PM Responsibility for GF's

[DaveM]

With the ever increasing number of unapproved granny flats I see on for sale listings, do PM's have any responsibility to verify the legality of dwellings that their landlords ask them to manage?

Just interested to know as there are two properties with GF's I looked at a couple of months ago which were owner occupied and were sold and now have the house and GF listed up for rent seperately.

 

[esh]

I don't see anything wrong with that. Even if It was not an approved granny flat, ie "teenagers retreat" it should be fine. There are rooms that can be separately tenanted out (shared Tenancy) If it is not an approved granny flat , I don't think they should advertise it as that but do mention its separate from etc etc

 

[DaveM]

I am talking where there are two distinct tenancies on the property and the agent advertises and leases them independantly of each other.

I guess what I am interested in is, does the PM have any responsibility or liability to determine if the property they are letting is a legal dwelling that people are allowed to live in?

 

[wylie]

I'm curious about this too. In Queensland it is not legal to do this but it happens a lot. If I wasn't too scared to take the risk of being bankrupted if something bad happens, I'd love to add a granny flat to a few places and almost double the rent.

 

[mattysavager]

I don't think the PM should have any responsibility to ensure the property complies with building regulations or local planning regulations.

The landlord either purchased a property with a granny flat or they built one - and any of the above should have been part of their due diligence in both circumstances.

Personally - if someone asks me for an appraisal for a dual-living property - I ask them if it's been approved as part of the normal line of conversation. I think this more than satisfies my duty of care.

It would be within my duty of care notice any sparking electrical wires or any nails sticking up through the floor of a property that I am renting - but I think it's fairly unreasonable to try to shift blame for a non compliant property to the poor PM (which is what would happen).

Would I as a PM need to go around and measure door openings and stair riser heights? How far do we go?

Matt

 

[DaveM]

I don't think the PM should have any responsibility to ensure the property complies with building regulations or local planning regulations.

The landlord either purchased a property with a granny flat or they built one - and any of the above should have been part of their due diligence in both circumstances.

Personally - if someone asks me for an appraisal for a dual-living property - I ask them if it's been approved as part of the normal line of conversation. I think this more than satisfies my duty of care

Thats what was i was asking - do you ask? And if they say its not approved, do you then advertise it anyway?

 

[mattysavager]

I've only ever had one client tell me that a dual occupancy wasn't approved - It also wasn't finished being renovated, and then when it was he came back to me and told me it was ready to advertise, so I did.

My feeling is that the only reason I would ask the question is as a courtesy to any owner who might be totally oblivious to the requirement to have GFs approved at all (they are out there).

At the end of the day, it's up to each landlord as to whether or not they choose to follow the rules. I don't take on properties that are unsafe, but working in an old suburb in Brisbane, majority of the houses that I look after would not pass a building certification.

Matt

 

[The Y-man]

For a moment, I thought your PM was responsible for your Girl Friends...


The Y-man

 

[ozsupra]

PM works as an agent for the Landlord and as such does not accept responsibility for the legalities of the property. They do however have a duty of care not to rent premises that are obviously a safety risk.
If the granny flat is rented illegally guess who the council are going to fine?
A.

PS I have a neighbour who reports me every six months to the council for renting out my granny flat illegally - Problem is, it has never been rented, he just likes to stir up the council and I get an unannounced property inspection and everything is inspected. He did the same thing with the last owner so I have now advised the neighbour I will take legal action against him for harassment if it continues.

 

[jenni_nextplace]

My understanding is unfortunately it goes beyond duty of care, also due diligence is involved. As an agent you need to have proven you have done the appropriate searches and can't just go off the word of the owner, its no different than if you were selling a property or acting on maintenance issues.

Don't agents have a legal obligation to to ensure the property is in a fit and safe state to rent, it can't be if its not approved for occupancy.

I don't believe its a risk worth taking.

 

[BeYourOwnAgent]

For best practice purposes you should ask.

Agencies need to have a SOP (standard operating procedure) manual - which is constantly updated.

Whenever something new or interesting came up, I, as the principal, would write a new SOP and have it added to all the PM's folder, and they would need to read it and then sign a form stating they had read it.

Technically I would think it's the owners responsibility to make sure a structure is approved ... however, if there was an issue, I can guarantee a plaintiffs solicitor would come after the agency first (as the agency will have the professional indemnity insurance).

Not worth the hassle, for the sake of a simple question.

 

[neK]

I think it is the PM's responsibility to ask and subsequently decline where it is a non approved dwelling - then report the landlord in. If the landlord chooses to charge more rent (in hope that the tenant sees value in subletting) then thats their prerogative, an agent should not be assisting in anyway.

In NSW the legislation is there for granny flats done properly. People should stop abusing and making half a$s dodgy conversions and renting them out.

The same goes with real estate agents selling "dual occupancies"... rules such as fire rated walls exist for a reason. I've seen quite a few for sale that completely ignore these rules and its just wrong.

 

[Jen_PFR]

For a moment, I thought your PM was responsible for your Girl Friends...

Sounds sensible.... if Dave is already managing a wife, that's a full time job; I think outsourcing the girlfriend management is a smart move