Investment strategies

investor:

Extremely good point (and, yes, not something I had considered). Here is one further observation:

P.S consider a vacancy for the whole year
HG
growth 48K + rent 0 = 48K
HY
growth 16K + rent 0 = 16K

At 6.5% interest, the interest bill on $400K of property is $26,000 per year.

Ignoring tax benefits, this means we get:

HG
growth 48K + rent 0 - interest 26K = 12K.
HY
growth 16K + rent 0 - interest 26K = -10K.

In reality, up to 48.5% of that interest bill might be claimable in tax but, either way, the HG property is still far ahead on that count.

Without a tenant in a High Yield/Low Growth property you are going backwards. Without a tenant in a High Growth/Low Yield property you can still increase your equity.
 
What if we add historical 10% interest rates to a scenario?

Positive cashflow property of $400K with 4% growth and 8-10% yield.

High Growth property $400K with average 10% growth over 10 years mostly in the last 4 and 3-4% yield.

The servicability becomes a lot harder unless you have a group of positive cashflow properties, high income guaranteed for next 10 years or other pasive income to help fund the servicability.

My main point is that I believe there is a definite time to buy positive cashflow properties, become more creative in our buying and by high growth properties. +CF, crative purchasing in slowing market and High growth prior to booming market.
 
Strategies?

This Thread , best I have read for a while. So I have addded my bit for that reason.

For the record I agree with the capital growth people. BEN ect...

Investing is about a return for the risk. Making a Black mark on the balance sheet. Most of us either work for someone or run our own show. Either way I look at investing as a way to earn profits within time frames (shorter the time frame - faster we get to try it again). People like myself & quite a few PIF will endeavour to obtain the Maximum profit mark within the shortest time frame.

It does not really matter which way this is performed. Some will reach this mark in 1 year & some in ten years. If I purchase a 4 homes in a year at a rate of 23% capital growth + add in the purchase was off the plan for that first 12 mths. This would give me a head start of 23% on the total of 4 homes. This would allow me to not rent the homes out also take off interest at 7% & still have enough equity to do it all over again in the next year.
I can always borrow for the repayments every year as long as my property rises above the expenses rate.

My point is I have delt with thousands of Investors all kinds, properties & shares. I know a guy who even makes around $300k a Year buying motor cycles out of the paper , does a reno on that & re sells them.

The quality of the investment (ability to make the fastest & largest return possiable) which will enable you to re invest at the faster rate will give you ability to obtain profits at a faster rate.

Start treating the process like running a business. You would be shocked to find out how this may effect the return in IP'S

Sounds easy! Well you do need to find the quality buys of course.
But that's half the fun..

Cheers Ocean
 
There seems to be one thing in this debate that has been overlooked in this post in the ongoing cap growth / cash flow debate.

That is as the property cycle moves , different styles of property move at different times.

Typical high growth areas move first , THEN the typical cash flow growth areas move afterwards. Personally I wouldn't buy a cash flow property unless I felt it was going to increase in value unless it was returning something like 20 %.

My plan for the next ten years invloves something like this.
We are in the process of planning a Dual Occ on our PPOR.
Once we finish it ( assuming it gets through council), if the market is still reasonable we will sell the current house and move into the new house. This will give us a mortgage free PPOR and hopefully some money in the bank. If we can't sell the house for a reasonable price we will sell the house into a trust fund , refinancing it.

We will then spend some money and time improving the IP's we have bought in Logan and Hobart in order to increase the rental returns and improve the type of tenants in these properties. At some stage we will also refinance these properties so we will have some equity available to make more purchases within the trusts that hold these.

At this stage ( and in the mean time ) I will be keeping a close eye on the stock market. There will come a time when this will be a good place to get good returns , but I think now is too early.

Again depending on what the market is like we may repeat our current strategy of buying a PPOR to do a subdivision / dual occ, but this is more disruptive to family life.

If we don't do that we will be looking for the "deal of the decade" in terms of buying something undervalued in sydney or central coast ( close to home ) that gives us the option of increasing our equity by renovating or redeveloping. This will need to be a special deal , and if I see that the market is moving down I would be happy to watch from the sidelines for a while. We are looking at changing direction in our work lives and this might be the time to do that if IP opportunities are not obvious.

But anyway I anticipate that in the next five years we will be buying in good areas in sydney with the aim of buying close to the bottom of the next property cycle. As these properties start increasing in value I plan to draw out equity and use this to buy in the middle / outer ring areas of sydney. We will have plenty of time to reaseach which areas will be the areas that are more likely to undergo gentrification , but the areas in sydney I have the most knolwedge about are the north shore, northern beaches, and inner west , out to concord.

As these areas move I will repeat the process of drawing down equity and put it into the traditional cash flow areas of sydney such as Mt Druitt. Once these arrears takes off I'll be back up to brisbane looking to buy in cash flow areas up there to take advantage of the Capital Growth that this area will once again experience.

At this stage I don't know how active I will be in getting involved in developments but this is an option that I will keep open , and depending on finances , it is something I may do full time for a few years.

In about ten years time I plan to be living in a waterfront house backing onto Pittwater with a recoding studio looking out over the boats tied up at the end of Jetty. Bronte will be visiting with her parents just having had her tenth birthday and I'll have a Grammy award on the Mantle place over the open fire :cool:

see change
 
Hi I'm new here but I thought I'd put in my 2 cents worth for any low income earners out there. Are there any? It is possible to purchase +ve cash properties with capital growth in provincial towns. It's the only way we could go at this stage and still SAN. 3yrs ago we purchased a 60k IP now valued at 80k it returns $130 per wk. At the time there were at least 3 other similar properties in the town. I figured if we sell tomorrow we come out at least 8000 in front. When you're on our sort of income that actually makes a difference. So I guess the moral is - if you can wrangle a loan - theres hope for you yet.
 
Hi Fish,

I think everyone is in your position at some stage. Congratulations in going for it!

I figure the best way I can teach my kids to learn fro themselves is to start, with probably only encouragement from us, and to do what you've done. To buy a cheaper property- possibly cashflow, especially for encouragement. And then for them to try to learn how to make that grow.

Have you played Cashflow at all?

It's interesting, and, to some extent, it probably mimics life.

When you start the game, you get a profession allocated.

The really interesting thing is, that the people on lower salaries actually "get out of the ratrace" earlier. (You get out of the ratrace by getting a "passive" income- say from real estate- greater than your expenses. But the doctors and lawyers have much bigger expenses- so it can really take a long time to retire. The house is bigger, the kids have to go to private school...
 
Fish: Im basically in the same position as you - on a pretty low income. My plan is to is get a couple of cash cows, ie a few of properties that put a few hundred dollars a week in the bank. Once on a better income, and needing to do less hrs at work, I can go hunting to the capactity that I can find the deal of the year, weekly.

Geoff: I've played CF once. I was the janitor, there were 6 of us playing and we were new to the board game so naturally it took us a while to play. I got out of the rat race 2nd last, in about 3 hrs lol. Im not sure if this is a good thing or a bad thing. Basically the game centres around a passive income tho, and I believe in real life this is only part of the picture. Getting capital growth, being ethical, are a couple of other things I can think of. God damn it I'm rambling again, oh well :p
 
This is a great thread,
I find living in Sydney frustrating,sure cap growth is great,but +/ve cashflow forget it.
Many sydneysiders ppor is worth a fortune but nothing else comming in (eg no +/VE props available ,so where do you go?)
Interstate or country towns?
Id like to hear from other Sydneysiders to see what their strategy is.
My neighbour is bullish on Newcastle?

cheers rob
 
you can still find 8%+ yield in sydney - just look west and thnk creatively

i think my strategy changes daily - as I learn new things ...

yet it essentially remains the same... a well informed investor once asked me.... how may property types on the BRW rich lists made it there from +ve cashflow....
 
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