is leasing to sublet legal?

[graisme]

hi all
can anyone tell me whether it is legal to lease to relet to others without living at the property?

my son moved into a property in central melb cbd yesterday at $250/wk/ room. when he arrived, he discovered that there were in 3 others living there; a couple paying $330/wk and another girl. assuming that the third girl is paying $200+ for her room, this guy is taking $780+ for a 3 bedroom unit.

this would seem that he is making almost $300/wk on this flat.

is this legal?

he took a bond from my son that will not go to the bond board as 'he has already paid the bond' and the 'lease' was a handtyped list of costs which they both signed.

the leasor is insisting on the rent being paid a month in advance as well as the month's 'bond' that my son paid yesterday. as someone had just moved out, the place was dirty and we spent a couple of hours cleaning it.

if this is legal at all, am i right in thinking that this leasor has no 'rights' to demand a month's rent in advance? my thinking is that if my son wanted to move, he should just let the rent/bond run out and not pay anymore until the amount paid in advance had run out. this would mean no rent paid for the last two months of the occupation though.

my son signed the sheet of paper for an 8 month term. am i right in thinking that that sheet of paper would not hold up anywhere?

thanks all
grace

 

[GoAnna!]

On the face of it it does not sound legal.

It is hardly a standard resi tenancy and although the bond may have already been paid a form can be sent to acknowledge that the bond has effectly swapped hands. Under the current arrangement it would sound as if the bond is not protected at all. I would never normally suggest this but given the lack of protection using the bond as rent might be the safest option.

Perhaps an anonomous call to the Office of Fair Trading to see where things stand legally might be te best way forward.

Hard to know if he is renting from the owner or a tenant who is subletting.

How was the situation explained to your son? How are utilities etc paid for or do they form part of the rent?

 

[Perp]

The tenant has to have the permission of the landlord to sub-let, and I doubt that he does. It all sounds highly suspicious to me, and I suspect it's not legal.

 

[Xenia]

If the lessor is a tenant of the person who owns the house then your son will not be obligated to pay rent to the owner. The lessor is obligated by law to ensure that all tenant obligations including rent, upkeep of property etc are met.

Not sure about the contract between your son and the tenant, this is out of tenancy laws and probably falls into some commercial arrangement.

Yes it is legal to sublease.

 

[The Y-man]

My take is that the arrangement should come under the rooming house provision in Victoria.

The "head tenant" should be considered the "rooming house" manager and have all the responsiblities of a "rooming house" owner.

http://www.consumer.vic.gov.au/CA25...ument&1=910-Renting~&2=60-Rooming+Houses~&3=~

Cheers,

The Y-man

 

[graisme]

thanks everyone for taking the time to reply. the consumer affairs booklet made interesting reading. whilst it is legal, the leasor is liable for nearly $3000 in fines if they were imposed at the amounts listed in the booklet!

 

[GoAnna!]

thanks everyone for taking the time to reply. the consumer affairs booklet made interesting reading. whilst it is legal, the leasor is liable for nearly $3000 in fines if they were imposed at the amounts listed in the booklet!

Assuming of course that this guy is either the owner or his landlord has approved the arrangement.

 

[graisme]

hi all
from what i've read, it seems a bit ambiguous whether it is a rooming house or a tenancy arrangement. can anyone clarify it for me?

it seems that 4 or over constitute a rooming house but under that is not. if it is a rooming house, there are all sorts of fines. if not, the leasor can get away with a lot more.

there are 4 people living there but two of them are a couple so have signed the one agreement. goes into a grey area there...

also, any clues as to how to find out the owner of the unit?

 

[Perp]

I don't believe that it is a rooming house. The relevant number is the number of tenancy agreements, not people, so in your case, 3. When it refers to "tenants" it means lease agreements; a family of 4 renting a property is a single tenant, not four tenants.

I disagree with several others; I believe your son is a sub-tenant. As such, the head tenant (the person your son is dealing with) is responsible to do all the same things the landlord would do if dealing directly with your son - lodge a bond, have a lease agreement that complies with legislation, etc. The amount of rent in advance etc would be the same as if your son were renting directly from the owner.

 

[graisme]

ozperp; your answer was succinct and articulate, thanks. clears it up, i agree with you.

 

[leiw16]

I don't believe that it is a rooming house. The relevant number is the number of tenancy agreements, not people, so in your case, 3. When it refers to "tenants" it means lease agreements; a family of 4 renting a property is a single tenant, not four tenants.

I disagree with several others; I believe your son is a sub-tenant. As such, the head tenant (the person your son is dealing with) is responsible to do all the same things the landlord would do if dealing directly with your son - lodge a bond, have a lease agreement that complies with legislation, etc. The amount of rent in advance etc would be the same as if your son were renting directly from the owner.

Tracey, I'm very keen on a property in NSW which has 7 bedrooms and I plan to rent out 6 rooms on separate lease while live in the 7th bedroom with my partner...would that qualify as rooming/boarding/subletting?

It's very confusing trying to dig through all the gov regulations, rules and fines. I'm reading this brochure on vic gov regulation on rooming house...and I really feel that the gov is trying to dictate too many rules... if they are so concerned with greedy landlord trying to taking advantage of vulnerable tenants...they should try to provide the accomodation themselves...

I have been a tenant myself for the past 5 years and lived in shared accomodation... my partner has a 3br property we are subletting... instead of the gov dictate how many weeks of bond is acceptable... or tenant should has a say in the house rules...apart from fire/safety regulations...i feel that the gov should only dictate that landlord has the duty to layout all the rules and fineprints on the table and make sure the expectations for both party is clear before the tenant decide to take up the lease...if the tenant feel the landlord is greedy or unfair and not willing to negotiate...then he/she has the choice to go else where...

Personally i feel the landlord in this case is a bit too demanding...wanting 4 weeks bond and 4 week rent in advance and minimum stay 8 months...but as long as he keeps to the agreement there shouldn't be any concern...

just my personal opinion having came from both side of the table and gotten taken advantage of once where the landlord tried to pocket my bond...

 

[Perp]

Tracey, I'm very keen on a property in NSW which has 7 bedrooms and I plan to rent out 6 rooms on separate lease while live in the 7th bedroom with my partner...

It looks to me like you could possibly do this in NSW and treat the other 6 tenants as "lodgers", who aren't really protected by any legislation. That's pretty amazing; it sounds like NSW is far less regulated in this area than QLD or Vic.

I really feel that the gov is trying to dictate too many rules...

Don't we all? Still, if the rules exist, it doesn't pay to try and operate outside them.