My Sydney dilemma - advice sought!

I'm posting to this forum because I own 2 Sydney properties, two big mortgages, and have no head for figures. Everyone tells me I'm crazy to be in my present situation. So I'd love to hear the opinions of those in this forum - especially as practically anyone would be more financially astute than me!

Here's my situation.

I've have recently returned to Melbourne from Sydney where I was working for five years.

Point to note: I'm renting in Melbourne for $1,430 a month.

The two Sydney properties I own are both rented.

The first property, is a waterfront apartment.

Purchased in 1999 for $490,000, I owe $390,000 on it, with a fixed loan at 6.5% for 5 years. It brings in a gross rental income per annum of $21,325. Total expenses are $30,274, so there is currently an annual loss of $8,949. The apartment rents very well because of its position, but capital gain isn't brilliant: an apartment in the same building purchased in the same year as mine for $370,000 recently sold for $420,000. However, as I have minimal superannuation and it has performed shockingly, I've tended to view the apartment as my potential retirement income.

My second property is a former home - an inner city townhouse.

Purchased also 1999 for $575,000, I owe $495,000 on it, with a fixed loan at 6.85% for 5 years. It brings in a gorss rental income per annum of $27,435. Total expenses are $53,082, so there is a currently an annual loss of $25,647. The property would now be worth about $700,000+

I can service both loans, but generally can't afford to make additional repayments. I'd like to buy a home in Melbourne eventually, but am in no hurry.

QUESTION: Is my current situation working against me financially? Would I be better selling one or both of the Sydney properties and buying a Melbourne house, with a smaller mortgage, and paying that off? Or keep one Sydney property or both? I'm really confused what to do. Any advice will be gratefully received...especially as I don't possess a financial mind!

Mike L
 
Hi Mike,

What suburb is your waterfront apartment? and how many bedrooms is it?

Have you considered, if you don't already do so, to rent it out furnished, or as a serviced apartment? You'd get a higher rent for it, but in the current market, you'd probably be looking at a 40 week occupancy...

just an idea to boost the income.

Your expenses on the townhouse sound quite high compared to the rental return..do you have this managed by a competant property manager?
 
Hi Joanna,

The apartment is 1 bedroom plus study (i.e. another room that could be classed as a bedroom but is really small. So the place is always rented by singles.)

Yes, I know I could get more as an executive thing, but I really don't want that stress...especially now that I'm living in another city.

As for the expenses on the house, yes they are high, but it does require quite steady general maintenance. Gutters cleaned from leaf load, weeding, etc. etc.

Any thoughts?

Mike L
 
You will be carrying those losses for another 3-4 years at least. Sell now and you will be losing heaps in transfer costs. Wait a few years and you will wonder why the hell you were worried. In a time line, put yourself now at about 1995-96, and imagine the same losses. What would you do with hindsight? Keep them! You have made money already, and you bought pretty much at the top of the market. You will make heaps. Be patient.
 
Hi Mike,

I am still concerned about your expenses on property #2. They seem very high. "Leaves from gutters ?" - cut the tree down or have it trimmed back. Might be a short term cost but if you are regularly paying for maintenance on these sorts of things you need to be trying to look for ways to keep the costs down. "Weeding" - not sure about NSW but in QLD this is the responsibility of the tenant ?

I agree with the above comments on holding on if you can. Many of us dream of buying properties on the harbour (even with a view of the harbour would be nice) and long term you should be fine.

Just remember that even if you think your growth over the period isn't as high as you expect it is still probably better than any other asset class over the same period.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

Cheers
PIppety;)
 
Hi Mike,

Congratulations, you are doing extremely well.

A couple of suggestions that you may find useful.

1. If your properties were built after 1985 you should be able to claim non-cash deductions (capital works allowance division 43 and depreciable plant deductions division 42). Your nearly $9K loss on a $490K property looks too large to assume you are claiming these deductions. If you bought the unit new or nearly new you should be able to claim about $4K-5K/year under division 43 and $4-$7K annually under division 42 (depending on building equipment such as swimming pool, gym, lifts, air-conditioning etc). These deductions would make huge difference, for instance on the first property if currently your loss before tax is $8949 and after tax (assuming 48.5% tax rate) your loss is $5072. With non-cash deductions of conservative $9K your loss before tax would be $17949 and after tax your loss would be just $244.

2. Another suggestion is to consider refinancing the loans. Currently you can get a very good deal with the loan size and repayment history like yours. On the other side you have breaking cost for a fixed rate. Breaking cost is made of the difference between your interest for the remainder of the fixed period and what the interest would be with the current fixed rate for the remaining term. Plus a small fee. In your case, there are 2 years left on each of the loans. Assuming the current 2-year fixed rate at your lender is 6.5% your breaking cost is about $1500 for both. Refinancing at under 6% i.o. variable you can save about $4.5K per year, or $9K for the remaining 2 years. Refinancing will also mean new valuations for your properties and possibly setting up a facility that can be used for future property purchases on the spot (for cash).

Combining savings from these two suggestions you should be able to improve your after tax position by about $13K/year for both IPs. The unit will become cash-flow positive!

This is so exciting - I can't wait for you to confirm that my suggestions are right!

Say cheese

:p

Lotana
 
Thanks to everyone who is offering opinions - it's good to hear an opposite view ... as all I've heard up to now from my immediate circle and my accountant is: sell, sell, sell!

Lotana, unfortunately, both properties were built prior to 1985.

Mike L
 
Dale Gatherum-Goss is an accountant in Melbourne who frequents these boards, and has investment property of his own and imho is very knowledgeable.

Perhaps you could make an appointment to see him or post a message on the board for him?


Jenny
 
is loan interest on second property claimable?

Hi Mike,

Sorry if I'm off-base, but in your description, you mention that the 2nd property was a former home. I may be totally wrong, but my understanding is that if the purpose you took out the loan on that property was originally for PPOR, then *none* of the interest is claimable if/when you start renting it out.

Can any more knowledgable people enlighten me/us?

cheers

raoul
 
Hi Raoul,
You can claim interest on 2nd property if it was originally a PPOR.

Mike,
Do yourself a huge favour and see Dale GG. He'll set you straight.
 
Once you decide to turn your PPOR into an IP and you derive income from it,all costs are now in fact deductible(loan)if there is one.
But if you intend to purchase a new PPOR you now will have a greater nondeductible loan to pay off.


Darren
 
I stand corrected

Thanks for your replies.

My memory is worse than a crystal ball for accuracy...

I remember the details a little better now. (I had this discussion with someone years ago and the conclusion was it is not worth it for me at that time.)

From memory, if your loan is largely paid off, and you renegotiate to bump it up in order to pull money out to buy your next PPOR, then the difference is not claimable - only the minimum level you got the loan down to.

Is there any ATO sanctioned way of getting the capital out of your home to invest in your next home in order to convert your current home into an IP?

thanks in advance...

raoul
 
A recent thread re Trusts was good for info re this situation.Through a trust i believe it is possible.
Search for the thread i suggest.


Darren
 
Pippety said....
Just remember that even if you think your growth over the period isn't as high as you expect it is still probably better than any other asset class over the same period.


I agree that property has performed very well over the past few years, definitely better than shares over the last 2 yrs. However (and i realise you werent saying this Pippety) we are ill advised to write off other investment classes altogether. There are times when putting your money in shares, fixed interest etc etc will be the best thing to do.

Perhaps speaking to a financial planner (who understands and uses property investment) may help.

Just my 2cents worth.

TheBacon
 
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