Poor old generation Y

Where's that mindset here? What I'm saying is that the opportunities to purchase a starter home is far more limited than it was 30 years ago.

I'm saying that government incompetence is the biggest problem for people getting houses. And there's plenty of evidence to suggest that this is the case

firstly, we all understand that mass media is NOT a source to be trusted as truthful.

secondly, why do you believe a starter home is far more limited? what do you call a starter home? if you call a starter home the 3 bedroom/2 powerpoint, loo in the lean-to, park on the street miners cottage that way my first home - then there are plenty of those around, and they are very affordable.

that was my starter home, a mere 10 years ago.

however, if you call a starter home 4 bed/2 bath/dble gge new brick jobbie - then that is not comparing true.
 
firstly, we all understand that mass media is NOT a source to be trusted as truthful.

That's not mass media, it was widely reported in the local blogs before the Canberra Times even became aware of it.

http://the-riotact.com/?p=8230
http://the-riotact.com/?p=6135

This was an application to get land on which to develop, which was so poorly handled by the government that people camped out to get a hold of it. Families looking to purchase the blocks of land missed out as they were snapped up by builders.

I've never heard of anyone camping out to get land before. Now tell me it was harder 30 years ago.
 
I've never heard of anyone camping out to get land before. Now tell me it was harder 30 years ago.
Is that all it takes to get your hands on a block of land ? - camp out for a single night! I'd say those builders that 'got lucky' didn't whinge about it - they just did it. EVERYONE had the opportunity - only a few actually got off their a$$es.

Oh and it was the govts fault too :eek:. Surely those that put in the hard yards deserve the rewards.
 
I've never heard of anyone camping out to get land before. Now tell me it was harder 30 years ago.

sorry to disued you again ... people have been camping out for new land releases for as long as i can remember - at least as far back as my teens (which is were my awareness level kicks in), which was around 25 years ago. i am sure the oldies can recall such happening even further back.

and even 25 years ago many missed out.

nothing new there either.

ummmm - so blogs are now official sources of info too? interesting ....
 
I am no D&G type person but I think it might depend on where you live. Personally I believe Sydney is now harder to get into a decent area than it was for previous generations. I am lucky because I am on a good wicket but some of my friends are not in the same boat.

Think of all the suburbs that are a lot more expensive now than they were even 15 years ago. Anything in the inner ring or even most of the middle ring of Sydney is in no way "affordable" for the average punter to buy a house now days, some areas not even to buy a unit. Most areas are now "relatively" expensive for a new home buyer unless you want to go out to the far west. I can remember for example when Naremburn and Willoughby were cheap, now look at those areas! Same goes for Balmain, Manly, North Ryde etc etc. The list goes on.

Obviously this is due to gentrification, good economic times and more importantly demand. There is just many more people in Sydney now and no extra places to put them. Add this with the poor job of keeping up Infrastructure and basically now when people suggest an affordable area it seems to be places like Windsor, Cambeltown or Blacktown. Even the outer west was getting expensive until the last "correction".

So yes you can get into the market but not at the same point that previous generations could. However this is just the nature of a growing city. People cant expect to walk cheaply into a place where there parents lived or even close by. I am sure there are exceptions to this but in general it is the case. Even with a downturn this is not going to change. So people better get used to it :) Or work VERY hard to get ahead of the rest of your peers. And those with existing properties enjoy watching the value of your property (and your rents) continuing to go up! :D
 
Personally I believe Sydney is now harder to get into a decent area than it was for previous generations.

So yes you can get into the market but not at the same point that previous generations could.

i know you mean good - but this is a huge misconception. do you honestly think that when your parents bought in the "now" middle ring suburbs that they were middle ring.

of course not.

20-30-40 years ago they were considered "out in the sticks". taking an area i know as an example - newcastle - the bb generation can recall 40yrs ago when adamstown was down the end of a gravel road and you had to take a packed lunch if you were visiting - no public transport - no decent roads - but housing was affordable.

now it is considered a prime middle ring suburb.

the city grows, the rings grow - what was outer in now inner and a new affordable outer is created.
 
...do you honestly think that when your parents bought in the "now" middle ring suburbs that they were middle ring.
My FIL & MIL live on a large harbourfront block worth $2-3M. My MILs mother was born there, it was one of the cheapest blocks in Syd back then. It was cheap because it was right next to that smelly open sewer they now call the harbour - rat infested, smelly mangroves. They did it tough in the depression, the house was v. close to being repossessed, walked 5 miles each way to look for work.
 
This is but one of the reasons why I always say not to pin your future on super - Govt changes. You just know that every Govt change is going to be for the benefit of the Govt; no the superannuation clients.
helps employees of super funds, helps share market, helps .....

doesn't really help the client that much, bit of warm fuzzy feel, lets them think retirement funding is taken care of.

not a big fan of super.

cheers
Graeme
 
i know you mean good - but this is a huge misconception. do you honestly think that when your parents bought in the "now" middle ring suburbs that they were middle ring.

of course not.

20-30-40 years ago they were considered "out in the sticks". taking an area i know as an example - newcastle - the bb generation can recall 40yrs ago when adamstown was down the end of a gravel road and you had to take a packed lunch if you were visiting - no public transport - no decent roads - but housing was affordable.

now it is considered a prime middle ring suburb.

the city grows, the rings grow - what was outer in now inner and a new affordable outer is created.

Not in Sydney its not. Different areas of Sydney have grown at different rates. There was a time when a lot of the wealthy people lived on the upper North Shore in big estates in areas like Pymble and Wahroonga (middle ring) while all the workers lived on the water in North Sydney :) Manly used to be like a tiny little beach town where people went on Holiday! Suburbs like Surry Hills and Paddington were the real working class areas. How times have changed!

Even recently look at areas like Rhodes now, so close to wealthy Strathfield but was a workers area surrounded by industrial estates. Now look at what a unit there costs. Abbotsford, Chiswick, Drummoyne Mortlake and even Balmain 15 years ago? A fair bit less than you pay now :) Lots of inner Sydney has been transformed over the last 10 to 15 years (granted many started before that of course!). People who lived in these sorts of "working class" to middle class suburbs want to go back but now find that its a wealthy area that they can no longer afford. Even in the last 5 years look at how close a lot of previously cheap areas have caught up with the more established suburbs.

As for transport, most of the Rail transport that our city is based on was built in the late 1800s to 1940s! Most of our major road network has existed for over 50 years. Other than the odd expensive tunnel most of the major road projects have been linking areas out of Sydney! Infrastructure growth and improvement is a sticky subject in Sydney!

As for my parents they bought in a nice North Shore suburb as soon as they were married :) They had always lived in the inner ring and actually moved further out later on! The point is Sydney is a much bigger place than Newcastle. Outer ring is REALLY outer ring and in reality it cant go any further as there is not really any where to go. All looks very good for people in the market already :)

What I see in Gen Y is not the desire for a huge house with all the trimmings (very Gen X) but a desire to be close in. Even if it means living in a shoe box. I often hear them chatting away here at work and the big thing seems to be living close to where the action is. Ha! So they will have to rent I think because as I said its not getting any cheaper in "inner" Sydney and they are not making any more land there. So I cant see a new "outer ring in Sydney". Or is the Central Coast, Newcastle, Wollongong and Picton the new Sydney outer ring? I think our "rings" were set in place a long time ago! They are just filling out due to demand.

As I said, this is just gentrification and the signs that Sydney is not longer a little town. We have the same experiences that all major City's have as they grow. People just have to accept this. I say now it the time to be capitalising on this :D
 
Gen Y, Gen Y, baby boomers - who cares?

If you're doin' o.k - be thankful and stop whining. Get a real problem.

Better still; go out and help someone less fortunate - sponsor a third world kid or something. We do. No big deal. Actually; we're on our second one - the first one grew up.

Personally, I reckon every old codger on a pension should get a great deal; they've paid their dues to society, and most of them are poor in their old age.

All their taxes provided your roads, trains, buses and so on.

And all our private health premiums are used to pay for their care. oh yea, thats right, some of us are no longer forced into this anymore.
 
Oh, and just in case you whingers need any more evidence of "it can be done, despite how hard it is", here's as story for you.

My sister-in-law works as a tattooist. She is employed as a casual, and works her own hours. She is single, and only got her first real job as a nurse's assistant in 2000 at aged 30, after years on the dole and the drugs, living in communes and being a "free spirit".

Nett worth at 30: ZERO.

She took up tattooing in 2003. She earns about $35-40k per year now.

By 2003, she had saved a deposit to buy her current house (in The Pines in Frankston) which cost her $93k. It was an old $h!tbox 3 x 1 brick house on a big block of land.

Now, that house is worth is worth easily $250k, and she owes around $70k on it.

She's looking at doing a sub-division on it next year.

Yeah; it's really tough.

To be fair, she bought the house when it was $93,000, not when it was $250,000. There's a pretty big difference to someone on $35,000 a year buying a house for $93,000 and buying one for $250,000. Would any lender these days lend 250K to someone working casual making 35K a year?

Mark
 
I said:
Complaining about the disincentives in tax policy for high income earners is much the same as complaining about stamp duty or land tax for property investors.

LAA said:
Totally true. They should all pull their collective heads in and stop whining. I have no sympathy for a person who is earning good coin from whatever source, and complains on an open forum about some other punter getting a better deal.


Fair enough. I guess this gets down to the point of the forum. You are correct - it's not a forum about how Australia could be a better place if it had better tax policy / planning laws / local govt etc etc etc. It's more a place where we share info on how to create wealth through investing in property. The other things are side issues and should remain so.

Perhaps they are topics better suited to the coffee lounge as they still seem to interest a large number of forumites and are worthy of debate in their own right anyway...? So we can still contribute in our own miniscule democratic way to the betterment of society while continuing our personal wealth creation as well...
 
thats the point, she borrowed what she could at the time and now its worth $250k

The discussion isn't about 5 years ago. It's about today. If people are going to make comparisons, they should compare apples with apples. What's the point of telling a story about someone who bought a house for 2/5ths what it's worth now if someone on the same salary today couldnt buy that place at the price it is now?

Mark
 
well, I guess there is not a whole lot sense of injustice out there. Maybe the tax laws will stay the same.

LA, you have issues about a) how much you earn and b) not having a tertiary education. I am not upset or envious about other people's education, age, how much they earn or how much of a portfolio they have. I am also not below hearing from other people with less money than me or who are younger or older than me.

You also have an anger issue if you can get this irrate with someone you have never met and whom you know nothing about. I feel sorry for your family and in particular your children.

As a matter of fact, I do earn a decent non investment income, it was about 400k last year. I also went to uni. I also work damn hard and own my own business. I started investing when I was at uni. I started from nothing. I think I know something about investing but am humble enough to choose to put 50k a year into super. I am in my 40's. I have 2 rural properties, 3 houses and a commercial property in Australia. I am a strong hand. I will never sell my property or cash in my super, until I breath my last breath. I have the cashflow to do that and more. Maybe that is what you are really worried about. If you need to hear all positive things around you, have property gurus give you positive spin and property will go up forever, have people agree with you, then you are not so strong a hand. I wonder what has happened to quiggles ? I wonder where you will be and where dazzle will be in 20 years time. Try not to choke LA, because you now know the as*hole who will be buying a bargain from you when you do. HAHA...Topcropper and realgross may actually do ok. I know where I will be.

There are people who earn more than you, and there are people who earn more than me. Other people may have got to where they are by other means. I never stop learning.

Tax laws are of interest to me because they have a material effect on MY (and every investors) returns :
* Legislation abolishing tax deductibility for interest on negative gearing property transactions was enacted in 1985 under Paul Keating.
* CGT 50% rebate started in the 1999, when Peter Costello was treasurer

Well, I'd better stop procrastinating, back to work to pull in that $400 an hour. It was gooood talking to you LA, goood lucken.
 
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That's not mass media, it was widely reported in the local blogs before the Canberra Times even became aware of it.

http://the-riotact.com/?p=8230
http://the-riotact.com/?p=6135

This was an application to get land on which to develop, which was so poorly handled by the government that people camped out to get a hold of it. Families looking to purchase the blocks of land missed out as they were snapped up by builders.

I've never heard of anyone camping out to get land before. Now tell me it was harder 30 years ago.

Now you've just proved how much you don't know about property.

Thirty years ago, it was next to impossible for a woman to get a loan, and the families that did get loans had to save at least 20% cash deposit and have a savings history of at least a year I think it was to be even considered for one. Even then there was no automatic approval.

It was P&I - no IO was accessible, and the serviceability rate was at 30% of the family income, less any existing loans.

The reason why they're all camped out these days is because they've all got access to finance - men and women alike, and I'll bet a good number of them are signing up for 50% of their income in loan repayments, and on IO loans in many cases, with high LVR's and MI on top.

Come down to Melb and see just how many "starter homes" there are available around the City's outskirts.

"Oh, but hey...that's not where I want to live!"
 
am one of those Gen Y'ers, and i feel the tax squeeze!

So, what's your age, income and tax level?

Higher income earners have always paid a higher rate of tax than the lower income earners.

It's not fair, but it's the way it is.

I think the average wage in Aus these days is around $1000 p/week - $52k p/year?

The high income earners in PAYE jobs get reamed the most it's true, but there's no gun at their head saying they must work in that job.

They can always choose another form of employment, or run a business where the tax incentives are better. There's more risk in that of course, but the incentives are good.
 
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To be fair, she bought the house when it was $93,000, not when it was $250,000. There's a pretty big difference to someone on $35,000 a year buying a house for $93,000 and buying one for $250,000. Would any lender these days lend 250K to someone working casual making 35K a year?

Mark

Maybe one of the brokers can answer that one. It would depend on their deposit I guess. My S-I-L put in $12k, and borrowed around $9k from her Mum and Dad to qualify for the loan.

The same house was probably bought by the previous owners 20 years before for $20k.

So, did my S-I-L get scammed at $93k?

The person on $35k per year would have to save a deposit just like my S-I-L, and live frugally in order to do it I'm sure.
 
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