Ray White is a complete waste of time

[HiEquity]

actually - just to prove a point...

To give my 2c worth - I don't know any of the research but as a buyer I reckon it's a pain in the @$%^ to not quote the price. I'm with boomer - it's a quick and easy way to find out if a vendor is dreaming or realistic and in this market that can save a lot of time and headaches for all parties.

It's not a matter of whether the agent priced it wrong - it's what it tells you about where the vendor is at.

 

[aw1]

agree - I have never gone to look at a single property that has not had a price listed.. I just keep looking elsewhere.

 

[urban cowboy]

Do you realise how stupid that sounds?

no more stupid than your ridiculous assertion that just because a price isn't on a property - that somehow translates to the agent doesn't know how to price.

What you are saying is that agents are moving to no list price so they won't get caught out overpricing the property. PLEASE.....

Noooo, reread my post - it was a general point to refute your statement about not being able to appraise - it's a stupid statement either way - whether the price is there or not has no bearing on whether the property is overpriced or not - i can show you hundreds of properties on REA with list prices that are way too high...At least this way it removes the allegation...once again - an agents job is to market and negotiate. An agent is responsible for obtaining the highest price for the vendor, one would expect that means using the best method - the research is there to prove that no list price is more effective.

So that makes it ok for an agent to buy a listing - this justifies it.

maybe in your world mate - but in mine it's illegal

We operate completely different, we don't overprice for the sake of gaining the listing, we often tell vendors (who want to ask more that our esimate) that we are not interested in their listing at that price, why would you carry a property on your books that is overpriced and needs to be reduced to meet the market - hang on - i get it - you list it for more that what it is worth - you don't advertise a price, you get a lot of low ball offers and submitt these to the vendor and then you condition the vendor into reducing their price, in the mean time you have tied the vendor up in your agency agreement to the point that it is going to cost them thousands to change.

Who said i do any of that??? be very careful before you go accusing me of anything...false accusations are dangerous territory - you don't know the first thing about me and there you go getting personal and accusing me of dishonesty?? or at least unethical behaviour?? very silly indeed.

I have already refuted most of this. As for the rest of it - I have never taken on a listing I believed to be overpriced, I ALWAYS walked away from ones where the vendor was unrealistic, I have always given a solid provable opinion of market price (and there are several people on this forum who can prove all of this - I have sold for half a dozen o so now), yes i submit low ball offers - I submit all offers...IT IS THE LAW!!!!! I do not believe in conditioning - it is unethical, I have always let people out of an agency agreement where they have asked (has happened twice in all my years in the game)...anything else?? oh what's the point...

What you are saying is that it is now longer the agents job to be concerned in esimating prices rather the agents job is to market and negoitiate

sigh...once again you are reading more into it than what i have said - i never said it was not an agents job to be concerned with price - listing the price on the net is a completely separate and unrelated issue

Buyer will pay an extra 20% - you are kidding, buyers want the property for a cheap as they can get it..

read the research mate. it's in all the industry mags and with most REI's

And its not up to the agents to dictate to the market in regards to advertising no price - its the market that dictacts.

really??? I thought it was an agents job to educate to his vendor the best methods in marketing...

and seeing as you do auctions - how do you get around that one?? or are you one of these agents who puts quote pricing on their auctions - that other method frowned upon as bait advertising and false and misleading by various consumer groups and govt bodies???

If a buyer was to call you regarding a property advertised without a price, what is the first questions they are going to ask - wait i know - WHAT IS THE PRICE?

and if you can't answer that one satisfactorily then you need to go back to marketing school...very easily handled and I haven't had a buyer complain when i explained it to them.

To me a property that has no price listed or had POA or Expressions of Interest is a property that is overpriced

.

uhuh...you just keep that opinion - the rest of us in the real world will follow the latest training, keep upto date with trends and do what works best for our vendors...it is the law after all!



I tire of this...you will hear no more from me - i have no further interest in engaging someone who resorts to personal attacks and accusations of unethical behaviour to justify their position.

goodbye.

 

[evand]

I always thought the 'buying the listing' thing was to do with how the agent got the listing from the vendor and what they say to the vendor. Nothing to do with how the property is marketed or the price in the ad.

You might be a bit misleading there UC.

And by the way. Trying to attract more enquiries to a listing by limiting the amount of info (including keeping the price a secret) just reduces the quality of leads. Sure, you might get more enquiries (which gives the vendor the illusion of agent activity - which the agents love) but they are much lower quality. Wasting the agents and vendors time.

If you supply more info in an ad (as Collector says) you might get less enquiries as the property wont suit everyone but the enquiries you get will be much higher qualified.

Its common sense and this is just another example of RE agents limited marketing ability. But everything an agents does has a reason and the reason is usually to benefit the agent first, the vendor second and the buyer third.

This is not agent bashing, just facts.

2. In this day and age of requisite agent bashing - many people believe that all agents buy listings by setting the prices high, or are incompetent of setting a proper price due to lack of knowledge. This way, the agent is able to market the property based on its features and the price does not come into it until the buyer is ready to put in an offer - the agent cannot then be accused of interfering with price issues and simply becomes a conduit for negotiation between parties - which is their property job anyway...marketing and negotiation.

 

[Perp]

Another vote for the "I don't bother looking at listings going to auction or without a price listed". So many other buyers seem to share this view, that I can't understand how market research shows this to provide the optimal outcome. (But, of course, I believe UC provides this information in good faith.)

Why, oh why, do agents continue to promote auctions to vendors, when the clearance rate in Brisbane is so low? Brisbane has never been keen on auctions. And why do so many vendors succumb to agent pressure to have one?

 

[evand]

Sydney is the same. I have seen auctions of non descript houses in non descript suburbs in a completely dead market and wonder why.

If you read the 2nd last sentence in my post above you will find the answer.

Why, oh why, do agents continue to promote auctions to vendors, when the clearance rate in Brisbane is so low? Brisbane has never been keen on auctions. And why do so many vendors succumb to agent pressure to have one?

 

[Hoffy]

Here is another vote against this ridiculous practice. When I see one advertised without a price, my immediate conclusion is that the agent is incompetent. And I don't want to deal with incompetent people, so they don't hear from me.

 

[steveadl]

An agent is responsible for obtaining the highest price for the vendor, one would expect that means using the best method - the research is there to prove that no list price is more effective.

Have to agree with UC. Whilst no price on a listing annoys me as well - it's not because the REA doesn't know the price it should be, they're just trying to get the best price for the seller.

An agent has access to all sales info, so it's not that hard to determine a price range for a property within about 5 mins of searching (not sure why anyone would think an agent couldn't determine a price quite easily unless it's a very unique property with few comparables?). As UC pointed out, if they don't put a price range on say an expected $500k house sale and two young lovebirds fall in love with it - they may well end up offering $540k because they love it. If the REA lists it at $500k, they would probably set their limit at $520k - which is the best result for the seller?

Remember, the agent is working for the seller not us the buyer. Does it suck for us SS'ers who are always looking to buy? Yes. Does it end up with a lot of pointless work enquiring about properties people have no chance of buying? Yes. But I understand why the REA's do it.

 

[vbplease]

Hang on... in qld (not sure about other states), there is a good reason there are no list prices for auctions - its been made illegal. UC, can you please confrim this? I couldn't find any links..

As far as i know its illegal due to some agents in the past under quoting listings to generate more interest, in turn dashing peoples hopes and wasting money on B+P inspections.

I agree with Steve, you should do your own research and not need to rely on a list price.

 

[THEHEATH]

If this becomes common practice hopefully they will legislate against it.

 

[boomtown]

Ok what about this.

I got yet another Ray White email this morning - this time an electronic magazine Ray White Summer Collection (or something like that) being a rather expensive self published electronic magazine which is completely useless because it has no prices.

How much are these vendors paying to be featured in that useless e-rag? I bet its not free that's for sure. And I bet Ray White makes good money out of it.

 

[Ms Jade]

...And by the way. Trying to attract more enquiries to a listing by limiting the amount of info (including keeping the price a secret) just reduces the quality of leads. Sure, you might get more enquiries (which gives the vendor the illusion of agent activity - which the agents love) but they are much lower quality. Wasting the agents and vendors time...

ITA. Why on earth a company in ANY industry would stop qualifying leads is beyond me. I can imagine agencies which laid off sales staff now having to employ more office staff to handle the resulting plethora of "How much is it?" phonecalls. That is bad business in my book. Of course, unless a property looks REALLY bad (potental bargain) I am also in the couldn't-be-bothered category. I know that the Jenman people believe in this no price caper. but I really hope it's not spreading.

 

[NOT 2 L8]

I have just spent the last few days ignoring properties advertised without sufficient info i.e. land size, address, price, etc. I do not have the time, nor the inclination to waste my time, chasing info that should be readily available. I do not think that I have missed out on any bargains because of this attitude either.

I wonder how many sales are going to be missed due to people searching the listings by using the search crirteria such as price range, minimum land size etc.

The bit about being attracted by the photos makes me laugh also. I have seen some attrocious efforts in my time. In fact I have on several occasions emailed an agent to explain why they should give their client a massive discount for bodging the advertising........but that is another subject.

I would say that the consensus here is that people want to know the price and as much info as is possible so I fear that the "new" era of no price advertising will come unstuck.

Thats mine and we are all entitled.

Cheers.

Chrisv.

 

[BayView]

Yep, much of the "no price" ads are about hoping to promote enquiries, from which the agent can build a client (buyer) database.

Same goes for "open for inspenspections".

It's all about future leads and maybe sell your place in the meantime.

You know the one; the list of clients who are the "buyers who are already waiting" when the agent comes around to give you their sales pitch for your listing.

 

[Novar]

I don't bother either - no price- no interest
And put the flaming address as well -or at least the suburb.

So much for company research. Agents wouldn't have a clue, they are so commission motivated! And just because we don't tell you the full story doesn't make us 'lairs' - just smart, cause it's none of the agents business!

Feel sorry for first home buyers and the inexperienced!

 

[Novar]

And I agree Ray White are the pits!
They must be pulling the everything to auction stunt all over Australia. It's the latest here as well. 10/12 properties up for auction at a flash hotel, SMALL room full of people (who are mostly next months homeowner auction mugs there for a look ) ..sales people running around the crowd between buyer and seller trying to get the price up ... doesn't move, then they say " that property is continuing to be negotiated ... On to the next property" ...

What the ... used to be passed in
Aren't they lucky we're all idiots! NOT

 

[Perp]

If it's true that this "no price" marketing leads to a higher selling price, I'm wondering why, given how many of us are p***ed off by it. I'm wondering if it's because home-owners are far more likely to pay top price for a property, having formed an emotional attachment to it, and prospective owner-occupiers are precisely the type of buyer who'll bother to chase the agent if the property looks like it might fit their (usually very specific) criteria. So this form of marketing effectively weeds out the investors, who'll just move on to another property where they can find out more information.

To test this theory, I'm wondering if the "no price" marketing style is supposed to also result in a higher selling price in the commercial property market, where the vast majority view properties as a commercial proposition.

UC and other agents, do you have a view as to whether this style of marketing is as widely used and/or considered as effective in the commercial arena?

 

[Peter Parker]

And I agree Ray White are the pits!
They must be pulling the everything to auction stunt all over Australia. It's the latest here as well. 10/12 properties up for auction at a flash hotel, SMALL room full of people (who are mostly next months homeowner auction mugs there for a look ) ..sales people running around the crowd between buyer and seller trying to get the price up ... doesn't move, then they say " that property is continuing to be negotiated ... On to the next property" ...

Look at it this way.

Instead of the auctioneer/agents going from house to house, having several hours 'dead time' between auctions and waiting around for the open for inspections to finish, this way they can do several weekend's work in a couple of hours.

Plus they keep the buyers in the dark; if only a few people turn up to a normal on-site auction then it's doesn't look like many are interested and the house might go for a song. Plus you'll often meet the neighbours and can talk to them about the area.

But if there's 50 people seated you have no idea how many are interested in the property you want and you can't meet the neighbours as they won't be there.

So it's even worse than regular auctions for the buyer but cunning for the agent and auctioneer - you come to them - not they come to you (or the property).

Most people here will tut-tut about all this and the evil agents.

But imperfect markets are a godsend to the prepared investor, and the property market being so much less perfect than the sharemarket increases the scope for profit through property compared to shares.

Even better, agents seem to be doing their best to make markets even less perfect by concealing information (in the hope it will force enquiries, and thus harvest leads)

 

[sparky23]

This is a very interesting discussion.

I think in this day and age many people like to do their own research from home and expect to have all of the information they require at their fingertips with the price being the most important piece of info unless they have unlimited funds.

As an investor if someone is trying to research multiple properties it can be very frustrating when info is missing as an email requesting more information is rarely answered, if you call the office the person you need to speak to is usually out and if you multiply this by say 20 property enquiries thats a lot of time and money on phone calls that you have wasted. Much more efficient use of time to follow up on properties that at least give you some indication of price.

I think it would be a good idea for someone to run a poll and see if anyone likes to see properties advertised without prices!

 

[Gee Cee]

Properties and cars

I buy property all the time and also new cars.
When i go to buy a new car ALL I WANT TO KNOW is the cost out of my wallet.
Some dealers go on with so much crap and cannot give you a changeover price; unless you give a deposit first
I just shake my head and walk away.

I do not have time to play all the latest agents games either.

So if a price is not listed I walk away.

If I do attend a auction i offer a silly price. Yep the agent hounds me all month trying to talk up the offer. Whilst at the same time de-morilising & conditioning his vendor.
If I get it at a good price I buy.
Otherwise i just keep looking.

But there is no way i would list any of my properties to sell through these agents