Inner West - I finally get it

[Graemsay]

...that once an area is discovered by 'squares' who push prices up, the artists and immigrants get priced out and the area starts to lose the vibrancy that attracted the squares in the first place!

This happened in Fitzroy, in Melbourne. Now the 'scene' is about 10ks north.

I'm not sure if that's entirely true. The colonists tend to be design agencies (at least in places like Hoxton and Shoreditch in London), or other creative companies. It'll be less cutting edge or experimental, and the artists will complain that they're forced to move further out as rents and prices increase.

And, of course, old timers will complain it's not as good as it used to be.

That said, I can see where Luce.Rocks is coming from. Somewhere like Fitzroy is more interesting than the ultra-prime suburbs like Toorak.

 

[evand]

Oh yeah...thats been a week or so.

I meant a fatal one.

Someone mentioned Balmain in this thread, i was a regular in Balmain in the late 80s, early 90s and it was a fantastic place.

Here's a local article on what the influx of yuppies (squares) from the north shore can do to a once diverse and thriving suburb.

“Balmain has always been known as a unique, quirky village ... (but) over the past decade it has gone from a cool place to somewhere that has lost its way,” he said. Lost its way is a gross understatement id say.


http://inner-west-courier.whereilive.com.au/news/story/united-front-on-balmain-peninsula-dilemma/

By the way, would be great if someone had on opinion on here about the inner wst that actually lives in the area (beside myself and Scott that is). That would be a refreshing change.

 

[JWR]

I would say Balmain has gone from an 'iffy' area to a nice place to live in the past 10 years. The yuppies have made it a safer, cleaner and nicer place to live imo.

 

[depreciator]

Balmain stopped being 'iffy' at least 20 years ago. Like Evan, I used to go there a lot and loved it. Haven't been for ages, partly because it's too hard to get in there with the weekend traffic, and because it's all a bit bland now. It long ago lost its edge.

I lived in Erskinville for about 5 years in the late 80s. Boy, it was iffy. It's pretty tame now, too. Newtown is a bit the same, though King Street is still a great place to wander.

I lived in Annandale for about 5 years, too. It wasn't ever 'iffy', but it was interesting. Not any more.

People like me are to blame. We move to these areas because they are interesting. But we like the 'iffyness' - that's possibly not a word). So we put them on the radar. It's the next wave that follows us that pushes things over the top. In the last few years I've seen a huge increase in flash 4WDs around Marrickville - and they're being driven by blonde women and not drug dealers. I've seen the odd bloke wandering round with a sweater thrown jauntily over his shoulder. And in the last 6 months I've noticed something that sends a chill up my spine - blokes wearing trilby hats. I drove past a cafe last Saturday morning around 10am. There were people standing out on the footpath. I assumed there had been a shooting, but no, they were waiting for seats to become available inside. As if that wasn't scary enough, half the people milling around on the footpath were blokes in their 40s wearing trilby hats and trying to look like they're in their 30s. I'm worried because Marrickville is the end of the line. It's the end of the true inner west. The end of anything 'iffy'. I've lived through the change in Balmain, Annandale, Erko/Newtown and there's nowehere else to go.

 

[evand]

Good post Scott.

I think the last time Balmain was iffy was when it was a suburb housing wharfies, possibly the 1920s. But i accept everyone's idea of iffy is different. Growing up in the western suburbs i have a pretty high tolerance to iffy.

The 80's and most the 90s were great fun there. If bands, drinking, girls and ummm...other pastimes were your thing.

Leichhardt has gone as well. I lived there in the 80s/early 90s and it was ethnic/grungy but great. Now its boring, anglo, latte sipping, European pram pushing, 4 wheel driving....you know the rest....

Usually when iffy goes, character follows. Its the classic story of the inner west being known for pubs on corners with bands. The money moves in and complain about the noise from the pub and thats the end of that. Its happened all over the inner west/inner city. Sad. Gentrification equals bland, boringification, homogenisation.

And to add to your point point about trilbys, i'm acafe fan and i see guys around lately in cafes with their hair in buns. WTF! Marge Simpson look out.

Balmain stopped being 'iffy' at least 20 years ago. Like Evan, I used to go there a lot and loved it. Haven't been for ages, partly because it's too hard to get in there with the weekend traffic, and because it's all a bit bland now. It long ago lost its edge.

I lived in Erskinville for about 5 years in the late 80s. Boy, it was iffy. It's pretty tame now, too. Newtown is a bit the same, though King Street is still a great place to wander.

I lived in Annandale for about 5 years, too. It wasn't ever 'iffy', but it was interesting. Not any more.

People like me are to blame. We move to these areas because they are interesting. But we like the 'iffyness' - that's possibly not a word). So we put them on the radar. It's the next wave that follows us that pushes things over the top. In the last few years I've seen a huge increase in flash 4WDs around Marrickville - and they're being driven by blonde women and not drug dealers. I've seen the odd bloke wandering round with a sweater thrown jauntily over his shoulder. And in the last 6 months I've noticed something that sends a chill up my spine - blokes wearing trilby hats. I drove past a cafe last Saturday morning around 10am. There were people standing out on the footpath. I assumed there had been a shooting, but no, they were waiting for seats to become available inside. As if that wasn't scary enough, half the people milling around on the footpath were blokes in their 40s wearing trilby hats and trying to look like they're in their 30s. I'm worried because Marrickville is the end of the line. It's the end of the true inner west. The end of anything 'iffy'. I've lived through the change in Balmain, Annandale, Erko/Newtown and there's nowehere else to go.

 

[melbmeg]

Trilbies on middle-aged men are BAD

I accidentally ventured out in Richmond the other night and it was wall-to-grafitti'd-wall hipsters. Really quite nauseating.

I think I prefer blondes in 4WDs.

 

[C-mac]

Ok my two cents; depending on your strategy, I'd opt for the southern end of the inner-west, in Sydney. Specifically; Marrickville, Dulwich Hill, and Arncliffe/Tempe.

Why?

If it's an investment property: Dulwich Hill Tram extension will see the suburb become very well connected. And yes, the 'latte-sippers' are gradually moving in too. It'll be the next Petersham/Summer Hill in the next ten years (my opinion, that is!)

If it's a PPOR: you benefit from the gentrification of these suburbs getting greener, more connected, lowering crime rates etc. Again, in ten years these suburbs will be well into gentrification and you'll have a nice lifestyle location with even nicer capital growth.

Whatever choices you make, always remember not to overcapitalise. Never invest on the 'potential' and overpay; invest for the 'now' and pay the correct market rates for what it is, not what it can be.

I blogged a bit about overcapitalising recently; check it out here:

http://www.propertyspectator.blogspot.com.au/2011/10/overextending-yourself-true-cost-of.html

 

[strongy1986]

Yeah not from Sydney but I agree that there is nothing worse than seeing the place you live turn yuppie. Im only 25 but have noticed many changes as the area I have always lived in becomes increasingly more and more popular with yuppie types. At least they arn't the arty types, cant stand them either.


On Saturday morning the Cafes are full of lame brains having a latte after a strenuous bike ride. Then they have to duck off home so they can take Jimi to the soccer game in the wifes Toorak Tractor (4wd), preferably audi or BMW make. Aussie Rules is far too dangerous.

Even the pub here turned yuppie. They closed the public bar then they reopened it and now they have closed it for good. They tried to turn the place into an overpriced restaurant which didnt work and now they advertise Pot and Parma nights! Make up your minds

Good spots are always ruined. Mostly by people like us on investment property forums. But if you cant beat them you might as well join them. Only chance Ill have of living there again is if I make some money from investing elsewhere. Then I'll move back there and realise that I dont want to live there anymore because its full of those yuppie types!

 

[depreciator]

And to add to your point point about trilbys, i'm acafe fan and i see guys around lately in cafes with their hair in buns.

Oh dear. That would tip me over the edge.


Luce, the problem with Marrickville is that it's now expensive. I imagine it's hard to get anything half decent for less than $700K. That would get you an unrenovated house in an okay position. I don't keep much of an eye on prices, but that's what I imagine. Propertunity would know.

There is a really good pocket in Tempe. It's sort of a triangle edged by the railway line, the highway and the river. There are a dozen or so streets that are pretty quiet - no plane noise. The entry price there must be $150K less than Marrickville.

 

[lizzie]

i'm a cafe fan and i see guys around lately in cafes with their hair in buns.

... that is just seriously creepy ...

 

[Propertunity]

Luce, the problem with Marrickville is that it's now expensive. I imagine it's hard to get anything half decent for less than $700K. That would get you an unrenovated house in an okay position. I don't keep much of an eye on prices, but that's what I imagine. Propertunity would know.

You're pretty much on the money Scott. I bought 2 x in there that were 3brm 1 bath 1 car for $675K a piece. Both had original kitchens and bathrooms. I paid $728K for another that was valued at $735K by a bank valuer on the morning of the same day.

There is a really good pocket in Tempe. It's sort of a triangle edged by the railway line, the highway and the river. There are a dozen or so streets that are pretty quiet - no plane noise. The entry price there must be $150K less than Marrickville.

Also true, but the last one I paid $553K for in Tempe was a total 'gut it' and 'put all the internals in the skip bin' job. It has come up nicely though.

 

[Ross]

Lol its not rougher, have you walked through Strathfield, Haberfield, Rodd point, Russel Lea? Or parts of Concord and Abbotsford? There are houses in Concord up for sale at 2million+

Yeh, pretty rough in Abbotsford, just finished this rebuild

Ross

 

[luce.rocks]

By the way, would be great if someone had on opinion on here about the inner wst that actually lives in the area (beside myself and Scott that is). That would be a refreshing change.

I've lived in Newtown, St Peters, Glebe, Forest Lodge, Ultimo and Enmore over the years, so the Inner West isn't completely foreign to me But it's true that I haven't spent much time in the outer limits of the Inner West.

*ooh, and Chippendale, I forgot Chippendale

 

[evand]

Over how many years have you lived in all those suburbs? You must have a great feel for the area. Why did you just have the aha! moment?

I've lived in Newtown, St Peters, Glebe, Forest Lodge, Ultimo and Enmore over the years, so the Inner West isn't completely foreign to me But it's true that I haven't spent much time in the outer limits of the Inner West.

*ooh, and Chippendale, I forgot Chippendale

 

[luce.rocks]

Over how many years have you lived in all those suburbs? You must have a great feel for the area. Why did you just have the aha! moment?

On and off from 1994 to 2008. But during that time I also spent a few years in Paddington (Five Ways) and Surry Hills, and a few years in the country in Orange.

Marrickville was always just that extra step further, so I never really ventured out that far, except a few times to go to the recycle centre, tempe tip or Marrickville Metro. It always just felt a bit too industrial, bit too rough. Didn't feel like there was much community. Mind you, maybe that was because I was only seeing a small part of the whole suburb.

As a renter, I didn't feel the need to look further into the area because I could afford to stay in 'my part' of the Inner West. Now, as a potential home buyer, I can't afford to look at 'my part' of the Inner West, and I'm starting to discover the charms of Marrickville and it's surrounds

 

[Lupo]

Lol its not rougher, have you walked through Strathfield, Haberfield, Rodd point, Russel Lea? Or parts of Concord and Abbotsford? There are houses in Concord up for sale at 2million+

Yeh, pretty rough in Abbotsford, just finished this rebuild

Ross

Jesus, I would never live there. I think I saw a hoodlum running past in the reflection in the glass on the second story balcony.

Steering clear there!

I think alot of people that live over the North Side and have a look straight over to the Inner West and west are more 'rougher' I can't understand this because in my rough neighbourhood I think the net worth of 4 individuals on just my street is in total of 200million.

Where you a part of the build of that project? I know one of the main builders of that area, I think they actually own the project couple streets down or up (street leads down from a hill straight to a park, not near water though).

 

[evand]

ok, got it. But the name of the thread is "Inner West, i finally got it" You seemed to have spent a lot of time in the inner west, just not much in Marrickville.

On and off from 1994 to 2008. But during that time I also spent a few years in Paddington (Five Ways) and Surry Hills, and a few years in the country in Orange.

Marrickville was always just that extra step further, so I never really ventured out that far, except a few times to go to the recycle centre, tempe tip or Marrickville Metro. It always just felt a bit too industrial, bit too rough. Didn't feel like there was much community. Mind you, maybe that was because I was only seeing a small part of the whole suburb.

As a renter, I didn't feel the need to look further into the area because I could afford to stay in 'my part' of the Inner West. Now, as a potential home buyer, I can't afford to look at 'my part' of the Inner West, and I'm starting to discover the charms of Marrickville and it's surrounds

 

[luce.rocks]

ok, got it. But the name of the thread is "Inner West, i finally got it" You seemed to have spent a lot of time in the inner west, just not much in Marrickville.

Yeah, but I also spent a lot of that time as a student, in student rentals, etc., so I thought of the Inner West as mostly student digs for a long time. Or full of other low income renters, musos, etc.

I never thought of those suburbs as places that families and professionals would like to buy into, let alone pay a premium to buy into. Glebe, Balmain, Annandale, etc., yes, but Marrickville, Dulwich Hill, St Peters, etc., no.

But now I understand why people would choose to buy there, and not just students, musos, baristas and hairdressers. That's why I finally 'get' the Inner West hype

 

[Oscar]

not quite inner west, but I lived in Chippendale and Surry Hills (cleveland street) in the late 80's and early 90's. It was a kind of heaven for me. Moving out of Penrith for the first time and into the grungy big smoke. Those were the days when you could walk into pubs like the landsdowne in chippo or the clock in SH and be offered a bit more than you bargained for

The area was rough, gritty, dirty and cheap. They were exciting times for a young lad in full employment, out of the nest for the first time.

 

[Richard Feynman]

Over the last 7 years I've seen Marrickville change pretty dramatically. I've been a resident (renter, and now owner) in that time.

The (visible) people are getting younger, friendlier more alternative and trendier. There's a combination of overflow from Newtown/Enmore, plus those who now know Marrickville by name and WANT to live there. It's becoming a first choice suburb.

On the social front, a few warehouses have been rented or purchased by savvy folks and are hosting warehouse partie, gigs and events with attendances in the 3-figures on a weekly basis. The Factory theatre is going quite well too.

Cafés are popping up all over the place and cafés with **** food and bad coffee are being replaced by better ones. One small 500m strip surrounding the train station along Illawarra Road has seen a handful pop up in the last 6 months alone.

As mentioned earlier in this post, people are actually lining up en-masse on weekends to get their dose of caffeine at the best cafés.

The new library is going to be a big boost when it's complete. Not to mention expansion of the Marrickville Metro in the north end which is going to add something like another 2/3 of its volume of shops.

Lots of apartment developments are underway, the two big ones being Quarry and Revolution (both on Illawarra Road, about 700m from each other, opposing sides of the train station) and there are a bunch of smaller ones too. All are selling exceptionally quickly it seems.

I have been keeping an eye on sales. In the last 18 months, here's a sample for small 1 bedroom units, with NO parking that I have on file.

$360k - 50sqm
$341k - 38sqm (recently renovated)
$341k - 43sqm
$331.5k - 49sqm
$318k - 42sqm
$309k - 38sqm
$301k - 30sqm (approx)
$300k - 42sqm
$295k - 42sqm
$285k - 33sqm (approx)

Those are some serious prices from some pretty cosy places. This may not be the most perfect representation of sales overall, and I'm the polar opposite of an expert, but those figures seem to suggest that people really want to get into Marrickville and that demand is pushing up the prices of the absolute entry level apartments.

Things look pretty good at the moment..