Property manager double standards on condition reports!

[rodimus]

Hi

may i know what are the conditions for tenants when moving out?

- do they have to keep the apartment in a reasonably clean condition, or spotless clean? Eg, the place where I rent now, the stupid PM told me " I dont want to see even any cloth wipe marks! If I do I will call in my cleaners and charge you!" Anyway I hate his intimidating tonality. Is that guy talking sense or just trying to intimidate tenants?

When I moved in a few years ago it was a different PM (who has since resigned and replace by this new stupid one). The previous one was quite easy going on her inspections when I "checked in". A few of the defects I actually spotted and had to add it in to the conditions report for fear they say i did it.

But now, with this stupid PM saying he doesnt even want any cloth wipe marks, can I say they are using double standard? I mean, I can't bring the apartment to a better condition than when I moved in right?

 

[skater]

Your responsibility as a tenant is to leave a property in the same condition as you moved into it, less any fair wear & tear. This means it should be clean (if it was clean when you moved in) & undamaged (again if it was undamaged when you moved in). A few minor blemishes are normal & should not be worried about.

I have met a few PM's like that. They are the ones who treat all tenants as if they are the scum of the earth & the landlords can do no wrong. Then you get the other side of the coin, where the PM thinks that all landlords are rich & tenants cop a raw deal.

Ideally you get a fair one who treats with respect both landlords & tenants, will recognise the difference between petty nuisance maintenance requests & real issues, will come down hard on the problem tenants & keep rents at market prices.

 

[rodimus]

Thanks skater,

I am unsure what I should do in this situation.

I find the PM very intimidating, talking to me with his loud voice "Listen, if i find any wipe cloth marks, i will ask the cleaner to clean the whole house and you have to pay him." He probably thinks he has my bond and i have to fear him.

My inspection is coming in the middle of march when i will move out.

I have intended to use the PM's approved cleaner to make things easier for me (to avoid him saying my carpet cleaner is no good and force me to use his again).

Should I write him a letter/email saying i want to use his cleaner, and state my hope that he as a PM will act professionally when accessing, since I think he is a bit too picky compared to the old PM who checked me in (hence fear of PM using double standard).

If he doesn't act professionally, is there somewhere I can lodge a complaint or report?

 

[Dazz]

When I moved in a few years ago....

I mean, I can't bring the apartment to a better condition than when I moved in right?

Why not ?? I've never understood this mentality. It's your abode for heaven's sake, and has been for years. Of course you can improve it.


When we last rented, I asked for a skip bin to clean up the yard. It was there within 24 hours, and we spent an enjoyable but physically demanding weekend cleaning up the backyard. So what. We then enjoyed our enhanced surroundings for the next 8 months whilst there. The kudos I got from the Landlord was overwhelming. It wasn't necessary - my family and I received the benefit.

We also put in a split air-con and left it when we left after 8 months. We needed it. It was hot. We bought it and installed it. We were cool and comfy. Job done. We paid - we got the benefit....that's how it's meant to work.


Trouble is, some tenant's have the mindset that they squeeze the LL for everything they are worth, take everything and give nothing. They'll spend months whinging about not being provided with something, and send letter after letter demanding and monaing about petty stuff...."it's the principle" they scream. "I know my rights" !!!!


Rodimus, you've got your signed initial condition report.....you've been in there a few years, and it sounds despite the intimidating male PM (never seen one of those - is that an oxymoron) giving you the willys, you are in the box seat. They cannot take your bond away without your agreeance and signature. Just don't sign the Bond form when you move out....if you've been reasonable.

If it goes to tribunal, doesn't matter what they threaten - you are the tenant - you'll win.

 

[skater]

Thanks skater,

I am unsure what I should do in this situation.

I find the PM very intimidating, talking to me with his loud voice "Listen, if i find any wipe cloth marks, i will ask the cleaner to clean the whole house and you have to pay him." He probably thinks he has my bond and i have to fear him.

My inspection is coming in the middle of march when i will move out.

I have intended to use the PM's approved cleaner to make things easier for me (to avoid him saying my carpet cleaner is no good and force me to use his again).

Should I write him a letter/email saying i want to use his cleaner, and state my hope that he as a PM will act professionally when accessing, since I think he is a bit too picky compared to the old PM who checked me in (hence fear of PM using double standard).

If he doesn't act professionally, is there somewhere I can lodge a complaint or report?

You don't have to use his cleaner, in fact you can do the cleaning yourself if you so want. When you leave, they should do another inspection, why not go with them. Take photo's if you feel there is going to be any problems & if your camera has a date stamp on it all the better. When applying to get your bond back, if they try & say it is being withheld for (insert purpose here), you then have the evedance that you have left it in good condition.

 

[buzzlightyear]

Rodimus, sounds like he is over zealously protecting the landlords interests. Maybe it belongs to a relative of his?!

If you wish, use his cleaner, (although I would just clean it myself) but as skater mentioned as long as it is clean (less fair wear and tear) you're in the clear. If he is pedantic, then I would be equally as zealous about how you have met all your legal responsibilities. If he really thought you hadn't and then went through with his threat, he would need to go to the tenancy tribunal with evidence. He would be laughed out of the hearing, but not before the LL said to him to get over himself and stop wasting their money and time.

By the way, who says, "Listen, if i find any wipe cloth marks, i will ask the cleaner to clean the whole house and you have to pay him" What a d%$&head and a bully. Its all bluff...

Let us know how you go.

 

[wylie]

If and when you move out, why not clean it as you would normally, and take lots of photos. Then lodge your bond claim form first. If you get in first the landlord has to prove you did not clean it properly. If you let him get in first, you have to justify yourself. (At least, this is what I have been told.)

I do know that last year, my mother's tenants took her to the tribunal because they said they had cleaned. It was a dog's breakfast, filthy, filthy, filthy. We called in cleaners and asked for the costs to be taken from the bond.

Luckily, I had taken lots of photos and it was clearly evident that they had not cleaned a thing. Judge threw them out, my mother got the cleaning money back, plus a few other legitimate things (eg. cost of new hose after they took the old one) we claimed just to stick it to these obnoxious people and teach them a lesson.

I watched the judge's face and when he saw the photos, I felt quietly confident we were home and hosed.

A picture is worth a thousand words. Take photos of your cleaned house so you are armed and ready.

 

[rodimus]

Thanks guys !
Well I own properties myself, and surprised how intimidating he can be. I mean, Im the tenant, a client, he should be nice to me too. I was very tempted to tell him to $#@$ off and act professionally that day on the phone, but i think better not create trouble since bond is with him.

Wylie, when you say I have to lodge a bond form, where do I lodge it to?

I thought when I move out, the agent comes and looks at the apartment, if its clean, he returns me my bond (since it is in his trust fund).

So where do I get that bond form?

THis is the first time i'm being a tenant so I dunno the procedures...

 

[wylie]

In Queensland it is not in any trust fund, but lodged with the RTA. We self manage, so get the Queensland forms from the Residential Tenancies Association (RTA) website.

If we are not happy with how a house is left, we can lodge the form with our signatures and they lodge their form with theirs, if they don't want to sign the form as we see it.

Not sure about other states.

 

[skater]

Wylie is right, the Bond is not held in the Trust Account. Not sure who holds it in Vic, but someone here will be able to give you that info.

 

[rodimus]

Im actually renting in SYdney NSW now. Does anyone know if the bond is held in a trust? Do I need to sign to agree to the manager's report too?

I hope i have some leverage on my side too to get my full bond back/

 

[skater]

Im actually renting in SYdney NSW now. Does anyone know if the bond is held in a trust? Do I need to sign to agree to the manager's report too?

I hope i have some leverage on my side too to get my full bond back/

The PM will have lodged the Bond with the Department of Fair Trading. A Bond should NEVER be held in the Agent's Trust Account.

 

[Erin]

Im actually renting in SYdney NSW now. Does anyone know if the bond is held in a trust? Do I need to sign to agree to the manager's report too?

I hope i have some leverage on my side too to get my full bond back/

Your bond is held with the rental bond board (office of fair trading). The agent lodges your bond within 7 days of the beginning of your tenancy, they are legally not allowed to hold it themselves.

At the end of your tenancy, the PM will do an outgoing inspection and compare the premises with the original condition report when you first moved in. If there is disagreement on the condition of the premises, either party may send a claim for refund of bond money form to the rental bond board without the signature of the other party. A letter will be sent to the other party advising them of the claim and giving them 14 days to apply to the CTTT to dispute the claim. If no reply is received within 14 days the bond will then be paid out.

No matter who applies to the Tribunal, it is always up to the landlord to prove any claim on the bond.

 

[caterpillar]

Rodimus, as long as you clean the place reasonably, they cannot withhold your bond. Don't worry about him. If he doesn't return it, you can fill out the bond claim form and send it to the fair trading office to get it back.

 

[rodimus]

Hi all,

thanks for your advice.

Is there any allowances for wear and tear of things?
One thing, the vertical blinds in my room are very old, and they could not be opened by pulling the string. So we had resorted to pulling the blind sideways to open it. Once my friend was in my room and she pulled too strongly and one of the blind fell off. Do I have to pay for that?

Should I tell the agent now, since I have another week left in this rental apartment. Or just don't say anything until they do the inspection on the last day hoping they wont see it?

I mean, for my investment property, if anything is spoilt, I was the one to pay for repairs.

 

[skater]

If, as you say, they were old, & not in the best of nick, then I would consider that wear & tear. These things don't last forever.