Negotiation tip for buying off the plan

I am interested to buy off the plan the unit in Fairy Meadow area. It is 2bedrooms and 2 bathrooms unit. The price tag is 379000. 20 of 29 units have been sold since 2009. They starts to build it now and will finish it in 2012. However, when I checked on website, I found out that similar units were sold with the price tag of 359000.

Is it possible to negotitate and make an offer below 359000?

Thanks
Maureen
 
You can even make a lower offer.
It depends on how desperate they are to sell.

But why buy off the plan?
Are you trying to save the stamp duty?
Now that construction has started the savings will be less
 
You can even make a lower offer.
It depends on how desperate they are to sell.

But why buy off the plan?
Are you trying to save the stamp duty?
Now that construction has started the savings will be less

Thanks All

Yes we try to save the stamp duty and also to get reasonable price.
 
Depends if they are another MCKENZIE BOND offer. If so I doubt there would be much negotiation room due to they way they package their deals either being with rental guarantee or NRAS incentives.
 
The thread linked to by Propertunity is very good, but as a developer myself, I'll flesh some scenarios out a little bit based on my experience

First thing is to find out what the developers business model is, the nature of the land, and what they're trying to do overall. Then put yourself in their shoes and you'll quickly see what motivates them.

If the development land is new and either purchased outright or mortgaged, then the developer is bleeding interest, and is therefore more motivated to sell quickly. In such a case, they'll sacrifice some of their sales profit in order to get the project moving forward.

If the development land has an existing rented structure on it that is softening the cost of holding the land, then they have more breathing room and may delay the project until they get the price that they want.

If the developer is new, they are more likely to fall into the first category. If the developer is established, they are more likely to fall into the second.

If the developer is also the builder, then things get a bit tricky because they're making money from the development sales, and building itself, so understanding their motivation/capacity is even more important.

In regards to prices and number of units "sold", keep in mind a few of the tricky things developers do in order to make the project seem more viable than it actually is, such as:

1 Advertising that x number of units are already sold from day 1. Often, the developer will keep some units for themselves or otherwise deliberately withold some units from market in order to create the illusion that there is existing demand, and that a certain price has already been paid by others. Psychologically, people react to this by thinking that if otehr people have already bought, then the product must be good, and they should get in on it quickly.

2 Cutting deals with their contractors. Another tactic used by developers is simply to say to their contractors "You want the job? Buy a unit at x price. We can then deduct some or all of the value of works that you do from that price, and you will pay stamp duty on the total inflated price, but you'll get the job and make money anyway".

3 Including rebates to select buyers in their contract of sale, but not yours. This is where the developer will approach people that they know, or family, or contractors (whoever, doesn't matter) and sell them a unit for a much higher price than it is actually worth, that the buyer pays stamp duty on, but in the contract, it'll say something like "$50 000 to be refunded on settlement", thereby skewing the actual value of the property to the naive or ignorant potential purchaser.

4 Basing prices on nearby sales that have used the above tactics, thereby compounding the misrepresentation of actual value.

I'm very active myself, and would go so far as to get a set of the developers plans/schedule of finishes as well as the title document (for $15 from the lands and titles office), price the job up myself, and get a handle on what the developers actual costs and profit are, and negotiate from there. Yeah it's a bit snoopy, but so what.

In general, you should get at least a 10% discount OTP when compared to the price of a finished apartment.

Personally my block of land virtually maintains itself, so I can sit on it forever eating cocopops until I get the price that I want. At the same time, I'm a reasonable guy and rather than sit on the land in order to make an extra 10% profit, I'd rather lower my prices, get the thing done, and move on to the next one where the profit is 10x more than the extra 10% I could have chased were I to be greedy/unrealistic.

I say make an offer that fits with your expectations, and if they don't take it, walk away. There are always other buildings. Financial athiesm and no emotion all the way.

cheerios
 
All good inside info there from Ocean :)

Also some developers have been known to sell themselves (actually one of their associated companies), a few units at inflated prices also, to establish a comparable sales base ;)
 
Sneaky buggers aren't they ;)

Ooooo forgot to mention, take a good look at the body corporate aspect. Some developers will nominate a very small body corporate fee with intent only to maintain that for the first year or so (when everything is new, under warranty, elevator costs are zero as part of the install) and then after the first year, the body corporate fee goes from something small to something horrible. The big warning sign here is where the developer will manage the body corporate themselves, or if the body corp is unrealistically low.

I'm personally managing my own body corporate, but starting a body corp company to do that at reasonable rates (do you guys have any idea how much easy money body corp managers make on new buildings? ridonkulous!)
 
Sneaky buggers aren't they ;)

Ooooo forgot to mention, take a good look at the body corporate aspect. Some developers will nominate a very small body corporate fee with intent only to maintain that for the first year or so (when everything is new, under warranty, elevator costs are zero as part of the install) and then after the first year, the body corporate fee goes from something small to something horrible. The big warning sign here is where the developer will manage the body corporate themselves, or if the body corp is unrealistically low.

I'm personally managing my own body corporate, but starting a body corp company to do that at reasonable rates (do you guys have any idea how much easy money body corp managers make on new buildings? ridonkulous!)

True ocean, in some body corporates here charge a bomb even for new buildings. Unless they're like the freshwater place which has the infinity pool on one of the top floors - where you can actually swim and see the yarra river and flinders st station, it ain't much.

in melbourne, the biggest apartment developer is central equity and they manage most of their 40+ apartment buildings themselves with an entity known as MICM (melbourne inner city manager). But they actually do a good job keeping the costs of the owners corp (body corporate) down and in fact are the cheapest and quite efficient- i know for a fact they have an inhouse building manager who manages the U block (6 apartment buildings) in south melbourne (24/7) as well as having individual managers for each building. I suppose scalability makes them cost effective.
 
True ocean, in some body corporates here charge a bomb even for new buildings. Unless they're like the freshwater place which has the infinity pool on one of the top floors - where you can actually swim and see the yarra river and flinders st station, it ain't much.

in melbourne, the biggest apartment developer is central equity and they manage most of their 40+ apartment buildings themselves with an entity known as MICM (melbourne inner city manager). But they actually do a good job keeping the costs of the owners corp (body corporate) down and in fact are the cheapest and quite efficient- i know for a fact they have an inhouse building manager who manages the U block (6 apartment buildings) in south melbourne (24/7) as well as having individual managers for each building. I suppose scalability makes them cost effective.

Body corp is a scam, they're making out like bandits. I was quoted 50 000 - 60 000 total for the first year alone for a brand new 12 unit complex (I think I've said this before, but to hell with it, I'm saying it again :D) and when I priced it out, first year costs were something like 15 000. What a joke. Then I got the inside skinny on what was going on, and in short, I smell some price collusion going on. I mean seriously, even with putting money aside for major upgrades etc, how do you justify profits like that for organising cleaners/gardeners/insurance? Even when the elevator becomes painful and you're paying 5000 a year, theres still 30 000 in the pot per year - let's say you take 10 000 for yourself (not a bad little job) and put 20 000pa away with compound interest, in a decade you've got 300k sitting there - what are they saying, that they're going to rebuild the thing? Supply a baggie of coke to every apartment on Sundays? Buy everyone a new car on the buildings 10 year anniversary?

Bunch of scam artists.

(If you can't beat em, join em, I want to start a body corp company. Seriously.)
 
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