Rams Rate Shearer seems very good indeed?

[Serenas]

Hi everybody,

I thought this might be good news for me to share with you, though my conveyancer kept saying a lot of bad things about Rams from beginning till now (he himself also does MB but I was not going through him since Rams is basically not dealing with MBs ).

We applied to Rams for the loan (to be settled mid July) for their Rate Shearer, first three years 6.96% and after the three years, rate will increase slightly not too much. What I like about it is that at the time of my application(early May or late June), I was told the exit costs would be $1600/$1000/$600 if you discharge your loans in the 1st/2nd/3rd year respectively, but recently my Rams MB told me that the exit costs went away on May 26th...which was good news...also my application fee of $595 was waived though I was caught in btw their two promotion periods of free application fees.

From what I have experienced so far, I feel like Rams seems quite good or at least not as bad as many stories or as my conveyancer's says with a lot of hidden fees or costs etc....?

But of course I might be wrong...would appreciate inputs from anybody who has experiences especially recently with them for their Rate Shearer

BTW, the Mortgagee is Westpack anyway, and I thought how could they really dare to charge people with hidden costs other than what the loan documents agreed? (I have received the loan docs more than a week now and been reading carefully and don't seem to see lots of tricks yet).

Well, the reason I chose Rams because I read from somewhere who says Rams has good construction loan for small development under $1mil, which will lend against end value instead of construction costs only...

 

[Peter_Tersteeg]

On two occassions RAMS have screwed with not only mortgage brokers, but their customers as well. I've tried to refer customers directly to them, only to receive abysmal service and incorrect advice.

I'm not too fussed about this as a broker at this point, but it's also adversely effected the borrowers.

Frankly I don't care if they offer rates of 4%. They'd need to make some serious back office and management changes before I'll deal with them again. Their funding is secure, but I'm not impressed by the way they do business.

 

[Serenas]

Thank you Peter for your input. I reckon Rams must have hurt a lot of customers as well as brokers and done nasty things etc. But well, that broker at Rams Dee Why really seemed nice guy and professional to us. We actually also got pre-approval from NAB but since I don't like Cross loan (we have had a loan with NAB and I don't know how not to cross) so I choose Rams.

And when I was told that their exit costs went away recently, I thought maybe they are now trying to really do something to correct their previously bad behavours, like what you said, change their way of doing business hopefully?............

 

[MC1]

I'd stay miles away from rams, plenty of better products and lenders out there.

Ask an RHG customer how they feel about rams ....

 

[Kristine..]

What does RAMS have to do with RHG?

Sorry, MC1, but you are showing your ignorance

Westpac owns RAMS and shortly after buying the RAMS brand name and franchise operations, Westpac also took over St George.

RHGL is a completely separate company to RAMS Home Loans.

Cheers
Kristine

 

[Rolf Latham]

Hi Serena

Its a nice rate, though not a stand out .

Moe importantly, what are you going to use the loan for ? Is it fit for your defined current purpose, and future need ?

Actually many brokers still have commission paying arrangements with RAMS, just not the model that we are all used to.

I had my fair share of run in with RAMS when they moved to using WLMI as their mortgage insurer, and there was a point where SGLMI and WLMI were merged.............and no one told anybody for weeks, not RAMS fran owners, BDMs or even credit

As a result I had a bunch of CRAA enquiries on client files that were never going to go anywhere. After a bit of argy we did have them removed !

ta

rolf

 

[Mick C]

Hi,

Ram has it's good and bad runs...like any bank; but RAMS in the pass tend to have slightly more bad runs It has improved since the Westpac take over from what previous client are advising us.

But they are one of the few that will allow end cost of construction to be used; which helps if this is what your after- to max your borrowing...., Also i heard they provide a "construction" consultant manger to your case,rather then dealing with multiple ppl....

Regards
Michael

 

[Serenas]

Just heard their no more exit fees will only apply after July 1st

Thanks a bunch Rolf,

I really wish the loan with Rams/Westpac is going to be OK, and I can proceed.

I went to see my conveyancer today, to hand in the stamp duty fee while also for him to have a look at my signed loan docs before I send back to Mortgage Settlements Australia (who sent us the loan docs so should be representing Westpac). This time the whole loan document things really look much different from our past purchases/settlements with NAB or HSBC(I don't recall having any third party for the settlement other than the bank themselves).

Well, my conveyancer talked me almost till I got scared of continuing to proceed...he first told me never to believe what Rams people said, "well, they said the exist fees went away on May 26th, but then where is it as written legal evidence?" I said, "well, it's not here in the loan doc, but it was in my email, he really told me in my email the exist costs went away after May 26th". "Well, he told you so but indeed Rams exit fees will only go away after July 1st, just like St George.. you see, you have signed all your documents here on June 24th they will certainly treat you as old terms..."

I then ask my conveyancer if I could re-date my signed loan docs to be July 1st and give one more signature wherever I re-date it (which is usually the case when you make a change or cross something in a legal document as far as I understand) ..."then it would be a sure thing that there will be no exit fees for me maybe? "I said to my conveyancer. ..."They wouldn't accept the loan docs if you do that...", he concluded, "you see, the banks are all smart this is why they sent you the loan docs so late so you wouldn't have time to change to another bank, but you borrowed 95%, and you wouldn't exit anyway, 'cause exit costs with the LMI alone will be too much for you..."

I came back home quite confused, and frustrated. So decided to wait for one more day or two before I do anything further, eg sending back the signed loan docs to Mortgage Settlements Australia..

Just wonder how possible they could charge me for exit fees if the loan docs are not with any such clause--I looked through all the small prints and found no sign of it, and I even emailed my contact at Rams Dee Why asked him where the clause regarding exit fees was, he emailed me back saying they went away since May 26th...

Anybody of you really think in this case the guy at Rams was sort of like what my conveyancer says, just mucking around and putting me in a ambiguous situation so my loan with them will certainly be treated as before July 1st, with their exit fees $1600/$1000/$600 still applying to my loan?

Any opinions would be appreciated.

Serena

Hi Serena

Its a nice rate, though not a stand out .

Moe importantly, what are you going to use the loan for ? Is it fit for your defined current purpose, and future need ?

Actually many brokers still have commission paying arrangements with RAMS, just not the model that we are all used to.

I had my fair share of run in with RAMS when they moved to using WLMI as their mortgage insurer, and there was a point where SGLMI and WLMI were merged.............and no one told anybody for weeks, not RAMS fran owners, BDMs or even credit

As a result I had a bunch of CRAA enquiries on client files that were never going to go anywhere. After a bit of argy we did have them removed !

ta

rolf

 

[Serenas]

Hi Serena

Its a nice rate, though not a stand out .

Moe importantly, what are you going to use the loan for ? Is it fit for your defined current purpose, and future need ?

Sorry forgot to answer your quetion Rolf. I use the loan for purchasing an old house with a large block of land having an idea in mind to build one or two more units in the backyard in the future for possible subdivision or strata subdivision (I have never done such a thing before, but the council people say possible during my brief meetup with them). So I will need construction loans in the future. Rams is said to be able to allow 4 units maximum on one title, and CMA allows only 3 units something. and I like the idea that Rams could lend against end values...which sounds to me they are the type of banks that really like property investment or encourage people to do property investment...well, if what I heard (lending against end values) is true...

Just wonder anybody here has ever borrowed from Rams, or any other banks/lenders, with their lending against end values for construction loans? Would appreciate your sharing experience.

Cheers.
serena

 

[MC1]

What does RAMS have to do with RHG?

Sorry, MC1, but you are showing your ignorance

Westpac owns RAMS and shortly after buying the RAMS brand name and franchise operations, Westpac also took over St George.

RHGL is a completely separate company to RAMS Home Loans.

Cheers
Kristine

Rams had a lot to do with RHG .....

And thanks for pointing the obvious regarding Westpac and Rams .... would never have known.....

I guess I'm not as forgiving to a corporate *** drilling as others ..... to me, Rams is still Rams, I don't really care who owns them ...... and like i said previously, plenty of better lenders and products out there ..

 

[Kristine..]

No, RAMS did not have a lot to do with RHG

It is only recent history but I guess everyone has already forgotten

Ah well, today's rooster is tomorrow's feather duster.

Cheers

 

[Ausprop]

its funny how after the GFC nothing has changed in lending world. If a bank decides it no longer cares about its goodwill it can just shaft the bejeesus out of its current loan book and go for the kill. 3% rate increase? why not? with a $40k or so exit fee they aren't going anywhere. I know plenty of people that copped a shearing from rams or rhg or fluffy sheep or whatver the rams mk1 was called

I recenlty did some construction loans with one of the rams. apart from the rate it was pretty smooth. perhaps its a case of construt with them and then go refi with one of the big 4 morons?

 

[Rolf Latham]

Hi Serena

Seems that the product will be a good fit for you then, based on that limited data.

I know that WLMI will do for RAMS what they WONT do for RAMS parents.


Like Magic Dust Lo doc loans, 95 % refis and other near "walk on water" miracles.

Dont know that they will do 4 units construct on end value @ 95 % though

ta
rolf

 

[Terryw]

Thanks a bunch Rolf,

I really wish the loan with Rams/Westpac is going to be OK, and I can proceed.

I went to see my conveyancer today, to hand in the stamp duty fee while also for him to have a look at my signed loan docs before I send back to Mortgage Settlements Australia (who sent us the loan docs so should be representing Westpac). This time the whole loan document things really look much different from our past purchases/settlements with NAB or HSBC(I don't recall having any third party for the settlement other than the bank themselves).

Well, my conveyancer talked me almost till I got scared of continuing to proceed...he first told me never to believe what Rams people said, "well, they said the exist fees went away on May 26th, but then where is it as written legal evidence?" I said, "well, it's not here in the loan doc, but it was in my email, he really told me in my email the exist costs went away after May 26th". "Well, he told you so but indeed Rams exit fees will only go away after July 1st, just like St George.. you see, you have signed all your documents here on June 24th they will certainly treat you as old terms..."

I then ask my conveyancer if I could re-date my signed loan docs to be July 1st and give one more signature wherever I re-date it (which is usually the case when you make a change or cross something in a legal document as far as I understand) ..."then it would be a sure thing that there will be no exit fees for me maybe? "I said to my conveyancer. ..."They wouldn't accept the loan docs if you do that...", he concluded, "you see, the banks are all smart this is why they sent you the loan docs so late so you wouldn't have time to change to another bank, but you borrowed 95%, and you wouldn't exit anyway, 'cause exit costs with the LMI alone will be too much for you..."

I came back home quite confused, and frustrated. So decided to wait for one more day or two before I do anything further, eg sending back the signed loan docs to Mortgage Settlements Australia..

Just wonder how possible they could charge me for exit fees if the loan docs are not with any such clause--I looked through all the small prints and found no sign of it, and I even emailed my contact at Rams Dee Why asked him where the clause regarding exit fees was, he emailed me back saying they went away since May 26th...

Anybody of you really think in this case the guy at Rams was sort of like what my conveyancer says, just mucking around and putting me in a ambiguous situation so my loan with them will certainly be treated as before July 1st, with their exit fees $1600/$1000/$600 still applying to my loan?

Any opinions would be appreciated.

Serena

Serena,

Why are you taking legal advice from a conveyancer?

You are entering into a contract with the bank. The terms of the agreement will be listed in the contract. If it doesn't list exit fees then there are none.

 

[Peter_Tersteeg]

Serenas as long as your loan settles after the 1st of July, there won't be any deffered establishment fees associated with it, even if they do appear in the loan documents. This is now law and there's not much any lender can do about it.

I'm not a fan of RAMS, but your conveyancer is either badly informed, or simply bagging the compeition to get your business. There's good argments for other lenders and better track records IMO, but talking about exit fees is irrelivant at this juncture.

I'd use a different conveyancer in the future.

 

[Serenas]

Thank you all

Hi Terryw, Hi all,

Greatly appreciate all your inputs, which really have helped me through my confused days--I will just send back all my signed documents to Mortgage Settlemetns Australia tomorrow or Monday, to avoid late settlement.

--I am now convinced that my conveyancer was really just going funny, which I couldn't realize more clearly, after I wasted more than half a day to listen to him by doing what he told me to do today, becuase he said "if you wanted a smooth settlement, then you have to listen to me and do what I tell you to do...."

For those who might be wondering how far my conveyancer went funny with me yesterday. He told me my insurance policy was not valid because it hadn't been paid for yet, and that the settlement would possibly be of problem, and he believed Mortgage Settlement Australia wouldn't accept my insurance policy copy anyway. He also pointed out that my Policy copy with NRMA was using the initials for my first names and my husband's so he insisted I should go back to NRMA branch to correct the names and get the copy stamped...

I went to NRMA Parramatta this morning with quite uncomfy conversations with people there, paid for two months in order to get a stamped copy (which now I am sure not really necessary anyway becasue the NRMA people almost tripple-assured me that I am indeed covered ever since June 20th while I was taking up the policy and asking the policy to be effected immediately from that day--the monthly payments have been scheduled to be paid by direct debit from their computer system, and the first double-pay payment is schedule for July 11 but I thought anyway it's not going to be much big difference if I could get it paid today anyway).

However, by anymeans, the NRMA people at Parramatta said they couldn't print out any full names (instead of initials for first names) under the insured for the policy, though I even made my effort to have talked to the branch manager...for they say their policies have always been printed out that way for 30 years, and can only be printed out that way while their computer system does have our full names recorded and registered in there...yes they stamped for me, and yes, they stated on the copy they have received my first payment of $114.05 (which is for two months out of 12 months payments)

Well, to further try out the things, on my way home from my afternoon's dental visit at Chastwood, I entered NRMA Chatwood office, and I asked for another copy of stamped policy and also said I wished they could possibly get our full names correctly printed out on the policy if possible...this time this girl seemed nice and patient but still she said the same thing they couldn't do it-they could only print out the policy with first names going initials as the assured...I thanked the girl and came back home smiling to myself, "what the hell am I doing all these? by listening to my conveyancer..."

For those who might think I was going totally a fool. It was the Mortgage Settlement Australia who told me to contact my conveyancer and said my conveyancer should be now working on behalf of me..for the reason why I didn't further contact Rams Dee Why? Well, there might be slightly last-resort chance I might still go away from Rams and go back to NAB in case Rams really did funny or tricky things to me (I wouldn't be really mind of a bit late settlement but of course nobody would like any drama with settlement)

--I actually refused Rams recommended landlord and building insurance policy which quoted me over $1k (we just went with banks choices of insurance companies in previous two purchases but this time I decided to have a go myself which proved to be to be worthwhile). After a bit shoping around I chose NRMA for $684/yr scheduled for monthly payments but the first double-payments would only be taken from direct debit next month July 11th while the Policy came into effect right immediately at the time I took the Policy on June 20th, the NRMA people from the begining assured me I would be covered. I would have no doubt but, sometimes, after you hear a different voice, especially from your conveyancer who at least in this process representing your own benefits most likely than any other parties eg the banks the MB etc, you can't just ignore totally, isn't it?

Well, I still believe up until today, all these learnings worthwhile--I also changed my landlord/building insurance company from Allianz to NRMA for another IP this time while doing landlord/building insurance shopping around, with similar amount of anual premium--both of them river flood covered (Allianz doesn't, indeed non of any other insurers or underwritters cover river flood as far as I know--would be happy to be corrected so we have more choices).

I do hope my decision of going for Rams today, will turn out to be OK, and to be time-tested as not too bad at least.--will keep giving feedbacks here if anything noteworthy.

BTW, for those who know a good conveyancer in Sydney region, recommendations would be appreciated for my next time--well, I was almost thinking to myself, this time I finally found a good conveyancer and I would have confidence to recommend to friends...

 

[DaveM]

I borrow through RAMS and my last purchase in March/April was a pretty ordinary experience. It took close to 6 weeks for approval. The branch I deal with kept pushing them and the backoffice people kept saying they were too busy and only prioritising loans for people with signed contracts.

I lost 2 good deals because of the delays.... I was actually meeting with another broker to get things back on track when they called with approval.

Next time they wont get a look in, poor service is never forgotten. Its a lot worse these days than it used to be.

 

[Serenas]

I borrow through RAMS and my last purchase in March/April was a pretty ordinary experience. It took close to 6 weeks for approval. The branch I deal with kept pushing them and the backoffice people kept saying they were too busy and only prioritising loans for people with signed contracts.

I lost 2 good deals because of the delays.... I was actually meeting with another broker to get things back on track when they called with approval.

Next time they wont get a look in, poor service is never forgotten. Its a lot worse these days than it used to be.

Hi Dave,
Did you actually go ahead and take up the loan with Rams? Guess you were right, ours was relatively speedy (yes we had signed or exchanged a sales contract probably as you said it was the reason), but not as they promised to be within a week--actually took more than 10 days or something, but they gave us an unconditional approval upon a valuation.

I still sometimes wish I had applied to CBA for maybe I wouldn't be able to build up 4 units at all but 3 or perhaps only 2 viably onto the same block of land anyway. I am now not much concerned about their Rate or exit fees, or else now, but reckon the major issue would be the fact Rams don't have any physical branch where you could go and talk to people to get payment done or withraw money out from your account in person--I am sure from time to time during our loan period with a lender we will feel like we need this function...

But well, this is my first time going with non-bank, I suppose all the non-bank lenders basically are the same thing with no brach services available to their clients?-- Anybody here been with a non-bank lender and feel like it's OK they don't have a physical branch?--Well, it sounds like I am going onto another topic: a bank or non-bank lender, advantages or disadvantages?....

 

[DaveM]

Yes I ended up going with them... it was close to 6 weeks from application for funds until conditional approval, so I could not offer on anything during that time and lost 2 good deals. Most lenders can turn around conditionals in 2-3 days. It was problem after problem after excuse after excuse. People forgetting to click buttons or to include a document already provided.

Even after I received conditional, I had to extend cooling off (was 10 days initially) to receive unconditional as they were again "too busy".

Next time (I am already on the hunt) it will be with another lender. It was the slowest I have ever seen. My last dealing with them will be to release the $30k in equity I have gained through the reno-before-renting to use as a deposit on something else. Not going to cross anything with RAMS.