Property Investment Rookie...

Hello all,

I have been lurking here for some time, after reading Jan Somer's More Wealth From Residential Property, earlier this year. Prior to that book, I read Graham J. Airey's The Property Investor's Handbook.

I'd just like to say that this place has a nice sense of community to it, and I am glad to become a part of it. This is by far the most friendliest forums I've ever read online. :)

So a little about myself...

I finished High School in 2001, and only 2 days ago, found out I now officially graduate from university. I am 20 years old and currently living at home.

So how did I get interested in property investment?

On A Current Affair a couple of years ago, I remember seeing a segment on residential property investment, and how people are using it to make capital gains in property, (of course, anything on that show, I tend to take with a grain of salt). Anyway, I thought this was very interesting, and naturally talked to my Dad about it. He noted that a few people he knows from work are property investors, so I considered this to be a little "inspiration". Hence, I bought a couple of books, and since, have been getting most of the monthly editions of API magazine.

I have since thought about the kind of property investment I wish to get involved in, and I think the "buy and hold" strategy is best. I would like to retire on the rental income that this property would provide. Retire is a strange word to contemplate, at the age of 20, but I think it is no less important at my age!

I am now at the stage in my life where I can now start looking for a job in my field, after just completing my university degree.

I know it is important in any investment disciple to have some sort of a plan in place, to let one know their direction, how they're going, and where they're at.

At the moment, I would eventually like to start investing, by firstly getting my own PPOR, and to pay that off as quickly as possible. Then, when enough equity has been acquired, to buy some more property, and keep on going. As of yet, I haven't really set a goal for where I would like to be in property investment later in my life, although I know I wish to become "financially independent", and I would love to be able to financially contribute to research that I believe is important, e.g. renewable energy sources, etc...

It would also be really good to be able to still live at home for a few more years with a good job, and buy a place for renting out. This way, I could plough some of my income, as well as the rental income, into paying off the loan as fast as possible. But then again, who knows where I might be looking for a job. :p

Anyway, I was just wondering if anyone has any past experiences, or advice, perhaps that relate to my position, that may help me, and others, in starting out? I consider that in my position of wanting to enter property investment, puts me in a much better position than my friends, who don't think about this sort of thing. :rolleyes:

Thank you very much,
-Merovingian. :)
 
Hi Merovingian,

Welcome to the forum.

By starting to think about investing early you are doing yourself (and your potential future family) a huge service. Many of us don't get seriously into thinking about investing until later in life & then have less years for compounding to deliver good buy & hold returns.

A suggestion for you, if your home situation is stable & you can find work within a reasonable distance, think about saving for an investment property first. I'd anticipate that this would take you a couple of years - which is likely to be a good time to enter the market.

In the meantime you may even consider a share-based saving approach, as supported by Navra Invest (see Steve Navra's posts on this forum). This can help accelerate your savings once you have a job (and share investing is as safe as houses if it's managed appropriately & your expectations are right).

Asides from reading the books I recommend that you begin learning about your local property market. Keep track of sales & price trends, infrastructure going in or coming out and go and look at the open houses to begin your practical education. That way when you're in a position to begin buying you'll know the market well & be able to identify the opportunities quickly and discard the poorer choices without wasting time & energy. Even if you move & change markets, your fundamental market knowledge will help you in identifying which buyers need a fast (and cheap) sale, which properties are sound & in good locations and what the trends are likely to be.

All the best on your journey!

Cheers,

Aceyducey
 
Greetings Merovingian

Welcome to the forum.

I am only new here myself, and you are quite correct, this is definitely one of, if not the most friendly forum I have had the pleasure of reading. I have read lots of forums on all manner of topics yet this is the only one I have decided to take an active role in.

You will find there are many investors here with vastly different backgrounds, ideas and investment methods. Ie developers, wrappers, flippers, off shore, etc on and on. Most seem very willing to pass on their knowledge and help each other out.

In the short time I have been visiting I have seen and partaken in several worthwhile discussions. Even though you are new and as yet not very experienced, I personally believe everyone has something to offer. So please, don't be shy. Post away. Only silly question is one not asked.

My advice would be, you only gain experience by doing and without experience you won't get far. I agree with Acey, may be better to go for an investment property first. Personally I'm not too keen on negative gearing but you'll find others here who are. You really will need to read, ask, learn and decide which way you want to go.

Best of luck and I look forward to hearing more from you soon.

Regards

Highlander
 
Merovingian said:
Hello all,


It would also be really good to be able to still live at home for a few more years with a good job, and buy a place for renting out. This way, I could plough some of my income, as well as the rental income, into paying off the loan as fast as possible. But then again, who knows where I might be looking for a job. :p

Anyway, I was just wondering if anyone has any past experiences, or advice, perhaps that relate to my position, that may help me, and others, in starting out? I consider that in my position of wanting to enter property investment, puts me in a much better position than my friends, who don't think about this sort of thing. :rolleyes:

Thank you very much,
-Merovingian. :)

Hi Merovingian,

Welcome aboard!

I lived at home with my parents for a loooooooong time - till I was 30+ :eek:
Mind you, being in the classic middle class family, didn't do my finances any good (spent it all on my car)! Still, when I got married we did end up buying an IP first, because we weren't sure where we wanted to settle down (still haven't decided 7 years later.....kept buying IP's though :p ).

Once you start working - start putting a deposit together. Remember that this doesn't have to be in a bank - it can be in managed investments or in direct shares - which may get you better returns, and still be recognized as "savings history".

And yes - you are in a better position financially than some of your friend who have not yet started planning.

Cheers,

The Y-man
 
Hi Merovingian

Good on you for being interested in investing as your own idea.

My No. 1 Son bought his first property when he was 16 & half and Daughter bought her first when 18 & 4 months, each of them saving the deposit from evening & weekend work at Bi-Lo while still at secondary school.

No. 2 Son is determined to turn the key in the door on his 18th Birthday next year.

If your parents are happy to assist you with boarding at home, and assuming you get full time work soon, there is no reason why you cant have your first property as your Christmas present 2005.

If you think you can, you're right
If you think you can't, you're right.

If this is what you want you can make it happen.

Good luck, the future is closer than you think.

Cheers

Kristine
 
Kristine.. said:
Hi Merovingian

Good on you for being interested in investing as your own idea.

My No. 1 Son bought his first property when he was 16 & half and Daughter bought her first when 18 & 4 months, each of them saving the deposit from evening & weekend work at Bi-Lo while still at secondary school.

No. 2 Son is determined to turn the key in the door on his 18th Birthday next year.

Wow, that's pretty young!

I would love to get started as quickly as possible, but while saving a deposit, I should do some more reading, plus some substantial research into some good areas in metropolitan Adelaide.

Kristine.. said:
If your parents are happy to assist you with boarding at home, and assuming you get full time work soon, there is no reason why you cant have your first property as your Christmas present 2005.

If you think you can, you're right
If you think you can't, you're right.

If this is what you want you can make it happen.

Good luck, the future is closer than you think.

A few of you have suggested share-based deposit saving strategies. I've never been fond of the sharemarket, due to its volatility. There's no doubt that I could find it very helpful, but I've never felt comfortable with the idea of placing money into the "hands of a corporation". While one has more control over where the money can be distributed, the way the money "performs" isn't really in my control, in the same way as property that is.

A false conviction perhaps? There was a section devoted to this argument in Airey's Property Investor's Handbook, for memory... :rolleyes:

Thanks,
-Merovingian.
 
You are certainly in a much better position than your friends. You have done yourself a great service in learning about the world of investment. I have no doubt that you will be able to purchase that 1st property sometime soon. Take advantage of the fact that you live at home. If your parents are keen to let you stay on, then do so as this will help propel you on your way, by keeping expenses low. If you don't have a job at present, go out and get one, and save as much as you can, while still giving yourself a small 'sanity allowance' to do the things young people do. Don't waste money on needless things and you will have a large deposit in no time. Good luck!
 
Merovingian said:
I've never been fond of the sharemarket, due to its volatility.

While one has more control over where the money can be distributed, the way the money "performs" isn't really in my control, in the same way as property that is.

A false conviction perhaps? There was a section devoted to this argument in Airey's Property Investor's Handbook, for memory... :rolleyes:
Hi Merovingian,

Certainly there are volatile shares, just as there are stable shares.

And 'control' is an elusive concept....You 'control' a property...but if the government wants it you have no choice but to sell...and you cannot 'control' the neighbourhood which defines the property's range of values. Even worse, properties take a long time to sell (even longer if something goes bad).

With shares you cannot control the management of the company, but you can get in and out fast (even if you may take a small loss).

In both cases knowledge is power - the more you understand about the investment process, the market & about the specific property/company the better you will do.

So which is safer? The investment you know the most about!

I suggest you read up on shares more & consider attending one of Steve Navra's seminars.

Cheers,

Aceyducey
 
Another thought, Merovingian.

If your parents are prepared to provide their home as security, and you commence employment (to have some income to provide loan serviceability) straightaway, you might be in a position to get investment property number one THIS Christmas!!

Set your goals; make a plan, make it happen.

Best wishes on the journey.
 
Pete said:
Another thought, Merovingian.

If your parents are prepared to provide their home as security, and you commence employment (to have some income to provide loan serviceability) straightaway, you might be in a position to get investment property number one THIS Christmas!!

Set your goals; make a plan, make it happen.

Best wishes on the journey.

A nice thought, but it won't happen. My parents probably wouldn't like the house as security — I mean, that's probably fair enough, it's their house. My parents stress over this sort of thing, (what ifs, and all). Also, I still believe I need to do a lot more reading, (books and magazines), and research on the Adelaide property market, etc, whilst making a deposit...

By the time I have a deposit, hopefully the property market is starting to climb again, not that that is a major concern for me at this point.

I guess the bottom line is, I know that I don't know enough to take action yet, so I need to keep reading, and probably talk to some investors I know about how they started, what they learnt, and perhaps what they did wrong. Plus, all the legal stuff(*), including conveyancing, solicitors, taxes, and the like, are really my weak point at the moment. I need to understand these things to a much better degree before taking the plunge.

To that end, can anyone recommend some good books that relate to property investment and the above things(*), so I can increase my Property Knowledge Quota™? Should I speak to real estate agents, asking questions, etc?

As they say, Knowledge is power, and to know one's, (my), ignorance is part of knowledge. (I knew the sayings on the back of those multi-trip train tickets would come in handy).

Thanks again, this is a very helpful forum. I hope to be answering questions in time... :)
-Merovingian.
 
Merovingian,

There's a recommended reading list in the FAQ section.

Look at the library first - buy the ones you wish to reread regularly :)

Cheers,

Aceyducey
 
hi Merovingian

If I were in your shoes, this is what I would do:

1 earn more, spend less, acquire assets - knowledge and investments
2 aim for the deposit and savings history
3 look at the lower residential end, worst house - best street, great transport, shopping, non-slum criteria
4 buy PPOR - live-in about 6 months, get the FHOG and stamp duty concession
5 justify serviceability to bank based on renting some rooms
6 fix-up while in it - learn some DIY work, increase equity and launching pad for IPs

All these steps should take about 1-3 years. It took me 7 years! :eek:
 
Merovingian said:
Forgive my ignorance, but what do you mean by this exactly? Sorry. ;)

Thanks again,
-Merovingian.

Hi Merovingian,

By renting out a room or two, you're decreasing the financial burden to carry all loan repayments yourself.

For instance, if your loan repayments were $300/week and you weren't earning a lot of money, a bank might think twice about lending you further funds to purchase on investment property, based on the amount youre paying off your home. If you were to have two tenants rent spare rooms at $100/week each, your own repayments have just gone from $300/week to $100/week.

Often, its something like this that allows investors to overcome serviceability hurdles and move onto the next purchase.

Jamie.
 
Well explained, Jamie.

Also, by renting out 2 rooms of a 3 bedroom place you may claim two thirds of the costs - interest, rates, insurance, depreciation, etc., etc - and with the tax benefits obtain a "turbo boost"! Of course, the rental income is declared too.
 
Hmm, the old FHOG.. I'm in a similar position.. living at home looking for a 2 bedroom apartment in Sydney I can live in and share out - mainly concentrating on the saving part right now - time/ing seems to be on my side.

However, having read DaleG's 'Trust Magic', I'm divided between buying it myself to get the FHOG / Stamp duty concessions or to set up a trust and buy it through that (forgoing the grant, but giving me more benefits in the long run).

To be honest though, I think I need to re-read the book (what were all the benefits again? :) ) and start playing with figures a bit more. I even wonder about buying though the trust and renting to myself, as I know some of you are doing.

So.. I haven't really made a point or asked a proper question have I?!? :D
Just throwing the idea out I guess - I'd be curious as to what people's thoughts are on this.
 
IMHO:

Use the best approach you can use at the appropriate time. Don't wait and miss the entry because you're looking for a more tax effective way to buy in.

If using the FHOG gets you into the market at the right place at the time (according to your research), don't wait about for a big enough deposit so you can use the trust approach & miss the opportunity.

If you're set up to buy through a trust at the right time, do this instead.

You're unlikely to make your fortune on the first property you buy - but it is your kickoff that leverages more. When property prices are moving, buying sooner is an important boost to your ability to compound your wealth.

Note: We used the FHOG on our first PPOR. We upgraded into a property our Trust owns. If we'd waited to buy the 2nd property first, we'd be at least four years behind where we are now.

Cheers,

Aceyducey
 
Aceyducey, can you direct a newbie on how to study the local property markety? Thanks in advance.
Aceyducey said:
Asides from reading the books I recommend that you begin learning about your local property market. Keep track of sales & price trends, infrastructure going in or coming out and go and look at the open houses to begin your practical education. That way when you're in a position to begin buying you'll know the market well & be able to identify the opportunities quickly and discard the poorer choices without wasting time & energy. Even if you move & change markets, your fundamental market knowledge will help you in identifying which buyers need a fast (and cheap) sale, which properties are sound & in good locations and what the trends are likely to be.
 
iKwak,

Start by following the suggestions in my email.
Keep track of sales & price trends, infrastructure going in or coming out and go and look at the open houses to begin your practical education.

Talk to agents, go to open houses, keep track of sales & rental data (from agents, newspapers, websites & other sources you can find)

Cheers,

Aceyducey
 
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