This is probably the best advice you are going to get.
Investors using RE Agents/Property Managers - beware!
- Thread starter justallan
- Start date
This is probably the best advice you are going to get.
What makes us dream tenants... The short version is - because every PM we've had has told us so. The two previous (to our current) both said, "If you ever want to rent again, please give us a call." (Sadly they've since retired.) We painted all but one property at some stage, and left each spotlessly clean.
I've also frequented investing sites and read every book I could get my hands on - for years. So I know both sides of the coin. (Oh, and we mow and edge the lawn every 7-10 days, and there's no sign of grease in the kitchen, or mould in the bathroom.) ;-p
I guess what irritates me the most is, we approached each RE agent, explained our situation, asked if they could help (provide us with a rental - not just "consider" us), and if not we wouldn't be offended, but PLEASE just tell us so right now - so we're not wasting their time or our own.
Our situation? We had a limited time (two months at that stage) to vacate. The owner is moving back from SA to NSW and wants to live in his property again.
Presentation: My entire family has gone to agents dressed as we would to attend church.
Children: Several properties have been marketed as, "Ideal for the large family." Regardless, our children are not ferals. In fact we took them with us on purpose so agents could see that fact. They are reserved, courteous, and respectful of other people and their possessions. They sat quietly behind us as we spoke to each RE agent.
We have no pets.
Glowing references don't seem to have made any difference.
Centrelink recipients: Sure, ok. But many of the areas we've been looking in are filled with the same. The only difference being, we don't speak with that "bogan drawl" that is so common today. As previously mentioned, we're far from the stereotype, having ~$300k in savings. It's not like we'd have difficult paying the rent.
Care of the properties can't be their concern either. Example: A place we viewed yesterday, another couple at the viewing pointed out the HUGE puddles of red cordial spilled throughout the carpeting. The PM says, "Aw yeah, that's been there from a few tenants ago."
Paperwork: We have a folder containing photocopies ready to provide whatever each agent requires.
Offering rent in advance: Newcastle agents at least, don't seem interested. We've been met with a real, overall, apathy. (Hope for you guys' sake the rest of Australia isn't the same, LOL.)
Asking RE agents reason for non-acceptance: They've all stated their policy is not to provide this info.
We now have a week to vacate. It appears we'll have to discard most of our possessions, pack all five of us into a caravan (yet to purchase) and head to a caravan park. I'm basically fed up with the whole process - weary of being made to feel like beggers when the reality is we're providing an investor with income and trouble-free tenants.
Anyway, self justification wasn't the reason for my post. It was basically to say should I ever realise my dream of waving Centrelink goodbye by owning IPs, I'll be managing my own properties. There is no way in the world I'd accept some of the tenants I've seen chosen above us. Nor would I allow the pathetic Newcastle PMs that we've met to manage such a valuable asset.
I'd suggest (as many have before me) to apply the same level of due diligence to your PM as you would your RE purchases.
Appreciate the comments anyway.
I've also frequented investing sites and read every book I could get my hands on - for years. So I know both sides of the coin. (Oh, and we mow and edge the lawn every 7-10 days, and there's no sign of grease in the kitchen, or mould in the bathroom.) ;-p
I guess what irritates me the most is, we approached each RE agent, explained our situation, asked if they could help (provide us with a rental - not just "consider" us), and if not we wouldn't be offended, but PLEASE just tell us so right now - so we're not wasting their time or our own.
Our situation? We had a limited time (two months at that stage) to vacate. The owner is moving back from SA to NSW and wants to live in his property again.
Presentation: My entire family has gone to agents dressed as we would to attend church.
Children: Several properties have been marketed as, "Ideal for the large family." Regardless, our children are not ferals. In fact we took them with us on purpose so agents could see that fact. They are reserved, courteous, and respectful of other people and their possessions. They sat quietly behind us as we spoke to each RE agent.
We have no pets.
Glowing references don't seem to have made any difference.
Centrelink recipients: Sure, ok. But many of the areas we've been looking in are filled with the same. The only difference being, we don't speak with that "bogan drawl" that is so common today. As previously mentioned, we're far from the stereotype, having ~$300k in savings. It's not like we'd have difficult paying the rent.
Care of the properties can't be their concern either. Example: A place we viewed yesterday, another couple at the viewing pointed out the HUGE puddles of red cordial spilled throughout the carpeting. The PM says, "Aw yeah, that's been there from a few tenants ago."
Paperwork: We have a folder containing photocopies ready to provide whatever each agent requires.
Offering rent in advance: Newcastle agents at least, don't seem interested. We've been met with a real, overall, apathy. (Hope for you guys' sake the rest of Australia isn't the same, LOL.)
Asking RE agents reason for non-acceptance: They've all stated their policy is not to provide this info.
We now have a week to vacate. It appears we'll have to discard most of our possessions, pack all five of us into a caravan (yet to purchase) and head to a caravan park. I'm basically fed up with the whole process - weary of being made to feel like beggers when the reality is we're providing an investor with income and trouble-free tenants.
Anyway, self justification wasn't the reason for my post. It was basically to say should I ever realise my dream of waving Centrelink goodbye by owning IPs, I'll be managing my own properties. There is no way in the world I'd accept some of the tenants I've seen chosen above us. Nor would I allow the pathetic Newcastle PMs that we've met to manage such a valuable asset.
I'd suggest (as many have before me) to apply the same level of due diligence to your PM as you would your RE purchases.
Appreciate the comments anyway.
As already mentioned, offer 6 months upfront rent in your next application. If that doesn't work I will eat my hat.
I had a English family wanting to rent one of our properties,trying to organise everything from the UK.Was not interested till they offered a full 12 months up front,and it was too good to resist.They stayed 3 years.
You could pickup a 3 bedder for under $300k in one of those suburbs your looking at.
Speaking as an owner I have had my fingers burned every time my PM or I accepted a story in lieu of a demonstrated record, evidence not a plausible story. The evidence doesn't have to be a recent rental history.
The last knock we took involved a very canny thirty-something year old adventurer couple (a 'couple' of convenience it would appear) from overseas, one of whom was to complete higher level study. They knew how to fox some government departments too and they were very astute in sourcing (well-meaning) legal aid and advocacy to find ways to beat the system. Cost us and PM a lot of time, worry, $$ (legal advice as well) and lost opportunity. Clever operators. Could easily have cost more
Speaking generally and not challenging anything said here, even the best PMs will be gulled by some. The losses can easily be catastrophic for owners. That is why there is so much turnover of rental property investors and PMs (burn out). From an owner, "PMs please always err on the side of cautious risk management".
The last knock we took involved a very canny thirty-something year old adventurer couple (a 'couple' of convenience it would appear) from overseas, one of whom was to complete higher level study. They knew how to fox some government departments too and they were very astute in sourcing (well-meaning) legal aid and advocacy to find ways to beat the system. Cost us and PM a lot of time, worry, $$ (legal advice as well) and lost opportunity. Clever operators. Could easily have cost more
Speaking generally and not challenging anything said here, even the best PMs will be gulled by some. The losses can easily be catastrophic for owners. That is why there is so much turnover of rental property investors and PMs (burn out). From an owner, "PMs please always err on the side of cautious risk management".
Worth a try, thanks. We don't have much opportunities left though. We only have one viewing Saturday.
RE agents claim you can't apply for a rental now, without viewing the property first. Yet two properties where RE agents said they'd SMS once a viewing was set - were removed from the internet today. So either no-one viewed those properties, or they're liars.
We don't have much time left to waste though. Come Monday we'll probably start caravan shopping.
Have you tried Gumtree?
You can advertise your desires but also many private landlords advertise there
http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-property-for-rent/newcastle/c18364l3003104
You can advertise your desires but also many private landlords advertise there
http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-property-for-rent/newcastle/c18364l3003104
Newcastle is notoriously difficult to secure rentals.
I have a friend that owns two IP's in Melbourne, is an electrician with the same employer for 8 years and earns very good money who with his girlfriend- a radio program producer with a well known station and Newcastle resident, could not secure a rental property. I even had my property manager write them a reference. It took these 'ideal tenants' three months to secure a property.
I think that maybe something doesn't seem right, perhaps the property managers are picking up on this also. I am probably incorrect but if you somewhat portray a dislike to property managers while on face value are sickly sweet it may not sit right and be relayed to potential landlords.
Personally as a landlord, I would prefer not to have four young children in my property- I would rather have pets. You can always either remove an animal damaging a property or attempt to house it outside. You can't do that to children and as much as I love my nieces and nephews I cringe to the thought of texta on my walls, broken windows and damages x4 alongside wear and tear in one of my own properties.
I have a friend that owns two IP's in Melbourne, is an electrician with the same employer for 8 years and earns very good money who with his girlfriend- a radio program producer with a well known station and Newcastle resident, could not secure a rental property. I even had my property manager write them a reference. It took these 'ideal tenants' three months to secure a property.
I think that maybe something doesn't seem right, perhaps the property managers are picking up on this also. I am probably incorrect but if you somewhat portray a dislike to property managers while on face value are sickly sweet it may not sit right and be relayed to potential landlords.
Personally as a landlord, I would prefer not to have four young children in my property- I would rather have pets. You can always either remove an animal damaging a property or attempt to house it outside. You can't do that to children and as much as I love my nieces and nephews I cringe to the thought of texta on my walls, broken windows and damages x4 alongside wear and tear in one of my own properties.
I don't believe we've displayed a fake or poor attitude. But we're quickly developing one.
For example:
One RE advertised a viewing of two extremely similar rentals - in the same suburb - at the exact same time. I rang them and inquired about this. They said to go to one, then ring the office and have the person showing the second one wait for us. (The two rentals were close together.)
So we went to the office an hour before the viewings, hoping to speak to the two staff in person. They weren't there. So my wife asked about phoning #2 while viewing #1 (as the RE had TOLD me to do on the phone). They said they don't give out their mobile numbers - and they wouldn't arrange it for us either - because their "PMs are on tight schedules, so maybe you should either pick just one property to view, or, view the two properties separately."
How we're supposed to pick one over another without viewing them first, who knows. And I'm not leaving my wife alone on the side of the road in sweltering heat.
So we went to property #1. A few families were already waiting. Ten minutes later one group left. At fifteen minutes the clown still hadn't turned up. (So much for their schedule.) Since their viewings only last 15 minutes, we left for property #2. On arriving, the group that had left #1 were leaving to return to #1. They asked, "He's still not there hey?" We said no. The agent piped up and said, "I've just spoken to him - he is coming, he's just running late." The other group said, "We'll tell him to wait for you."
So we had a 30 second glance around #2. Then drove 2.5 minutes back to property #1. The other groups had all gone. No PM was there.
How the guy went from not even being there yet, to turning up, leading everyone through, and leaving again all in less than 2.5 minutes, amazes me.
For example:
One RE advertised a viewing of two extremely similar rentals - in the same suburb - at the exact same time. I rang them and inquired about this. They said to go to one, then ring the office and have the person showing the second one wait for us. (The two rentals were close together.)
So we went to the office an hour before the viewings, hoping to speak to the two staff in person. They weren't there. So my wife asked about phoning #2 while viewing #1 (as the RE had TOLD me to do on the phone). They said they don't give out their mobile numbers - and they wouldn't arrange it for us either - because their "PMs are on tight schedules, so maybe you should either pick just one property to view, or, view the two properties separately."
How we're supposed to pick one over another without viewing them first, who knows. And I'm not leaving my wife alone on the side of the road in sweltering heat.
So we went to property #1. A few families were already waiting. Ten minutes later one group left. At fifteen minutes the clown still hadn't turned up. (So much for their schedule.) Since their viewings only last 15 minutes, we left for property #2. On arriving, the group that had left #1 were leaving to return to #1. They asked, "He's still not there hey?" We said no. The agent piped up and said, "I've just spoken to him - he is coming, he's just running late." The other group said, "We'll tell him to wait for you."
So we had a 30 second glance around #2. Then drove 2.5 minutes back to property #1. The other groups had all gone. No PM was there.
How the guy went from not even being there yet, to turning up, leading everyone through, and leaving again all in less than 2.5 minutes, amazes me.
Well before jumping to conclusions consider this.
Agents won’t accept an application from a prospective tenant who has not viewed the property. What happens when the tenant views the property and decides they don’t like it?
In many cases a property may be shown to a vacating tenant currently on the rental role. The agent has had personal dealing s with them, they are good tenants, they sneak them through the home before everyone else and you know the rest.
If the agent has a good existing tenant, there is no reason to keep the property vacant longer than it needs to be.
When we sell a property with tenants and we need the tenants to vacate we usually do the same thing. I obtain a list of rentals coming on the market shortly. I then organise to get the tenant a exclusive viewing. If they like it they can have it. Basically, we can have a new tenant before the old one moves out.
Hi justallen
Is Scone too far for temporary accommodation for you? I have a property which will be vacant next weekend. It isn't my flashest IP but is very livable and is a 4 x 2 x 1 with large yard.
It may be suitable and you won't need to buy that caravan and store your furniture. Hate to think your family will need to do that for Christmas.
In my 10 years investing in the Hunter area, I have some whopper stories about REA's and PM's. I have only just changed PM's again this week.
My previous PM only accepted applications BEFORE viewing the property, and only those that were suitable were shown throgh the property. Needless to say time was wasted and I have had my longest between tenant time with them.
I would have thought it normal if I didn't have other PM's who are so good in other areas.
Sunshine
Is Scone too far for temporary accommodation for you? I have a property which will be vacant next weekend. It isn't my flashest IP but is very livable and is a 4 x 2 x 1 with large yard.
It may be suitable and you won't need to buy that caravan and store your furniture. Hate to think your family will need to do that for Christmas.
In my 10 years investing in the Hunter area, I have some whopper stories about REA's and PM's. I have only just changed PM's again this week.
My previous PM only accepted applications BEFORE viewing the property, and only those that were suitable were shown throgh the property. Needless to say time was wasted and I have had my longest between tenant time with them.
I would have thought it normal if I didn't have other PM's who are so good in other areas.
Sunshine
Because apparently its OK to take tax payer money from Centrelink every fortnight while having $300k in the bank.
OP: I would suggest the reliance on a Centrelink payment is the main reason for not being successful... centrelink puts you towards the bottom of the pile compared to working families, the agents probably dont even get to the bit about having money in the bank before you get rejected. Consider doing a cover letter explaining your situation and savings position.
I would suggest that the number of people on your application is a deterrent. I rent to many many families, and I have no prejudice against children. Many of my friends have children and I am confident in my abilities to select good tenants, regardless of number of children.
Having said that, if there is another application on the table without children, it would be extremely unlikely that an owner would choose yours. Less people = perception of less wear & tear. I have not personally experienced an owner preferring an application with children. Generally clients will forgive other drawbacks (often against my strong opinion) and choose an application with fewer people/no kids/no pets etc.
Interestingly, I have also rejected an application from one of my owners, who wanted to rent another property through us. She was frustrated with the decision, but ultimately understood that the owner of the house in question had made a decision, and if it were her decision to make, she would have proceeded with the better application.
I don't know how competitive the market in Newcastle is, but I just put a new tenant in my own IP in Brisbane and I received 4 applications.
All 4 applications were for: a young couple, no kids, full time employment in stable jobs. All but one couple had rented previously for 6-12 months, and references were good.
I ended up selecting the one couple who had not rented before. Of the last 20 tenancies that I have terminated and had major dramas with, none of them were first time renters. I have had nothing but good experiences with first time tenants, and I also considered that the 3 other applicants would be suitable for some of our available properties at work.
Also just in relation to the OP - There is an important distinction between a 'rejected' application and an 'unsuccessful' one. Very few applications that I receive do I consider 'rejected' on lack of merit. Most applications that come through our business are actually pretty good, and it can be tough rejecting a young family when you don't really have a good reason to do so (other than "Sorry, but the owner chose to approve another application").
Having said that, if there is another application on the table without children, it would be extremely unlikely that an owner would choose yours. Less people = perception of less wear & tear. I have not personally experienced an owner preferring an application with children. Generally clients will forgive other drawbacks (often against my strong opinion) and choose an application with fewer people/no kids/no pets etc.
Interestingly, I have also rejected an application from one of my owners, who wanted to rent another property through us. She was frustrated with the decision, but ultimately understood that the owner of the house in question had made a decision, and if it were her decision to make, she would have proceeded with the better application.
I don't know how competitive the market in Newcastle is, but I just put a new tenant in my own IP in Brisbane and I received 4 applications.
All 4 applications were for: a young couple, no kids, full time employment in stable jobs. All but one couple had rented previously for 6-12 months, and references were good.
I ended up selecting the one couple who had not rented before. Of the last 20 tenancies that I have terminated and had major dramas with, none of them were first time renters. I have had nothing but good experiences with first time tenants, and I also considered that the 3 other applicants would be suitable for some of our available properties at work.
Also just in relation to the OP - There is an important distinction between a 'rejected' application and an 'unsuccessful' one. Very few applications that I receive do I consider 'rejected' on lack of merit. Most applications that come through our business are actually pretty good, and it can be tough rejecting a young family when you don't really have a good reason to do so (other than "Sorry, but the owner chose to approve another application").
Thanks for the suggestion.
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