My education revolution idea

@yman - care to elaborate? Are we talking steiner? Anyway i am taking for 18-30 year olds....and where you actually achive qualifications in many disciples. I am glad that you agree that the idea can work for certain peiople/communities in certain times

It's not Steiner - but it was started in response to what we felt was lacking in the current school system of that country.

The original concept started in Taiwan - a very developed and "westernised" corner of Asia.

As a society, Asians perhaps more than many others push their children for academic excellence - to what we may see here as "extreme" - i.e. they have school 6 days per week, and ideally private tuition every night and Sundays, along with music lessons etc.

It was noted (not sure by any research but perhaps empirically) that there seemed to be more cases of
  • "Social Disconnect" - often disliking the real world situtations and taking refuge in cyberspace. Unable to communicate face to face with people, let alone groups of people. The "head down" syndrome (everyone you see on the street is facing down to their electronic device - no one talks to each other. eg texting a person sitting next to you in preference to talking)
  • Lack of physical fitness - perhaps from the parents belief that exercising the brain is more important than exercising the body
  • Total lack of knowledge of same basic things we might take for granted (eg. what does a celery look like? what does a chicken look like before being turned into KFC? Did you know beef is made from cows)
  • Academic brilliance - which has lead to "academic inflation". You now can not get a job just graduating from Uni - Post grad is now mandatory, and often a PhD is required. This has lead to despondency and depression for those who can't make it to the top

The start of the "Eden" school (in reference to the Biblical Garden of Eden being the origins of life) was quite dramatic - with a very public show of parent barging into the schools their children were attending and "rescuing" them out of the system.

A very organised system of "home teaching" was developed to ensure that basic numeracy and literacy skills were developed (while we declare it as home teaching to the authorities, in practice we have class rooms and qualified teachers who also "left the system" because they felt something was wrong).

A (comparatively) huge portion of time was spent in getting the kids outdoors - doing "old fashioned" things like climbing trees and swimming (supervised!) in rivers and lakes.

When they get older, they go and work on building projects, farming, etc - learning in the field from older tradies. We used to call them the "slave labour force" and pitied them a bit - but now looking back and at the kids who have "graduated" - they seem very disciplined, very well adjusted young adults with an amazing array of skills and knowledge - not about nuclear physics mind you - but about how to construct a building, what tools and equipment are needed, what to plant where, how to harvest, how to slaughter prep poultry from bird to plate, how to catch, clean and cook fish...

How many kids can operate an excavator (let alone a Bobcat) before they can drive a car?

The kids don't stay in one place either - they get rotated out to our properties in various countries - Malaysia, USA, South Africa, Australia, UK - so they can take in the local conditions.

While it may sound like they are locked in a commune (the kids do complain about this sometimes), they do get to go out and run some of our shop fronts and market stalls (now that's putting communications skills and your maths to the test).

A "qualification" is not the aim - it's about gaining basic skills in sheltering, clothing and feeding yourself. Ironically, those skills can get you a job easier in a place like Taiwan than a PhD grad with no "real world" exposure.


The other interesting outcomes in Taiwan was in relation to their compulsory military service.

It has been noted on quite a few occasions that they find our students far more suited to life in the military - able to "rough it", hands on skills, physically fitter, and used to quite a disciplined lifestyle (in fact, many of the kids say military service is a bit of a "holiday" for them because they wake up later, do less physical work, do far less chores, and get rec leave!).



The Y-man
 
S0o many smart young people hate the idea of university agter 13 ardous years at high school. Many are so jaded and hate the choices of land stereotypical vocations ahead of them that they take 1 or 2 years off to have fun doing many of the things my degree actually teaches.....

No one pays you to do those things. You do it for fun. Employers pay you to do what they want, not what you want. If you hire someone for a job, you might consider travel experiences etc as a sign of a well rounded personality, but you're not going to hire someone BECAUSE they've taken a gap year.

In the US, everyone does a liberal arts degree first. Employers know that if they hire grads (who didn't then go to business school, etc) they need to train them from scratch because they have no specific skills. In a bad economy (such as now), liberal arts graduates find they have very little to offer employers.
 
I am deadly serious

whats the point being a speciallist when technology is changing / moving the goalposts so fast?

I don't want our haematologist to know about building houses. I want him to know absolutely everything there is to know about haematology AND to be able to differentiate between the facts and all the BS out there on the internet.

I'm considered an expert in the Power industry. I did five full time years of training in electrical engineering and commerce, followed by three years in a Masters in my spare time. I now have over fifteen years of comparatively senior experience in the industry, working in both public and private sectors.

98% of what I read on the internet and in the news about the power industry is complete BS, written by people who either don't have a clue or are just pushing their own side of the argument. I am yet to meet anyone who has been able to cut through all that BS and get to the real truth without similar levels of both education / training and diverse individual experience. Specialist skills are more valuable than they ever were... in all of the professions. Particularly the skill of differentiating fact from fiction.
 
@alexlee

So a degree in horticulture
A higher degree in building or plumbing
A higher degree in computers or social newtowrking

are all things people dont pay you for?

Im not talking about travelling...

then there is the elective over say 6 years - aged care, nursing, yad ayada yada - all employable!

You dont need to tell your employee that you have 8 degrees - if they want an it dude just show em your IT qual!


+++


@yman - love it..

@cjay - yes arts and probably 100 other degrees are completely useless (wlecome to modern education) - too specialised not enuf jobs....nothing new here

time to be a Renaissance man - get with the program

Again - i am not talking world domination - 63,000 students last year did a diploma of personal training. Give me 100 of those students....
 
@high equity

I feel the same way about my experience in shipping but you know what things change. Dont be prescious about what you know and what you think the world needs. Power is changing more rapidly than just about any other industry. You may find your skils become redundant quicker than you think....the good news is in your older age you can contibute by helping out as a Nurse for the elderly, grow your own veggies and if the water tank stuffs up replace the valve yourself!
 
@alexlee

So a degree in horticulture
A higher degree in building or plumbing
A higher degree in computers or social newtowrking

are all things people dont pay you for?

A degree SPECIALISING in those things, possibly. A degree in those things are pretty useless without years of practical experience. Accounting grads are pretty useless without training in a work environment. You're talking about a general couple of years first (fun, no doubt, but does nothing for employability), then, possibly, 'specialising' in multiple streams (only one of which an employer would pay for). The other issue is wasted time. You're talking about, what, 6-8 years ending up with (that's assuming those specialties can be fully taught at uni, which I disagree with) multiple specialties where the employer will only pay for one of them.

You end up age 25 with no specific work experience and only a part of that education will be valued by employers.

If you're looking to train people in secure jobs, I think it would be better to teach them to evolve with the job, not do different jobs.
 
A degree SPECIALISING in those things, sure. But you're talking about a general couple of years first, then, possibly, 'specialising' in multiple streams. The other issue is wasted time. You're talking about, what, 6-8 years ending up with (that's assuming those specialties can be fully taught at uni, which I disagree with) multiple specialties where the employer will only pay for one of them.

You end up age 25 with no specific work experience.

You may work in one for a while but the skills are so practicle that you benefit financial anyway.

Ways to save one or 2 million bucks easily over a standard middle class lifetime

1. Never buy a new car
2. Send your kids to a public school
3. Learn how to build your dream house yourself. If you save 30 pct on a 700k build thats 250k in your pocket now - spread that with interest over 30 years and you can see how much you save
4. Fix things yourself

Aussie
 
You may work in one for a while but the skills are so practicle that you benefit financial anyway.

Ways to save one or 2 million bucks easily over a standard middle class lifetime

1. Never buy a new car
2. Send your kids to a public school
3. Learn how to build your dream house yourself. If you save 30 pct on a 700k build thats 250k in your pocket now - spread that with interest over 30 years and you can see how much you save
4. Fix things yourself

Or instead learn to evolve with your job and learn to invest so that you have the money to be able to do all these things.

I don't doubt your way will be useful for a lot of people, but there are other ways.
 
BTW AR I don't dispute the value of a well rounded education for an individual - I personally value having skills in all of the categories you have listed. But I don't think that stuff should be delivered through the education system - it's up to the individual to pursue for their own personal development in their spare time after they have finished doing the real job, for which they were properly trained.

The ability for people to do just that with the generalist stuff is now better than ever... so there is even less need to formalise it.
 
See - this is exactly what I mean. What makes you think you know this?

Because im involved in mining and shipping and i see reports on trends going into the next 20-30 years. Billions of dollars of invesntment moving forward hinge in china and changinges in power technology. Why invest billions in mines and ships if coal and iron ore are on the way out? You wouldnt thats why hundreds of very smart people are cautious about where to put money atm. Also Look at the quickness of change in the solar power industry...its alll happening


I also am interested in environmentalism (hence the reason i have left many aspects of mining and shipping). I want my house to be full of enviro elements.

I also bought a house (once) next to an electrical substation and looked at much of the research in scandanavia regarding the risks. I actually spoke to the ombudsman and had many discussions with citypower regarding the future of power.
 
BTW AR I don't dispute the value of a well rounded education for an individual - I personally value having skills in all of the categories you have listed. But I don't think that stuff should be delivered through the education system - it's up to the individual to pursue for their own personal development in their spare time after they have finished doing the real job, for which they were properly trained.

The ability for people to do just that with the generalist stuff is now better than ever... so there is even less need to formalise it.

But see HiEq this is exactly the midset that needs changing. This is exactly the stuff that needs to be in the education system. I want my kids to learn a subject called "money' - not algebra! Sure we need some maths geeks but how many times do we hear people say I never use the stuff i learnt in school. Its out dated. There are hundreds of examples.
 
Kind of like a Bachelor of Arts in life.

But even more useless for getting a job!

Here I thought parents were meant to provide their children with 18 years of 'teaching' the things you mentioned?

because life is all about "getting a job" and becoming a tax-slave.
 
But see HiEq this is exactly the midset that needs changing. This is exactly the stuff that needs to be in the education system. I want my kids to learn a subject called "money' - not algebra! Sure we need some maths geeks but how many times do we hear people say I never use the stuff i learnt in school. Its out dated. There are hundreds of examples.

I think financial education should be a compulsory part of education - people need to know basic money management skills. However, I dispute that algebra is useless. With Mathematics, I think every single person in society should at least finish 2U maths. People should know how to calculate their super, solve for an unknown variable such as loan payments.
 
But see HiEq this is exactly the midset that needs changing. This is exactly the stuff that needs to be in the education system. I want my kids to learn a subject called "money' - not algebra! Sure we need some maths geeks but how many times do we hear people say I never use the stuff i learnt in school. Its out dated. There are hundreds of examples.

I completely disagree. Three dimensional differential calculus in spherical coordinates or Fast Fourier Transforms, or any number of other sophisticated concepts in Mathematics (to take your example) are extremely difficult to learn properly without someone teaching you. And knowing how they work is actually very important in the core design of a very large number of products and services we take for granted - from the wristwatch to the smoke detector. A lot of people won't use them in their job but a lot will and it's impossible to know which is which beforehand... so all graduates of the relevant discipline need to know.

Whereas gardening, computer skills, basic carpentry etc etc etc can all be learnt by anyone at anytime either off the internet or just by watching someone else. Horses for courses - keep the education system for the stuff that's actually hard to learn and do the rest in your own time.

But on the subject of money management and financial intelligence, I completely agree there should be units on this in high school. But finding teachers worthy of the name would likely be a problem. No point having your kids taught this subject by someone with a heap of credit card debt... doesn't mean we shouldn't try though! In the meantime, we just have to teach our own kids these skills...
 
I think financial education should be a compulsory part of education - people need to know basic money management skills. However, I dispute that algebra is useless. With Mathematics, I think every single person in society should at least finish 2U maths. People should know how to calculate their super, solve for an unknown variable such as loan payments.

Dont get me wrong - i love maths and i think maths can explain just about everything....i just reckon that 95 pct of the maths i use I knew by Year 8.
 
I completely disagree. Three dimensional differential calculus in spherical coordinates or Fast Fourier Transforms, or any number of other sophisticated concepts in Mathematics (to take your example) are extremely difficult to learn properly without someone teaching you. And knowing how they work is actually very important in the core design of a very large number of products and services we take for granted - from the wristwatch to the smoke detector. A lot of people won't use them in their job but a lot will and it's impossible to know which is which beforehand... so all graduates of the relevant discipline need to know.

Whereas gardening, computer skills, basic carpentry etc etc etc can all be learnt by anyone at anytime either off the internet or just by watching someone else. Horses for courses - keep the education system for the stuff that's actually hard to learn and do the rest in your own time.

But on the subject of money management and financial intelligence, I completely agree there should be units on this in high school. But finding teachers worthy of the name would likely be a problem. No point having your kids taught this subject by someone with a heap of credit card debt... doesn't mean we shouldn't try though! In the meantime, we just have to teach our own kids these skills...

You are playing into my hands...why does the average joe need to know about fast fourier transforms? leave that to the maths geeks at phd level.

Everyone needs to know about money and various other things to help you survive.
 
You are playing into my hands...why does the average joe need to know about fast fourier transforms? leave that to the maths geeks at phd level.

Everyone needs to know about money and various other things to help you survive.

This is first year uni stuff - not PhD level. I thought we were talking about university here? The average Joe doesn't need to go to university...
 
This is first year uni stuff - not PhD level. I thought we were talking about university here? The average Joe doesn't need to go to university...

Dude - the point is we do need maths geeks.....just not most people. Enought o be able to add, subtract, multiply and divide...anything more refer to calculator, iphone, nerd....(i like nerds)
 
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