Microchip population very near - they won't need a census anymore!

Aceyducey said:
Here's a subliminal message for people who believe this thread:

Find a conspiracy forum, leave the Somersoft property forum.

I think this topic is very interesting and it affects our future and how we live. If people r too lazy to think about implications (both good and bad) of this topic, instead of asking those who want to talk about it to leave, shouldn’t they be the one to not read this thread? All they want is to hand their life and future for those who are making the decisions to decide for them, and they don’t even allow others to discuss it. Furthermore, it isn’t conspiracy ’theory’ if it has facts & reports behind it. It’s even in the news. It’s a big debate now in America. All it is, is Controversial. And I thought we live in a country where we have free speech. This is Australia isn’t it? What? You are the information nazi? Or you are the shareholder in that company?
 
Simon said:
Andrew,

i don't see what you are saying - can you explain your point further or perhaps illustrate it with an example?

Thanks

Simon,

How to explain what is essentially a complex issue. I do not believe that all the information currently on file is there for the benefit of me as an individual and depending on the filters applied to this information I could be seen as either a sinner or a saint.

Now imagine that I get fitted with a smart ID that carries all the information that someone determines is important. This in essence becomes who I am as far as the world is concerned. My aspirations and dreams may become limited by this limited view.

This may seem far fetched however, once the information is collected and is put into the public areana it is up to someone else to determine how this information is used.

Don't think it can happen? There are plenty of examples throughout history of people being enslaved or otherwise misused simply because of the facts known about them; religion, colour, political belief. We will never trully live in a totally free world.

I am not saying that this is what the information is being gathered for, I am simply saying once the information is available there is no way of knowing how it will be used in the future.

Think about the development of the airplane, first man wanted to fly, then man became proficient at flight, then man used the airplane as a weapon. Did the Wright Brothers start out designing a weapon? No. Did they have any say when it came to being used as a weapon? No again.

At the end of the day, only I have my best interests at heart. And I believe my best interest is served in limiting the information available about me as much as possible.

Hope the point I am trying to make is a little clearer.

Regards

Andrew
 
Simon,

See what I mean.

Do you think the person who designed the first nuclear bomb imagined it would be used as a mini-bomb? This is completely against the original intention.

Andrew
 
Read this article - statements by a retired FBI high ranking official. (Not by me)

---------------paste------------------------

Retired FBI Official Accuses U.S. Intelligence Agencies of Domestic Terrorist Attacks
By Alejandra Rodriguez
Apr 18, 2004, 22:55


More than 2,000 people died on Sept.11, 2001. Six persons died when the World Trade Centers were attacked in 1993, and 168 perished in the 1995 Oklahoma City bombing. The culprits behind these attacks were sought out and discovered by U.S. investigators. Now, imagine adding the U.S. government to the nation’s most wanted list as partners in these crimes.

According to Ted Gunderson, 72, a high-ranking retired FBI official, detailed documentary material reveals the U.S. government’s involvement in 9-11. Gunderson claims that FBI-CIA operatives also orchestrated the 1993 bombing of the World Trade Center and the Oklahoma City bombing of the Murrah Federal Building.

Gunderson’s charges are particularly powerful because of who he happens to be: Gunderson is a 27-year FBI veteran. He was the bureau chief in charge of the Los Angeles FBI. In Los Angeles, Gunderson had over 700 people under his command and operated a $22 million budget.

Nowadays, Gunderson operates an international security-consulting agency based in Los Angeles. He is also a correspondent for the American Free Press.

In a recent interview in Boston recorded for the Pacifica radio network, Gunderson claims that after government officials failed repeatedly to gain passage of the Anti-Terrorism Law, the FBI organized the 1993 attack on the World Trade Center to instill fear into the American people and eventually get the buy-in from Congress.

According to Gunderson, Imad Salem, an FBI informant, was hired to make the 1993 car bomb that exploded in the World Trade Building in 1993. Salem was to thwart the plotters by substituting harmless powder for the explosives, but Gunderson says FBI handler John Anderson took Salem off the case and didn’t act on the threat. The van was supposed to park next to a pillar in the underground garage, but another car was in the way. Therefore, the bomb-loaded van was parked as close as possible, killing six people and injuring more than 1000 people. A New York Times article published Oct. 28, 1993, confirms the FBI’s foreknowledge of the 1993 attack and includes excerpts of Salem’s conversation with FBI officials.

Gunderson says that two years later the FBI carried out the Oklahoma City bombing of the Murrah Federal Building. Publicly available reports on the events of that day say that the bomb used was a fertilizer bomb. But according to Gunderson, a fertilizer bomb is not powerful enough to do the extent of damage that was done. Gunderson claims the bomb used was an electro-hydro-dynamic gaseous fuel device, known to intelligence agents as a barometric bomb.

Michael Riconosciuto, a former CIA agent and a colleague of Gunderson, created the barometric bomb for the CIA in 1982. The bomb was first used in the high security test site, called Area-51, in Nevada. It was so powerful that it killed two technicians in its initial test run. Gunderson says that at the time of the 1993 bombing only 10 scientists, all CIA operatives, knew how to create the bomb.

After a thorough investigation of the Oklahoma City bombing, Gunderson uncovered a discrepancy in the FBI report. According to an article in a national fireman’s magazine, there were five bombs inside the building – one exploded and the other four were found in tact. According to eyewitness reports, two explosions were heard. The implication is that someone planted the bombs inside the building. According to Gunderson, the unaccounted-for bomb was the barometric bomb that caused the extensive damage to the building and the deaths of 168 people.

Gunderson says Timothy McVeigh, the man executed for the crime, was recruited by CIA as an assassin and the Oklahoma City bombing was only an assignment.

Gunderson’s name and his charges are all over the Internet; mainstream papers have yet to report on his theories. KPFT, a Pacifica Foundation community-supported non-profit radio station in Houston, ran a broadcast of an interview with Gunderson in March 2004.

Although American mainstream papers are not covering Gunderson’s theories, a few have published reports that have uncovered the government foreknowledge of the attacks.
“Our government is masters at creating a crisis for its own game, then covering it up. Mainstream media goes right along with it,” says Gunderson.


© Copyright World News 2006-07
--------------------------end of article------



There is also bare evidence in the US from the fireman who were in WTC in 9/11 that 'secondary devices' (ie, explosives/detonators) were in the WTC lower grounds. These were actually live recorded reports from the firemen via their communication systems between the firemen on the scene and their headquarters and fire chief. One said "isolated fires" "there is another isolated explosion caused by secondary device".

Why didn't the 9/11 commission believe or publish all these in their final report and insists that it was the planes and fire that caused the tower to collapse?

Read article below for the survivors and firemen's testimonials. The things that the major newspaper didn't make them to the headlines:

------------------------------------
9/11 Firefighters: Bombs and
Explosions in the WTC


[Firefighter Louie] Cacchioli was called to testify privately [before the 9/11 Commission], but walked out on several members of the committee before they finished, feeling like he was being interrogated and cross-examined rather than simply allowed to tell the truth about what occurred in the north tower on 9/11. "My story was never mentioned in the final report [PDF download] and I felt like I was being put on trial in a court room," said Cacchioli. "I finally walked out. They were trying to twist my words and make the story fit only what they wanted to hear. All I wanted to do was tell the truth and when they wouldn't let me do that, I walked out. ... It was a disgrace to everyone, the victims and the family members who lost loved ones. I don't agree with the 9/11 Commission. The whole experience was terrible." [Arctic Beacon]


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Edmund McNally phoned his wife Liz twice following the [WTC 2] aircraft impact. Mr McNally said in his second phone call "Liz, this was a terrorist attack. I can hear explosions below me.'' [NY Times]
Tom Elliott, WTC 2 survivor: They saw only two firemen going up. They told them there had been an explosion near the 60th floor. [csmonitor]

Kim White, WTC 1 survivor: We got down as far as the 74th floor ... Then there was another explosion, so we left again by the stairwell. [People]
Explosions occurred below the aircraft impact levels in both towers prior to the collapses. The following gives a reason for the explosions:


9/11 NBC News broadcast
[wma download]
"Shortly after 9 o'clock ... [Albert Turi the Chief of Safety for the New York Fire Department] received word of the possibility of a secondary device, that is another bomb going off. He tried to get his men out as quickly as he could, but he said there was another explosion which took place, and then an hour after the first hit - the first crash that took place - he said there was another explosion that took place in one of the towers here, so obviously according to his theory he thinks that there were actually devices that were planted in the building.


Two WTC impacts. Three explosions reported.


One of the secondary devices he thinks that took place after the initial impact he thinks may have been on the plane that crashed into one of the towers. The second device - he thinks, he speculates - was probably planted in the building. ... But the bottom line is that he, Albert Turi, said that he probably lost a great many men in those secondary explosions, and he said that there were literally hundreds, if not thousands, of people in those towers when the explosions took place."

"...then somebody said that they saw an airliner go into one of those towers. Then, an hour later than that we had that big explosion from much, much lower down and I don't know what caused that."
WMV video download (268kB)



Lou Cacchioli, Firefighter in WTC 1: At that point, Cacchioli found one of the only functioning elevators, one only going as high as the 24th floor ... "Tommy Hetzel was with me and everybody else also gets out of the elevator when it stops on the 24th floor," said Cacchioli, "There was a huge amount of smoke. Tommy and I had to go back down the elevator for tools and no sooner did the elevators close behind us, we heard this huge explosion that sounded like a bomb. It was such a loud noise, it knocked off the lights and stalled the elevator.

"Luckily, we weren't caught between floors and were able to pry open the doors. People were going crazy, yelling and screaming. And all the time, I am crawling low and making my way in the dark with a flashlight to the staircase and thinking Tommy is right behind me. "I somehow got into the stairwell and there were more people there. When I began to try and direct down, another huge explosion like the first one hits. This one hits about two minutes later, although it's hard to tell, but I'm thinking, 'Oh. My God, these *******s put bombs in here like they did in 1993!' [Arctic Beacon]

"There's a bomb in the building - start clearing out"..."We got a secondary device in the building"


------------------------------end of article-----------------------

See, these are hard evidence, testimonies and facts from the courtroom and minor articles that didn't make the headlines. Not mere theories. Just because the main media don't dare to publish it because they side the government. These evidence and testominies came from eyewitness and people who were working with the FBI and fire department. COuld they all be lying yet their testimonials are more consistent than the govt's reports which are always out of line with the facts and incongruent? See the govt final official report says in Oklahoma it was fertilizer bombs, but the top US bomb expert says it is impossible for weak fertilizer bombs to do that sort of damage. The official report for 9/11 is that fire weakened the structures that caused the towers to come down. But top engineers and investigation teams say fire cannot bring a steel and concrete structure down that way as in the footages we see on tv. They say it must have been explosives. Even the firemen on the scene said 'secondary devices'. But what do the media and official reports say? Fire weakened the steel structures.

The govt helped to masterplan it, then try to blame it on terrorists. (not to say that terrorists wouldn't do it if they had the chance tho). The agenda? All for the sake for passing that law anti-terrorism thru Constitution and an excuse for war, and lessening the people's privacy by increading fear. If you give the people something to fear and it's out of their control, they will do anything including giving up their freedom and privacy, and they will let you control them in order to 'safeguard' them.

before reading these non-headline articles you could have claimed ignorance, but the evidence, testimonials, & facts are in your face, if you choose to turn a blind eye, then it shows how much your need for comfort for the norm of "evertyhing is fine, the govt & fbi will take care of it".

**** People try to dismiss controversial topics, because it gives them one thing less to think and worry about, so they can get caught up in their daily life and not have to bother*********
 
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Bargain Hunter said:
Simon,

See what I mean.

Do you think the person who designed the first nuclear bomb imagined it would be used as a mini-bomb? This is completely against the original intention.

Andrew

Based on that report you now believe that CIA mini bomb was used in Bali?

I now understand how these conspiracy theories grow wings.
 
Simon said:
Based on that report you now believe that CIA mini bomb was used in Bali?

I now understand how these conspiracy theories grow wings.


Simon,

You missed the sarcasm. :(

The guy built a BIG bomb for maximum power and these scumbags turn it into a firecracker.

Regards

Andrew
 
ah well - if they are interested in what time i go to bed, how much time i spend on ss, when i poop, what i clothes shops i prefer to window shop in and all the other equally boring aspects of someone else's life - good on them.

do i look like i care :rolleyes:

as long as we don't end up like "logan's run" (remember that show for the 70's?) where they would knock off anyone past working age ...
 
Lizzie, they are not interested in what colour shirt you wear. Why should they? What they want is to control information, to have everything under their grasp, like Big Brother to the world. Why? Not just to know what time you go to bed or toilet, but to be in control of the population as a whole. For what reason? Only they know.

Don't believe any of these? Still think the government is always good and clean? NO cover ups? Governments don't lie, no secret agendas? You guys are too 'innocent', the government sure love coorporative good citizens like you!

Watch these clips below, ex-CIA agents who came out to tell what dirty tricks the US government was secretly up to. These ex-agents were traumatized by the immoral things they were ordered to do(including assasination, and poisoning milk supply for a school!), and they watched how the 'official reports' covered up their missions with false reports/ bribed reports etc to the media.

CIA working undercover to overthrow governments of other countries, assasination, selling weapons to rebels, injecting cash to support rebels.
Just love how President Reagan had to apologize to the public for telling them lies. I just love the way he apologized, as if he didn't know any of that.

CIA Cover Ups
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuKiZRQngMk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8Ka7Eknv1c&mode=related&search=

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKq6L9U3hTw&mode=related&search=

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUqMAk2tdTQ&mode=related&search=


Still think these are just theories? If you still don't, I;d like to ask this : Do you actually watch these documentaries, do some research, think about it and then say "I dont believe it" or are you one of those people that go "I dont believe any conspiracies and scandals because I only believe the official statements by the government" even before you checked it out? If you are the latter that says "Do I look like I care?", then it just shows that you are merely turning a blind eye so that you have 1 less thing to care about.
 
I've looked into a lot of these 'conspiracies' in depth.

And found no substance.

Mind you it keeps a lot of people entertained.

By the way, have any of you conspiracy theorists worked out yet that these conspiracy theories are actually planted by the powers-that-be to distract you from what is REALLY going on?

By making all of you focus your time on pursuing and discussing baseless rumours (with a little misinterpreted information to keep you on the hook) they not only mislead you from the real conspiracies, but also destroy your credibility within the general public, making you look like sensationalists with little trustability and even less common sense.

The net effect, therefore, is that by spreading these fake conspiracies you're doing the work of the other side for them, reducing the likelihood of the public to ever believe in the real conspiracies and destroying the credence of the few people who do find out what is really going on.

Think about it a little...Don't you find some of the evidence that appears to support certain conspiracies just a little too easy to get hands on....

Don't forget the story of the boy who cried wolf.

Cheers,

Aceyducey
 
Acey,
I appreciate your spepticism, but do you think those ex-CIA agents who spoke of their life experience are lying? About their work with the CIA, and all the dirty stuff they were ordered to do, and the news report of Reagan apologizing for saying there was no selling of firearms secretly in the Iran-Contra affairs. I mean the news report especially went thru court, and it revealed officially that scandalous selling of arms, injecting money to support the rebels, and Reagan had to apologize it happened, so that is not conspiracy? Not believable? Just "Conspiracy theories"?

Of course I do not think all conspiracy theories are true, but a lot of them do have consistent testimonials epecially the 9/11 firemen reporting what they saw onsite, and the experts saying the building had to be brought down by explosives as no steel and concrete building has ever been pulverised into such small pieces because of fire weakening the structure, or the top collapsed. The engineers, building demolition experts, scientists all say it is impossible, and that it must have been 'secondary devices'. Plus the official report was the Building 7 collapsed because fire weakened the structure, but the owner himself said firemen said to 'pull it' (detonate it). BUt we the public all we hear is the 'official statements' from the govt saying "fire weakened the structures". And the govt refused to investigate the possibility of seconday devices, eventhough experts tell them there must have been, and eyewitnesses say they saw individual lower floors blowing out before the building came down. So you don't even suspect a conspiracy, and just believe what they tell u in the official reports?

What about those eyewitnesses and experts? That is why they and the families affected by 9/11 are suing the US govt now.

And the govt is disregarding the testimonies from the firemen and eyewitness. Why?? WHy dont they probe further? Why try to disregard the possibility of finding out what really happened? Don;t they want to know the truth themself?
 
Im with Perkys mate.

This will happen one day. Who knows how long it will take, but its probably not that far away.

Terrorism and crime are always used to promote it as a good thing.

They already use this stuff in animals, and are still working on the technology. Any one see the Sydney cat that was lost, and they found it in Melb, because it was microchiped by the vet? Was on the news this year.

People are starting to embrace the idea (this forum proves that), and it doesnt really matter if people want it or not. It will happen.

It might be ok for a while, but it wont be good when the Antichrist is in town.

Fortunately I wont be around when he is :)

As for Sept 11. Its very interesting the conspiracy theories, and they do seem to have a lot backing them up. Its very hard to believe that anyone would kill that many people, just for their own agenda, but what would we know. While it does look like the govt may have done it, at the end of the day my opionion on Sept 11 counts for zilch, so I dont get to concerned about it, but its very interesting viewing.

Cheers
mono
 
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