No Stamp Duty Transfers Now Possible

[coastymike]

For those dealing with an adviser who has been keep up to date the Queensland OSR has finally confirmed that property may be moved in Queensland without incurring a liability to stamp duty. The case in point was where a trust had two Queensland properties and the client wanted to move one to another trust to get multiple land tax thresholds. This can also be achieved where a trust owns a NSW property and a QLD property and it is desirable to convert the trust to a Land Tax Unit Trust.

If done correctly it is now possible to move property in NSW and QLD without stamp duty to achieve multiple land tax thresholds and for the obvious SMSF reasons. Both the NSW Office of State Revenue and now Queensland Office of State Revenue have confirmed these arrangements are effective and it is possible to obtain this advice from the OSR from the relevant professionals who have been involved with this.

Please discuss with your tax adviser before proceeding as it must be done properly !!! otherwise duty is payable.

 

[pinkboy]

Any link to find out more info?

pinkboy

 

[coastymike]

Pinkboy

Unfortunately not. It has involved lots of time and effort and the advisers have all signed Non Disclosure Agreements.

Clients who are serious and have an adviser who understands the arrangement and have access to the rulings that the lawyers have obtained from the OSR can discuss it.

Sounds like cloak and dagger I know but months and months of legal advice and submissions have been made and to be fair to the lawyers they dont want people coming along and stealing the IP for free.

 

[Ed Barton]

How long till the government stamp it out (pun intended)?

 

[coastymike]

Ed

Probably got 6 -12 months before they close it. If you want to transfer property now is the time to be considering it. Not in 12 months time.

 

[RPI]

Great heads up Mike

Thank you kindly

D

 

[Terry_w]

Trust splitting? ATO has also said it can be done without triggering a CGT event. Trust terms must be identical, but could possibly be amended later.

 

[coastymike]

Terry

Sorry have signed a non disclosure agreement. Give me a call and once you sign the nda all can be revealed

 

[MIW]

For those dealing with an adviser who has been keep up to date the Queensland OSR has finally confirmed that property may be moved in Queensland without incurring a liability to stamp duty.
Please discuss with your tax adviser before proceeding as it must be done properly !!! otherwise duty is payable.

Coastymike, REALLY?
You are great, as I currently own 2 QLD SMSF properties in one trust and for the last 2 years have been paying Land Tax now. This would be of benefit for me, honestly.
Since my accountant is from QLD I will be pursuing it further with him. Thank you for sharing this information.....

 

[coastymike]

Miw

No problems. And if the adviser says it cant be done the lawyers have confirmation from the osr themselves that it is possible and legal and doable. In fact the osr in queensland has issued said document transfer with zero duty as proof. This is not some scheme with hidden documents and the like. It is real.

 

[MIW]

Miw

No problems. And if the adviser says it cant be done the lawyers have confirmation from the osr themselves that it is possible and legal and doable. In fact the osr in queensland has issued said document transfer with zero duty as proof. This is not some scheme with hidden documents and the like. It is real.

I will see him on the 13th so I will discuss this for sure. Thank you.

 

[wylie]

Miw

No problems. And if the adviser says it cant be done the lawyers have confirmation from the osr themselves that it is possible and legal and doable. In fact the osr in queensland has issued said document transfer with zero duty as proof. This is not some scheme with hidden documents and the like. It is real.

You mentioned this "loophole" may be closed within twelve months. Is it likely that any closing will also entail retrospective charging of stamp duties that were avoided?

 

[coastymike]

Wylie

Can you give me an example of where this has occurred with respect to changes in tax laws.

 

[Ed Barton]

Wylie

Can you give me an example of where this has occurred with respect to changes in tax laws.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/bus...lions-for-budget/story-e6frg8zx-1226206381640

It's very rare, but it does happen.

 

[wylie]

Wylie

Can you give me an example of where this has occurred with respect to changes in tax laws.

I have no idea at all, was just asking a question. Sorry if I offended. I thought you would be able to answer the question for me.

I sent this thread to my brother to see whether our situation would benefit from being able to transfer and his comment to me was along the lines of "I wonder if they would close the loophole and make anybody who got through that loophole pay up?"

I was curious as to whether it is possible that this would happen.

 

[coastymike]

Ed

Do you actually know what this article was referring to or just did a Google search ? Because it relates to transfer pricing rules and the changes have not been made retrospective at all.

It was a proposal to be made retrospective which has not gone ahead.

 

[MIW]

Yes, I think anything is possible but when it comes to rules and laws it would be very unusual to make it retrospective. Plus remember we do have an election later in this year.....

 

[wylie]

Would this "loophole" be valuable to us in order to transfer two houses from hubby's name into either one or two trusts.

I've thought of doing this before, but it entails paying capital gains tax and land tax. Unless the government wipes out capital gains tax some time in the future, then paying this doesn't really bother me, because the transfer figure then establishes a new cost base and I won't pay CGT twice.

But I would like to not have to pay stamp duty a second time just to change the name on the title.

The cost of two trusts for two houses may be overkill. Is there a threshold for land tax with any trusts? I'm thinking the trust that my parents moved houses to has NO threshold, so maybe one trust is all we would need and put two houses into one trust. If there IS a threshold, then two trusts might be better (more cost to administer though).

The land content of each of these particular houses is $500K and $530K and is only going to increase.

I'd be keen to hear what you think Coastymike?

 

[Dean2012ad]

Apparently the transfer can be done without stamp duty, but just like Inception it is possible but very difficult.....

 

[Mry]

I assume that these transfers are not capital gains tax free thanks to the ATO revoking the exception for Trust Cloning back in 2009. Stamp duty free, not capital gains free.

I believe similar terms from the old trust cloning provisions applies in these instances? Under cloning, as long as trusts have similar positions (ie trustee, beneficiaries) and deed terms,the argument is that the property is not legally changing hands. QLD OSR recognises trusts as being different for land tax threshold purposes ($350k threshold) as long as the trusts have different names although last I checked a few years ago, that policy was not in writing anywhere.

The ATO explained that trust cloning was not the original intent of the CGT exemption provisions so I would also assume this would be closed soon as well to prevent land tax revenue losses.