I'M NEW HERE, Advice for my IP Strategies

Hi MTR,

Cheers for the update re that Coolbelup property. I was away over the weekend so couldn't get through it but had done a drive by and council and water corp calls.

I am brand new to this so using properties like this to do " practice due diligence" until we are ready to go/ have sold our existing IP.

Wow at it going for $495k! I was struggling to make the numbers work at $465k.

May I ask in your ( or anyone happy to comment) opinion, would this site only have suited a builder/ developer? Or would you consider it viable and maybe I am way off in how I am calculating feasibility.

Thank you in advance,
:)
 
I did not look at the numbers with the Coolbelup property as I had already purchased the Spearwood property where the figures did stack up.

I posted the Coolbelup as an example on how quickly the market is rising in Perth and how competitive it is to secure any development site.

Just doing some very rough calculations I doubt the numbers would stack up, as I mentioned why would you retain an asbestos house.

There is also a possibility that someone is landbanking and eventually build 2 new properties.

If you want to share your numbers on the Coolbelup property that would be great.

Vendor wants in the mid $600s for this, in this market they will probably get it.
http://www.realestate.com.au/property-house-wa-spearwood-113520743

MTR
 
Building costs are from $1000-1200, depending on the builder, specification etc.

MTR

Thats a pretty fair value for the market you are discussing.

Be aware though that this can vary significantly if you move away from that market. As an example my build costs are closer to $2,000/sqm. however, I am looking at selling values closer to double what is being discussed here.

I am just stating this so that you dont look at doing a feso on a western suburbs development and expect to build 3 units for $1200/sqm and expect them to sell for $800k.

Im sure MTR is aware of this, but others may not be.
 
Hi all
my thoughts were to either....

A) complete the same retain and build process over again. i was very pleased with the equity it created but the capital required to fund the project and holding costs could put a strain on our lifestyle with a lower income.

or B) look into some strong regional areas, i like Mildura and some of the NSW regional areas and i would be able to comfortably purchase 3 properties around the 150k mark and its not hard at all to find neutral/cashflow positive properties in this area. only downside is i think i would create more equity by doing method A

- Blair :)

Hi Blair

Firstly well done on the success of your first property buy. A great result.

In reading some of your other posts my concern is that you are a bit unclear about your strategy, and are kind of flying by the seat of your pants. While this can be fun and exciting - it makes it difficult to identify the right opportunities for YOU.

I have said it in the past on this forum that you really do need to develop a strategy first. This will help you to direct your attention to your next move. It will clear away a lot of the 'opportunities' which you are currently seeing and will ensure you don't invest and tie up capital, which doesn't form a part of your bigger picture.

Everything you are looking at currently is a 'potential opportunity'. If you have a strategy in place it will really help you narrow down what you are looking for.

Just my thoughts. As the two options above are quite a world apart from each other.

Blacky
 
Thats a pretty fair value for the market you are discussing.

Be aware though that this can vary significantly if you move away from that market. As an example my build costs are closer to $2,000/sqm. however, I am looking at selling values closer to double what is being discussed here.

I am just stating this so that you dont look at doing a feso on a western suburbs development and expect to build 3 units for $1200/sqm and expect them to sell for $800k.

Im sure MTR is aware of this, but others may not be.

Thanks Blacky
 
Hi Blair

Firstly well done on the success of your first property buy. A great result.

In reading some of your other posts my concern is that you are a bit unclear about your strategy, and are kind of flying by the seat of your pants. While this can be fun and exciting - it makes it difficult to identify the right opportunities for YOU.

I have said it in the past on this forum that you really do need to develop a strategy first. This will help you to direct your attention to your next move. It will clear away a lot of the 'opportunities' which you are currently seeing and will ensure you don't invest and tie up capital, which doesn't form a part of your bigger picture.

Everything you are looking at currently is a 'potential opportunity'. If you have a strategy in place it will really help you narrow down what you are looking for.

Just my thoughts. As the two options above are quite a world apart from each other.

Blacky

Hey Blacky,

yes i understand the importance of a strategy for investing, and if i don't follow one i can end up doing things the long way.

i know both option A and option B are the opposite to one another but the reason i mentioned this is because currently i have a high paying job doing FIFO work which i may leave soon for a lower paying city job unless i can get my girlfriend a position on site with me...if we can do FIFO work together, then i will almost certainly go with option A and try and repeat the process a few times before i revaluate my strategies and goals.

However if i can not find work together with my partner in the FIFO industry then i was contemplating traveling for a bit after the completion of my first project. i would still want to continue property investing so would look for something like option B where i could purchase 2 or 3 cash-flow positive properties with the equity gained from my first investment and let them do there thing whilst I'm away traveling ( of course i would make sure i had cash reserves to fund any vacancies, maintanence issues etc)

ideally i would like to do option A and before i do complete my current project i will make sure my strategies are clear before moving on but one thing that does concern me a little bit and has been mentioned by other somersofters is the fact that there is so much competition out there in the perth market for these development blocks. i'm always on reiwa trying to find some good ones and run the numbers etc and its seems increasingly more difficult to find investments that work.

do you have any advice on searching for the right development project and also what sort of returns are the minimum expected for dollar spent on these projects.

i think i was very lucky with mine but ill give you the numbers...

it was a mortgagee sale in south lake so i picked it up for 425,000. (FHOG and stamp duty concession used) renos + subdivision costs = 60,000 and building for the back section 235,000. holding costs maybe around 15,000 but we plan to share our rooms out so that should neutral gear the retained house.

but end values of the 2 houses i expect to be
440,000 for the retained house and 500,000 for the back. (as at this time next year)
so that works out to be 215,000 equity gain.

i have been finding it hard to find retain and builds that will give me 50000-100000k profit, was i lucky with the first or is the market getting a lot tighter or am i maybe not looking in the right places??

interested on everyones thoughts.

cheers

-Blair
 
Thanks MTR and Blacky ( and Blair)

MTR - thanks for the offer to look over the figures I came up with, greatly appreciated and will send you a PM....still a little shy to play in the big kids sandpit and nor do I want to high jack Blair's thread.

Blair, I think your attitude and view to your work is awesome. As we all know the industry is volatile and projects change daily. I stopped working away last year and Hubby is still working away, we saved as hard as we could knowing it was only for a few years ( we were on different swings and a few times different sites). So just something to keep in mind that if you do get your gal on site, the swings can make it difficult also, reducing the amount of time you can keep going. Wish you the absolute best though with getting it all to line up .

Will keep reading with interest :)
 
like for these ones here, does anybody have time to run numbers on them, I'm thinking i might be doing something wrong as i don't see much potential for decent returns on any of them except the last one in gosnells with potential 2 units at back i think could be alright..

http://reiwa.com.au/Buy/Pages/More-...1&listingid=10304500&listingno=3306053&puid=0

http://reiwa.com.au/Buy/Pages/More-...1&listingid=10301143&listingno=3302667&puid=0

http://reiwa.com.au/Buy/Pages/More-...1&listingid=10292166&listingno=3293378&puid=0

http://reiwa.com.au/Buy/Pages/More-...1&listingid=10303138&listingno=3304682&puid=0
 
Thanks Sasi, yeh i have already been in the industry for just over 2 years now so prepared to move back to the city in the next few months if no work becomes available for us both together. where did you worg if you don't mind me asking, i'm on the FMG lines in Hedland at the moment.
 
Ok - so sounds like you have a fair idea of what you are wanting to do, depending on your circumstance changes.

Your first project went well.
Purchase $425,000
Purchase costs (5%) $21,250
Holding costs $15,000
Reno $60,000
Build $225,000
What about connections, sewerage, water, power, landscaping etc? I this included in the above?

Total $746,250

Value on completion $940,000 + $15,000 income.

Return 22%

You should be targeting returns of 20%+ for developments - anything below and you are at risk.
Also asses the value at current market value - dont assume that the market value will increase during the development.
If you are not hitting 20% - walk away - its not worth your risk.

I dont focus so much on the end $ - more the %.

The places you listed in Gosnells look pretty tight.

$400k for the purchase
$20k for purchase costs
$50k for demolition, approvals, connections etc
$50k interest
$600k build ($150k x4)

Total $1,120k

End value circa $300k/unit = $1,200k

Profit $80k or 7%

Keep looking!
 
like for these ones here, does anybody have time to run numbers on them, I'm thinking i might be doing something wrong as i don't see much potential for decent returns on any of them except the last one in gosnells with potential 2 units at back i think could be alright..

http://reiwa.com.au/Buy/Pages/More-...1&listingid=10304500&listingno=3306053&puid=0

]

I'm going to run the first one as an example and you can see if you concur with me - or anyone else :)

198 Hicks Street - 1012 m2 on R30/R40. I'll run sums on R40 plans

R40 = 200 min block, 220 average block. 1012m2 complies :)
20.12 m frontage and 50.29 side boundaries

Assumption
- Property has ROW which we can use
- no idea where sewerage is so ignoring that

My workings:

1. Using City of Gosnells intramaps I can see that I can retain front house and carve off a rear area of 465 m2 whilst retaining front house
2. That would give me 2 x 230 m2 blocks at the rear that I would run both off the ROW in blocks of 10m each and a depth of 23m.
3. Costs

Block $400k
Buying costs 5% $20k
Demolish pool $5-10
Construct 2 x 3 bedroom homes $400k turnkey.
Total $830. Make it $850 as a guestimate inc holding​

4. Value

Approx $320k each $960k total which is

5. After awhile demolish front original house and replace with 2 more street frontage villas.

Total cost is now $1.25m and value may have risen to $350k each $1.4m

So I make it at 12% profit.

Not good enough for me. Are my prices right? Well if construction costs could come down that would increase profit. I know that my triplexes costed about $200k each all up inc everything down to subdivision/fencing/grass blah blah

If the end value was more then good too. I would talk to a real estate agent and get a more accurate idea on the value.
 
Thanks Sasi, yeh i have already been in the industry for just over 2 years now so prepared to move back to the city in the next few months if no work becomes available for us both together. where did you worg if you don't mind me asking, i'm on the FMG lines in Hedland at the moment.

Will PM you our locations and our roster experience as examples:)
 
Your analysis is probably more informed than mine - but at least we kind of agree.
I wasn't too far off on my napkin estimates.

:D

I do my best work on napkins :)

You get used to running the sums.

This one I thought I would outline as it had potential to think outside the square and retain front and build 2 in the rear then once front had truly served it's purpose get rid of it and build 2 more.
 
my figures came in closer to 900 basically the same as you but i go 220 per each dwelling.

its definitely a tough market out there and if you want to come across good deals i think you need to constantly be on the lookout
 
my figures came in closer to 900 basically the same as you but i go 220 per each dwelling.

its definitely a tough market out there and if you want to come across good deals i think you need to constantly be on the lookout

Thank goodness I'm out of the market at the moment.

Whilst I'm out sales prices might catch up with development prices and then we might be good to go.

But I think it might be time to venture out of WA and go East to Melbourne
 
Thank goodness I'm out of the market at the moment.

Whilst I'm out sales prices might catch up with development prices and then we might be good to go.

But I think it might be time to venture out of WA and go East to Melbourne

fingers crossed for that, i also have another year to wait before i can get back into it!
 
News from the council -

clearance is about to be issued i can now go for titles with land gate :)

-just have to get the plumber to sign off saying no septics on site, and a little bit of landscaping on the retained property.

Hopefully building will start on the back section in about 4 months. ill be able to use my new equity with the new titles to fund this, and to start looking for my next purchase.

would have like to do another retain and build in WA but the market is just to hot at the moment and every property i crunch the numbers on comes back with poor profit margins.

So yeh have been looking at the melbourne market for doing similar retain and builds but not sure where to look, does anybody have some good suburbs in mind.

another option i am considering is picking up a few cheapies in regional NSW, VIC to boost the cash-flow up. a development would be preferred though.

cheers
 
well done blair

theres still deals poping up in perth, just gotto be orginised and quick, or look for the ones that are not obvious for development, like agent miss quoting or not knowing zoning or council planning scheme etc.

cheers
 
i'm new here too :)

I found this thread very interesting as i own a property in Spearwood. I have a fairly unique situation (maybe it needs a new thread). The property is 1190 m2 with a double brick late 60's 3x1. It was my families PPR until we moved to Sydney about 3 years ago. We now rent it out at about 380 pw.

Seeing as we don't live there anymore i've been considering selling, and recently had it valued at 750k.:eek:. I couldn't believe it and am still a little scepticle. Now that its basically an IP im not sure whether we should sell so we dont pay too much tax. I'd love to develop but my meagre income of 85k doesnt give me the freedom. Do you think its a good time to sell whilst developers are HUNGRY or will it continue to grow even after all the other units have been made. \
I'm not sure what the best stategy might be.

Any views? We currently pay 440 rent so can just save roughly 6k a year. We owe about 130k
 
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