June Median house prices - when?

June Median house prices - up, down or flat?

Morning All,

What are peoples thoughts on Median house prices for June, especially for the Melbourne market?

I believe that Enzo will do his best to cook the books as usual, but there will be no hiding a reduced Median house price as compared to May.

With a bit of help from the media, investors should then enter a period of "Wait and see", not wanting to buy at the top of the market.
Eg, articles like this already sprouting up:
http://www.smartcompany.com.au/econ...of-property-market-until-bargains-appear.html

Spring will be a great test for the strength of the Melbourne market. Interesting times!
 
IMO watching month to month medians is a joke. A house is not a share like BHP where they are all the same.

In my own suburb there are only 12 - 24 sales made per year. The month to month median swings from $800K (on the waterfront) to $280K for a cheapie.

Even where you have larger numbers of sales, I'd be collecting at least 6 months worth of data before trying to draw any conclusions from what would appear to be a trend.
 
IMO watching month to month medians is a joke. A house is not a share like BHP where they are all the same.

In my own suburb there are only 12 - 24 sales made per year. The month to month median swings from $800K (on the waterfront) to $280K for a cheapie.

Even where you have larger numbers of sales, I'd be collecting at least 6 months worth of data before trying to draw any conclusions from what would appear to be a trend.

Yes, all good points as usual Propertunity.

My main reason for interest in these numbers is that I believe we are currently at a cyclical turning point for the market. June saw a record number of auctions sold in Melbourne (I'm sure someone can provide the exact volume) so I for one will be interested to see how prices/demand held up under such massive supply.

It is not coincidence that the two record breaking Auction weekends in July occured 6 weeks after Anzac Day; smart money got up and packed its bags.
 
.... investors should then enter a period of "Wait and see", not wanting to buy at the top of the market.

Good luck with trying to pick the 'top of the market'. :p

Last year I had many of my clients saying to me, and rightly so, that they were paying the highest price ever for that particular property. My response was "yes.... so?"
Those properties then went on to grow another 10-15% since then in just the last 6 months.

If you are investing, then sure buy counter-cyclically and in other cities that suit your criteria and are in a different part of the cycle. But to sit and watch the Melbourne CG chart, waiting for a dip is just insane IMO. You will only recognise the dip after the growth has begun again - all such growth you will have missed out on.
 
at the mention of anyone mentioning median house price" i switch off totally...its 110% meaningless to use this as a guage for anything home related...

Agents use it often when it suits them and the figures look sharp,,,thats the only use it has....to create an often false impression of the actual "real" market.

Best of luck
 
Good luck with trying to pick the 'top of the market'. :p

Last year I had many of my clients saying to me, and rightly so, that they were paying the highest price ever for that particular property. My response was "yes.... so?"
Those properties then went on to grow another 10-15% since then in just the last 6 months.

If you are investing, then sure buy counter-cyclically and in other cities that suit your criteria and are in a different part of the cycle. But to sit and watch the Melbourne CG chart, waiting for a dip is just insane IMO. You will only recognise the dip after the growth has begun again - all such growth you will have missed out on.

did the people sell for the 10/15 % profit if not its all pie in the sky ..
 
did the people sell for the 10/15 % profit if not its all pie in the sky ..

Refinancing at 10 - 15% profit is still cash in the hand, as well. Perceived value (confirmed by the bank's assessment) is often more important to a buy-and-hold investor than market value (confirmed by a purchaser).
 
the bread just doesnt cut it!

the confusion using "medium"

june; 100 loaves of bread were sold at $1.00 medium price is $1.00.............

then comes july: only 60 leaves were sold at $1.00 (medium price is still $1.00.....

then say august just 10 loaves were sold at $2.00 so the medium price is $2.00................makes the market look buoyant and prices have increased when in fact the actual figures are very abnormal...........no different in the r/e game.

volumes are often a major key.

Just like in the stockmarket, volumes push up the ticker price quite often.

I also note on re.com.au that in many areas agents are now not disclosing sale prices in huge numbers on that site...

Shame they forget most investors have access to prices of sales........in my area up until last month this was a rare occurrence, now they are running and hiding sale prices.........more downside pressure to come in my opinion, at least in my area...

best of luck you "medium house price" lovers! its all smoke and mirrors!
 
What are peoples thoughts on Median house prices for June, especially for the Melbourne market?

Spring will be a great test for the strength of the Melbourne market. Interesting times!

Here are the medians for Melbourne houses for the first 5 months of the year (source: Residex), Jan 539,000, Feb 547,500, March 562,500, April 580,500, May 582,000. As you can see Melbourne was still making leaps and bounds for the first 4 months, but May it stopped almost dead in it's tracks. I would suggest for the month of June we will either see a slight decline or another "stagnant" month. Reality is that Melbourne is likely at the peak of a very strong cycle of growth. We are likely in for a correction in prices and years of stagnation. Anyone expecting strong capital growth in Melbourne in the near term is not looking at the underlying data (IMHO).

We should have seen the stagnation/correction start in 2008, however an extra deposit boost for FHBs and changes to the foreign ownership rules pushed housing into a speculative mania in which already overpriced housing rose to even more extraordinary levels.

I agree with your comment about Spring, this will be a real test not only for the Melbourne market, but Australia wide. If auction stock is anything to go by we have a lot more supply on the market than the same time last year. I have been following the REIV statistics quite closely and for the last 3-4 months Melbourne has had approximately double the stock being auctioned as last year. Take note of some recent posts by user demographics:
http://www.somersoft.com/forums/member.php?u=18475

I would pay not so much attention to the lack of sales data he is quoting (which may be incomplete), but checkout the number of new listings that are hitting the market in the areas he is profiling. In my opinion we are seeing and will continue to see a flood of property hit the market over the next several months and prices could take a severe hit if sellers start leapfrogging eachother to the downside like buyers do to eachother on the upside.

Some may say this sounds extreme, however we have had potential for a huge problem manufactured with free deposit money and historically low record rates only 12 months ago. I made note of the fact earlier this year that there was a huge increase in the number of intro interest rates taken up during early 2009:
http://www.somersoft.com/forums/showpost.php?p=640262&postcount=33

This is when some financiers were offering 12 month intro periods with interest rates as low as 3-4%, if these buyers have not factored in the expense of an interest rate rise to 7%+ then how many months will they struggle on before they end up with a forced sale?

Even where you have larger numbers of sales, I'd be collecting at least 6 months worth of data before trying to draw any conclusions from what would appear to be a trend.
I believe we have 6 months worth of falling lending growth (still rising, albeit at slower pace), 3 months trend in falling clearance rates for Melbourne auctions, what are the conclusions you are drawing from these trends, given the RBAs position that lending growth, clearance rates & capital growth are all correlated in normal conditions?

June saw a record number of auctions sold in Melbourne (I'm sure someone can provide the exact volume) so I for one will be interested to see how prices/demand held up under such massive supply.
Hmm I don't believe this correlates with the data I have collected and observed (May has the higher volume, both in real terms and averaged over all weekends, even with the June long weekend removed), see attached for some interesting stats/trends...we have clearance rates falling, volume fell last weekend to the lowest since Feb, average price at auction also fell to Feb lows...looking bleak, very bleak.
 

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Here are the medians for Melbourne houses for the first 5 months of the year (source: Residex), Jan 539,000, Feb 547,500, March 562,500, April 580,500, May 582,000. As you can see Melbourne was still making leaps and bounds for the first 4 months, but May it stopped almost dead in it's tracks. I would suggest for the month of June we will either see a slight decline or another "stagnant" month. Reality is that Melbourne is likely at the peak of a very strong cycle of growth. We are likely in for a correction in prices and years of stagnation. Anyone expecting strong capital growth in Melbourne in the near term is not looking at the underlying data (IMHO).

We should have seen the stagnation/correction start in 2008, however an extra deposit boost for FHBs and changes to the foreign ownership rules pushed housing into a speculative mania in which already overpriced housing rose to even more extraordinary levels.

I agree with your comment about Spring, this will be a real test not only for the Melbourne market, but Australia wide. If auction stock is anything to go by we have a lot more supply on the market than the same time last year. I have been following the REIV statistics quite closely and for the last 3-4 months Melbourne has had approximately double the stock being auctioned as last year. Take note of some recent posts by user demographics:
http://www.somersoft.com/forums/member.php?u=18475

I would pay not so much attention to the lack of sales data he is quoting (which may be incomplete), but checkout the number of new listings that are hitting the market in the areas he is profiling. In my opinion we are seeing and will continue to see a flood of property hit the market over the next several months and prices could take a severe hit if sellers start leapfrogging eachother to the downside like buyers do to eachother on the upside.

Some may say this sounds extreme, however we have had potential for a huge problem manufactured with free deposit money and historically low record rates only 12 months ago. I made note of the fact earlier this year that there was a huge increase in the number of intro interest rates taken up during early 2009:
http://www.somersoft.com/forums/showpost.php?p=640262&postcount=33

This is when some financiers were offering 12 month intro periods with interest rates as low as 3-4%, if these buyers have not factored in the expense of an interest rate rise to 7%+ then how many months will they struggle on before they end up with a forced sale?


I believe we have 6 months worth of falling lending growth (still rising, albeit at slower pace), 3 months trend in falling clearance rates for Melbourne auctions, what are the conclusions you are drawing from these trends, given the RBAs position that lending growth, clearance rates & capital growth are all correlated in normal conditions?


Hmm I don't believe this correlates with the data I have collected and observed (May has the higher volume, both in real terms and averaged over all weekends, even with the June long weekend removed), see attached for some interesting stats/trends...we have clearance rates falling, volume fell last weekend to the lowest since Feb, average price at auction also fell to Feb lows...looking bleak, very bleak.

So in terms of the "natural cycle" of real estate in Victoria, the market should have begun to flatten off way back in 2008? And instead of that happening, we have seen some of the most over-inflated prices in history during 09 & 2010, principally because of 2 factors: First Home Vendors Grant & Foreigners purchasing Aussie land.

The bit that I really love is listening to Enzo Raimondo attempt to hold up the market as soon as prices begin to become affordable, and I quote:

"Victoria has one of the strongest economies in the nation and we should take advantage of that by helping first home buyers in the same way as four other states: give first home buyers a 100 per cent discount on stamp duty for an average home." Enzo Raimondo, June 2010

Also this nugget of Gold:
"REIV chief executive Enzo Raimondo called on governments to increase first home buyer grants for existing homes and cut stamp duty for first home buyers." July 2010

This is the white elephant in the room for anyone with a vested interest in Australian property: For how long will industry goons like Enzo Raimondo be able to convince the government that house prices require artificially propping up? Falsely inflating the market by enticing further demand that should not otherwise exist is just smoke and mirrors in anyones book.

Where was Enzo six months ago when prices were breaking all sorts of records and the first home owners needed him most? Now that affordability has a chance of coming back, he's got his fingers in the government stimulus pie to ruin things for 1st home owners again!
 
So in terms of the "natural cycle" of real estate in Victoria, the market should have begun to flatten off way back in 2008? And instead of that happening, we have seen some of the most over-inflated prices in history during 09 & 2010, principally because of 2 factors: First Home Vendors Grant & Foreigners purchasing Aussie land.
Well that is my opinion on where we are based on the data that I have seen/analysed.

The other major factor (well let's call it a "multiplier") was record low interest rates which along with the extra deposit allowed FHBs to leverage to ridiculous levels.

I would love to see someone else post that Melbourne is infact at the start of a new boom and provide their reasoning behind it.

Also this nugget of Gold:
"REIV chief executive Enzo Raimondo called on governments to increase first home buyer grants for existing homes and cut stamp duty for first home buyers." July 2010
Enzo is a tool, but in his defense I believe he has been battling for an increased FHOG since it was removed 6 months ago:
http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-new...le-first-home-buyers-grant-20100114-m9as.html

I think many will soon start to realise that we need sales happening at all levels for these market prices to be sustained. You can't very well blow up the first level of a building and expect the top levels to remain intact/upright. The market has been running on fumes the last 6 months with upgraders, foreign buyers (for first couple of months) and cash buyers driving the market for a while, but there is only so long this can go on with the few number of entry level purchases that are being made. There is some investor demand picking up the slack for reduction in numbers of FHBs, but it won't be enough.

IMO First Home Owner schemes are fine, but blanket deposits/boosts are not the answer. We need to look at sustainable alternatives. The First Home Saver account is a great idea, but IMO they should remove the grant completely or at least make it only available for brand new purchases to fund extra development.
 
I think many will soon start to realise that we need sales happening at all levels for these market prices to be sustained. You can't very well blow up the first level of a building and expect the top levels to remain intact/upright. The market has been running on fumes the last 6 months with upgraders, foreign buyers (for first couple of months) and cash buyers driving the market for a while, but there is only so long this can go on with the few number of entry level purchases that are being made. There is some investor demand picking up the slack for reduction in numbers of FHBs, but it won't be enough.
You make some good points but FHBs only make up around 20% of the market in 'normal conditions'.

The First Home Saver account is a great idea, but IMO they should remove the grant completely or at least make it only available for brand new purchases to fund extra development.
I absolutely agree with you on this. And it is good to see the NSW govt. giving Stamp Duty concessions in the direction of brand new stuff too.
 
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