Offer deadline on Qld contract
- Thread starter brrmm
- Start date
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
No verbals on contracts for the purchase/sale of real property in any state.
Sorry, I can't help with the wording, other Qld-based will assist I'm sure.
your not really going to put deadline 15/09/10 are you??? if you do this then they basically have another month to find a better offer,
I normally allow them a day or sometimes 2 days to think about it and that's it.
I would put something like this, This offer will be terminated at 4pm Thursday 19/08/2010 if the vendor has not signed this contract before this time
Hains Solicitors website has precisely the clause you're looking for, specifically written for Queensland. 
Specifically, under limited offer, they recommend inserting the following special condition:
Specifically, under limited offer, they recommend inserting the following special condition:
Hains Solicitors website has precisely the clause you're looking for, specifically written for Queensland.
Specifically, under limited offer, they recommend inserting the following special condition:
I've made 2 offers in Brisbane and used this clause with a slight difference. I use noon the next day as a deadline.
I hate dealing with stuff at the end of a business day.
Brrmm. May I ask why you want to put a time limit on your offer? I have found that negotiations have a subtly about them. To be successful, you need to know the other party well, to know whether "caress or blunt" will work best. I have had so many sellers react unfavourably to time limits, particularly if the offer is under asking, or prior to say auction. Remember, most people respond best, when they feel they are in a win/win situation. If I can help more, always happy to, PM if you like. Wylie, thank you for the kind words.
You can always put a time frame and if they knock it back then take a second bite, I do it both ways depending on the information I have.
If you leave it open then they may just hold that contract while they find another buyer and if they can't then they come back to you
Why would you ever take the risk of giving somebody an open-ended offer? What if they say nothing, a few weeks later you buy another house, then they realise there aren't better offers around, sign it, and send it to your lawyer for conveyancing? What grounds would you have for getting out of a purchase that you now don't want?
Exactly! Terrifying!
There are times when it can work though. Friends of mine have offered 5% below asking price. Vendors have said they are looking for asking price and have not signed the contract. Friends have not asked for the contract back, nor increased their offer, and told the agent that their offer still stands.
They know that any minute, they could get a call from the agent saying that it has now been signed. They would be very happy.
Today I spoke to them and suggested they put in writing that the offer is no longer valid, and ask for confirmation that it has been destroyed (and possibly pick it up themselves). I think that this might prompt the agent to push the vendor for a lowering of price. (Six weeks, one offer, perhaps they are aiming too high, and comparables don't support the high asking price.)
They know that for the past two weeks the agent could have been using their contract as part of her sales strategy.... "I already have one offer" and try to get a higher one...... but now they have listed their own house, they want to be free to put offers in on something else.
The husband says that if the agent comes back with "they would like to negotiate" he will be lowering his initial offer. He is so annoyed with the agent's total lack of contact and childish ignoring tactics.
This agent has totally ignored them because the day they put the offer in writing, she tried for two hours to get them to list with her. She even said the vendors wanted them to list their house with her. They couldn't get her out of the house.
They advised that they would be listing their own house with another agency. Does this agent not realise that she has totally alienated any future dealings with my friends?
They will deal with her if the vendors lower their price, but no way would they deal with her in any other capacity. She has shot herself in the foot and they are disgusted.
They know that any minute, they could get a call from the agent saying that it has now been signed. They would be very happy.
Today I spoke to them and suggested they put in writing that the offer is no longer valid, and ask for confirmation that it has been destroyed (and possibly pick it up themselves). I think that this might prompt the agent to push the vendor for a lowering of price. (Six weeks, one offer, perhaps they are aiming too high, and comparables don't support the high asking price.)
They know that for the past two weeks the agent could have been using their contract as part of her sales strategy.... "I already have one offer" and try to get a higher one...... but now they have listed their own house, they want to be free to put offers in on something else.
The husband says that if the agent comes back with "they would like to negotiate" he will be lowering his initial offer. He is so annoyed with the agent's total lack of contact and childish ignoring tactics.
This agent has totally ignored them because the day they put the offer in writing, she tried for two hours to get them to list with her. She even said the vendors wanted them to list their house with her. They couldn't get her out of the house.
They advised that they would be listing their own house with another agency. Does this agent not realise that she has totally alienated any future dealings with my friends?
They will deal with her if the vendors lower their price, but no way would they deal with her in any other capacity. She has shot herself in the foot and they are disgusted.
How extraordinary. This is the second time I've come across an agent who has suggested not putting a time limit on an offer. The first one was an agent in Victoria who did not want a single date appearing anywhere on our offer, let alone a time.
If the contract does not contain a time limit then it is just plain dangerous and I doubt that Peter meant no time limit at all. However, if the time limit is too far away, like 3 days out, then the agent just uses that as a bargaining chip for other offers.
Wow, how easy it is to read different things into what people offer. At no stage did I say leave the offer open .... indefinately.... generally, during discussions, you will establish how long it may take, depending on the physical location of the seller, for the offer to be presented, and then when it would be likely that the agent would have an answer for you. Now, I dont know too many sellers, who with an offer in front of them, wont ask the agent ..."of the people that have inspected, is there any one that may pay more". The only way an agent can honestly answer that question, is speak with every one that had inspected, and or shown a level of interest in the property. Thay they will, or at least should do, irespective on how much of a "time limit" is put on the offer. Most self respecting agents, will or at least should be speaking with the buyers on a regular basis, and that may be a number of times a day, keeping them appraised on the seller attitude to the offer. If what you hear is not to your liking, at any time, you have the right to with draw or alter you offer. AsI said, how you approach the negotiations, will depend on so many factors. The ages of the sellers, be they investors, or owner occupiers, how long the property has been for sale, the % of your offer to asking, and a host of other things. I do not believe adopting a "singular" mind set will work on each occassion. However, like all things, mine is just one point of view.
Hi Peter..... Could you please clarify for me (for passing on to my friends) that an email (with a read receipt) stating that their offer is no longer valid is enough.
Is the read receipt enough, or should the insist on a reply that the contract has been ripped up. Do they need to physically get it back, just in case?
Do they need to follow up with a letter.
(All this is assuming a phone call is no good, as there is no paper record...)
Is the read receipt enough, or should the insist on a reply that the contract has been ripped up. Do they need to physically get it back, just in case?
Do they need to follow up with a letter.
(All this is assuming a phone call is no good, as there is no paper record...)
It sounds to me like you're suggesting the offer not have a time limit.
If you just meant that it shouldn't be ridiculously short (ie < 12 hours), then I might agree, but unless you put a clause in with some time limit - even if it's a few days - isn't the default position that it's an indefinite offer?I'm glad that this is how you work, but unfortunately, several times now we've heard of people who've found themselves in a situation where an agent/vendor has tried to bind them to a purchase regarding an offer that had earlier been verbally rejected. We don't know which agents are ethical, like yourself, and which ones we need to protect ourselves from.Peterw said:
If the offer was unconditional then I would be wanting that contract back and rip it up my self, if it was subject to ??? then this would depend on what it is subject to and if you have a exit plan if the agent vendor/solicitor tries to inforce the deal at a later stage, say if you were subject to getting your own satisfactry finance then I wouldn't care to much about the contract because if they come back and you don't want the house then you just say your not satisfied with the finance deals out there so there for your not committed, obviously it has to be worded right
My friends' offer was not "unconditional" so there are no problems really if they get a call telling them that the vendor has changed his mind and has signed the contract.
They would be very happy if it is signed at their offer price, but I am curious as to whether an email to the agent with a "read" receipt is enough for them to know that it cannot be signed from the time the email was received by the agent.
They would be very happy if it is signed at their offer price, but I am curious as to whether an email to the agent with a "read" receipt is enough for them to know that it cannot be signed from the time the email was received by the agent.
Wylie,
An email with or without a read receipt will suffice...as long as you can prove that you communicated the withdrawal of the offer, you will be fine. Google "Postal Rule" and "Telex" there should be some good explanations that will clarify.
Boods
I am not a lawyer (not that I like to brag - boom boom), but I disagree. My understanding is that the postal rule applies to acceptance of an offer, but revocation of an offer requires direct communication. See Byrne & Co v Leon van Tienhoven & Co, specifically:
I can't find exactly what constitutes such direct communication in the case of a real estate agent, but in the course of a real estate contract, the other party is really the vendor or their solicitor; I wouldn't think it necessarily included the real estate agent (though I may be mistaken).
If I were revoking an offer, I'd want to fax revocation to either the vendor or the vendor's solicitor, and receive confirmation of receipt of such revocation. I would also get immediately in contact with my solicitor to ensure that they don't receive any communication of acceptance before I've confirmed that the revocation has been received.
You needn't fear the "postal rule" being used with regard to acceptance in Queensland; legislation specifically states that acceptance doesn't take place until the signed contract is received by the buyer or their agent (ie not when posted).
Phew, this has generated quite a discussion ....which is good. As some one else mentioned, the legislation varies from state to state. I am only familiar with Qld. Looking firstly at common law, a contract only becomes a contract, when acceptance has been communicated. In earlier years, if an agent rang a buyer, with a seller signed contract in his hand, andafter hello, the buyer said "I withdraw my offer", before the agent said "congrats", the sale was dead. Yes I hear you, its one word against another, and yes not all parties act honourably. Under Qld Law, we now have new "binding" steps. As has been mentioned, the only real concern, is where an unconditional contract is offerred to a seller. I am afirm believer, if its not in writing, it will not stand up, so look at alternatives. We have fax, email, and hand delivered, with photo evidence, and if really concerned, have a witness. Who can you give the notice to?, the agent, the sellers solicitor, and you can also give dated advice to your solicitor, that you have withdrawn an offer made, and no communication of acceptance of the offer has been received. On a final note, I dont know to many people that will start legal proceedings, on a "bullying" position. That can be very expensive......next !
