Opinions on my situation

[geoffw]

I have looked at this legislation a few times since it has been brought to my attention on this thread. My interpretation of it is that if I give notification as specified in Section 10 of the Workplace surveillance Act, then even if the employee objects, I can legally proceed to activate my security cameras within 14 days. Is this your interpretation?

The summary in the first link, which is not the legislation, says that employee approval is required. However that doesn't appear to be a part of the legislation itself. So I was wrong.

However if you are trying to force it on your employees without consultation or agreement you are going to get them really well offside. Whatever your rights, you really want your employees to be on your side- otherwise your business can be hurt badly.

 

[willair]

I have looked at this legislation a few times since it has been brought to my attention on this thread. My interpretation of it is that if I give notification as specified in Section 10 of the Workplace surveillance Act, then even if the employee objects, I can legally proceed to activate my security cameras within 14 days. Is this your interpretation?

There are a few areas you can look at in NSW,one is the legal costs prior a SC-QC in NSW per-day is around 7000-8000$ ,Senior Barrister maybe 4000-5000$ per day,Junior Barrister 3000$ per day and one can read between the lines in this post and the reasoning behind the way some people react with minimal theorizing,good luck..imho..

 

[china]

The summary in the first link, which is not the legislation, says that employee approval is required. However that doesn't appear to be a part of the legislation itself. So I was wrong.

However if you are trying to force it on your employees without consultation or agreement you are going to get them really well offside. Whatever your rights, you really want your employees to be on your side- otherwise your business can be hurt badly.

Thats very true. So what would be the approach if I really want security camera and the employee does not? Assuming that my lawyers give me the ok to actually turn on the cameras after I have given the employee the required 14 day notice. At the moment, the two cameras are just two pieces of plastic sitting in the ceiling.

As you can gather, management of employees is something I do very badly and the most stressful and onerous part of my entire existence. I think that once I have reached my financial goal and retire from my current work, I will need to go back on to some form of salaried position for myself.

 

[geoffw]

It sounds as if you have lost some trust already which may be hard to get back.

My suggestion fwiw would be to try to consult them- initially just ask them if there's anything which would make the new premises better for them of for patients. Just sit down with them individually over a cup of coffee for 5 or 10 minutes. If they want to talk cameras, give them the opportunity- but possibly more in the terms "is there anything else concerning them?". Listen to them- properly.

If you make this a regular occurrence it won't seem as unusual and will help to bring about rapport.

By consulting with them, acting on things they tell you where appropriate, you may be able to break down the you vs them mentality. If you can honestly assure them that the cameras aren't there to monitor them it may possibly alleviate their concerns.

They may well have some very good ideas which could be of benefit to all of you.

 

[kathryn d]

China,
This is your business. Full stop.
If your employees don't like the cameras, they can quit.
I'm sure there are lots of other people willing to start a new job.

Put up signs stating the premises is under surveillance.
If the employees have nothing to hide, they shouldn't be concerned.

Most stores have cameras pointed at cash registers, as employee theft is very common.

 

[china]

China,
This is your business. Full stop.
If your employees don't like the cameras, they can quit.
I'm sure there are lots of other people willing to start a new job.

Put up signs stating the premises is under surveillance.
If the employees have nothing to hide, they shouldn't be concerned.

Most stores have cameras pointed at cash registers, as employee theft is very common.

Hi Kathryn,

The problem is that the business requires employees to run. And good staff are hard to find. As a small business with two part time employees, I dont have the luxury of regularly retraining staff.

In many ways, I am held hostage by the employees.

I think as an employer, you almost have to turn a blind eye to minor employee theft, - personal phone calls, streaming/watching videos at work, taking home office supplies for personal use, etc.

I have to balance this against the costs of finding new staff who could be a lot worse.

Hence if staff are not happy with cameras, the best way is for me to find some sort of compromise.

 

[geoffw]

China,
This is your business. Full stop.
If your employees don't like the cameras, they can quit.
I'm sure there are lots of other people willing to start a new job.

Put up signs stating the premises is under surveillance.
If the employees have nothing to hide, they shouldn't be concerned.

Most stores have cameras pointed at cash registers, as employee theft is very common.

Oh wow. That heavy handed, treat everybody like scum, might work for tenants in Canada- but it won't work in a business. M

An employe relies on employees to do their job properly. An employee who is treated with respect, as one human being to another, is far more likely to do the right thing by the employer than somebody who is treated like a disposable commodity.

Unlike tenants, employees are there for hours and days on end. An employee with a grudge can do a lot of subtle things to undermine the business without the boss knowing. An appointment might get lost. Filing goes into the wrong slot. Or there may be a call to the OHS people. Or perhaps they just have a sick day at short notice on a critical day. A satisfied employee though will go the extra mile to help and to ensure that things go smoothly. You won't need those cameras for a satisfied employee- they are only there to keep an eye on members of the public after all.

Perhaps Canadian tenants aren't really people. But Australian employees are.

 

[china]

It sounds as if you have lost some trust already which may be hard to get back.

My suggestion fwiw would be to try to consult them- initially just ask them if there's anything which would make the new premises better for them of for patients. Just sit down with them individually over a cup of coffee for 5 or 10 minutes. If they want to talk cameras, give them the opportunity- but possibly more in the terms "is there anything else concerning them?". Listen to them- properly.

If you make this a regular occurrence it won't seem as unusual and will help to bring about rapport.

By consulting with them, acting on things they tell you where appropriate, you may be able to break down the you vs them mentality. If you can honestly assure them that the cameras aren't there to monitor them it may possibly alleviate their concerns.

They may well have some very good ideas which could be of benefit to all of you.

It is difficult to have discussions now that the cameras are already installed but not yet functional. If I had my time again, I would have discussed this issue with them prior to installation.

However, this is the first time I have owned and built premises and like many things, this is a learning experience for me.

 

[wylie]

HThe problem is that the business requires employees to run. And good staff are hard to find. As a small business with two part time employees, I dont have the luxury of regularly retraining staff.

In many ways, I am held hostage by the employees.

I think as an employer, you almost have to turn a blind eye to minor employee theft, - personal phone calls, streaming/watching videos at work, taking home office supplies for personal use, etc.

I have to balance this against the costs of finding new staff who could be a lot worse.

Hence if staff are not happy with cameras, the best way is for me to find some sort of compromise.

This doesn't sound right to me. I have a friend who moved to Sydney while her daughter settled into a specialty school. She had no trouble at all finding casual, short term and/or longer term work in the hospital field, at hospitals and for surgeons. She was in demand, knew the systems they used after having worked for a while here as a medical practice receptionist.

I think you would have no trouble finding good staff, and to think you need to "expect" your staff to steal, watch videos etc is crazy talk.

Put them on a three month probation, and don't make them permanent unless you are happy with them. There are people looking for jobs who would need minimal training. You don't have to accept second best.

 

[geoffw]

This doesn't sound right to me. I have a friend who moved to Sydney while her daughter settled into a specialty school. She had no trouble at all finding casual, short term and/or longer term work in the hospital field, at hospitals and for surgeons. She was in demand, knew the systems they used after having worked for a while here as a medical practice receptionist.

I think you would have no trouble finding good staff, and to think you need to "expect" your staff to steal, watch videos etc is crazy talk.

Put them on a three month probation, and don't make them permanent unless you are happy with them. There are people looking for jobs who would need minimal training. You don't have to accept second best.

There may be a lot of good people out there. But it's far better, and far cheaper to your business, to keep a good person, than to find a new person of unknown quality.

Having said that- if you have bad employees, you do need to try to move them on where possible. China has said previously he's had trouble doing this. But treating employees well can sometimes turn a bad employee into a good one. China's employee didn't sound that bad in the scale of things. Respect can help.

 

[Ideo]

China,
This is your business. Full stop.
If your employees don't like the cameras, they can quit.
I'm sure there are lots of other people willing to start a new job.

Put up signs stating the premises is under surveillance.
If the employees have nothing to hide, they shouldn't be concerned.

Most stores have cameras pointed at cash registers, as employee theft is very common.

The relevant legislation has been posted.

Your opinion is at odds with the legislation.

That is the worst possible advice on this thread.

China, listen to Geoff. It's good advice.

 

[Kinnon Bell]

However, this is the first time I have owned and built premises and like many things, this is a learning experience for me.

With all due respect China, you've been given some great advice in this thread. You've then acted against it and come back complaining when things go pear shaped saying it's due to inexperience.

You have very experienced people imparting their knowledge which you seem to be ignoring and I'm just not referring to the video camera situation. Maybe it's time to start taking the advice on board before the proverbial really hits the fan

 

[kathryn d]

China,
You are only held hostage by your staff, if you allow it.
From the sounds of it, they are booking appointments etc.
Start training a third person, and start cutting back hours to anyone who complains about cameras. You can say it's for vacation or sickness cover.

There are cameras everywhere. Yes Geoff, even in Australia, cameras are watching the employees. I didn't say anyone had to be rude to staff.
It's about time, employers start standing up straight and acting as such.

I'm amazed at the type of attitudes displayed on SS.

 

[geoffw]

China,
You are only held hostage by your staff, if you allow it.
From the sounds of it, they are booking appointments etc.
Start training a third person, and start cutting back hours to anyone who complains about cameras. You can say it's for vacation or sickness cover.

There are cameras everywhere. Yes Geoff, even in Australia, cameras are watching the employees. I didn't say anyone had to be rude to staff.
It's about time, employers start standing up straight and acting as such.

We have a couple of issues here.

One is having cameras. I am not against this at all. I had them in both my shops. They were extremely useful when we got held up- twice by the same guy, holding a knife up to one of my employees. He got a little bit of cash and about eight years in jail. The cameras helped put him there.

The other is respect and treating people as worth while people. This is more than just being polite to them. But if they are treated as disposable commodities they will pay back in kind. People go to work for more than just pay. They wan to feel valued. If you are going to put cameras in, discuss it with them. Let them know that they are not there to spy on them- they are there to protect them. As happened when I got held up. It's not completely too late for that. If they feel, or if you ever show, that they are no trusted, they will treat you an your business in the same way.

I do have some practical knowledge on this. I ran two successful and very busy businesses for some years, with up to 40 employers. While my staffing turnover was not low, it was half the turnover in the industry. I feel I hav something to contribute as a result.

I'm amazed at the type of attitudes displayed on SS.

So am I. Especially from people who, afaik, don't have the experience and track record.

I also treat my tenants with respect. And they do the same. I've had a place on the market- and for two months there's been open houses every weekend. They've kept the places (two cottages) in immaculate condition- knowing that they could well not have their lease renewed as a result of their helpfulness.

 

[kathryn d]

Geoff,
People keep trying to insist China needs a employee's permission to set up cameras.
If that's the case, let them show the legislation that proves this..and I will shut up.

You are insinuating we do not treat our tenants with respect.We bend over backwards to make our tenants comfortable. As soon as they knowingly break their lease, and try to weasel out of their obligations, then we stop.
We are running a business. For the most part, we dont have any issues with our tenants.Because we have a higher number of them, than many here, we usually have one or two on the 'scum' list, at any given time.

We have discussed putting cameras in the common areas our apt buildings.To watch tenants, their guests, and our employees.
Asking their permission, would not even be considered.

The roadhouse here has cameras all over the place.Pointed in every direction.
So what...

As far as discussing it with employees, so they 'feel worthwhile'...just state your insurance company requires it to mitigate losses.

 

[Ideo]

Do you have any employees?

 

[kathryn d]

Do you have any employees?

yes we do, as previously stated

 

[geoffw]

I am suggesting that it be discussed with the employees. They've already shown that they are uncomfortable with the idea. If it's forced on them without discussion then they will be very unhappy and can prove to be a liability to the business.

I'm not surprised at all that you would put cameras in without consulting anybody. As has been pointed out before, your business is in canada where many laws are different. There are a number of times where you have suggested actions to people in here without putting a caveat that you are basing your advice on experience in another country with different laws. While many here know your background, somebody may not, and advice given may be quite dangerous if followed here.

 

[kathryn d]

I am suggesting that it be discussed with the employees. They've already shown that they are uncomfortable with the idea. If it's forced on them without discussion then they will be very unhappy and can prove to be a liability to the business.

I'm not surprised at all that you would put cameras in without consulting anybody. As has been pointed out before, your business is in canada where many laws are different. There are a number of times where you have suggested actions to people in here without putting a caveat that you are basing your advice on experience in another country with different laws. While many here know your background, somebody may not, and advice given may be quite dangerous if followed here.

Any advice given on SS should always be taken with a grain of salt...regardless of where people think they are from.

Many things I don't always know about. Rob is Australian.
We discuss many threads/posts as part of our discussion.
He has lived here most of his 50 years...and he does knows a lot.

 

[Deltaberry]

If Myers or ANZ had to discuss with all its employees everytime it installed some cameras, this country would go down the drain very quickly.

Not that employment laws aren't helping that cause already.