Regret and Hindsight

[Newbieatlife]

I'm not sure if anyone is in the same boat?

I started my property investment journey in 2009 and have done quite well for myself over the years; mainly off the back of a very stagnant market.

As a self confessed property 'addict', I'd spend countless hours each day nitpicking at deals and developing quite a high expectation on what constitutes a good deal for me and what isn't

As an avid cashflow chaser, I remember not pursuing quite a few properties a few years ago, particularly in the Sydney market, that would have netted me an extra 1.5 - 2 mil today in equity over what now seems like extremely trivial reasons

Today is a different story - I barely even look at property anymore and have more or less 'switched off'. I had a few buys earlier this year but other than that, has been extremely slow due to my set high expectations of a good property and of course, a rising market

Coupled with the fact that I have very high expectations of myself and extremely goal oriented, I am starting to feel a lot of negativity that my progress has come to a halt. I feel the 'good old days' are over and keep being reminded of all those deals I had passed on and where I would be now if I had just been a little more aggressive and less risk adverse.

I would like some insight, probably from some of the more experienced investors on whether they had or have felt similar in a rising market, how to cope/overcome in what is seemingly a very first world problem. Any advice/discussion would be much appreciated.

 

[strongy1986]

I'm not sure if anyone is in the same boat?

I started my property investment journey in 2009 and have done quite well for myself over the years; mainly off the back of a very stagnant market.

As a self confessed property 'addict', I'd spend countless hours each day nitpicking at deals and developing quite a high expectation on what constitutes a good deal for me and what isn't

As an avid cashflow chaser, I remember not pursuing quite a few properties a few years ago, particularly in the Sydney market, that would have netted me an extra 1.5 - 2 mil today in equity over what now seems like extremely trivial reasons

Today is a different story - I barely even look at property anymore and have more or less 'switched off'. I had a few buys earlier this year but other than that, has been extremely slow due to my set high expectations of a good property and of course, a rising market

Coupled with the fact that I have very high expectations of myself and extremely goal oriented, I am starting to feel a lot of negativity that my progress has come to a halt. I feel the 'good old days' are over and keep being reminded of all those deals I had passed on and where I would be now if I had just been a little more aggressive and less risk adverse.

I would like some insight, probably from some of the more experienced investors on whether they had or have felt similar in a rising market, how to cope/overcome in what is seemingly a very first world problem. Any advice/discussion would be much appreciated.

Just guessing here but it looks like your a Sydney centric investor
There are other places in Australia. They might not be as big cities and have the same drivers as Sydney but there are still plenty of bargains to be had. Lay your eyes over some new markets and your regrets will be gone

On the cash flow thing- I think chasing purely cash flow is a bit pointless, not many people have the passion or a partner who is willing to let them manage or worry about 20 properties
I see many people on here raving about a place like Logan- sure it's had some growth and it's good yield but I think in hindsight many people (if they were able to service) will regret not buying the 450k house with the lower yield in your wynnum, carina, mt gravatt areas. Mainly because they were obsessed with the extra two yield points

 

[Newbieatlife]

Just guessing here but it looks like your a Sydney centric investor
There are other places in Australia. They might not be as big cities and have the same drivers as Sydney but there are still plenty of bargains to be had. Lay your eyes over some new markets and your regrets will be gone

On the cash flow thing- I think chasing purely cash flow is a bit pointless, not many people have the passion or a partner who is willing to let them manage or worry about 20 properties
I see many people on here raving about a place like Logan- sure it's had some growth and it's good yield but I think in hindsight many people (if they were able to service) will regret not buying the 450k house with the lower yield in your wynnum, carina, mt gravatt areas. Mainly because they were obsessed with the extra two yield points

Most of my properties are in Brisbane in the Logan area and Redcliffe peninsula....I remember there was a lot of debate a few years ago which way Sydney was headed and after being stagnant for so many years, even then the Sydney market seemed expensive at the time.

I originally (and still) only had a standard PAYG income so having cashflow was key for me to grow a sizeable portfolio if I wanted to leverage...I also found cheaper areas were easier to grab a bargain and access insta-equity

Good point about looking in new cities...I guess I have been stuck in such a routine over the years and know the agents in my areas so well that its hard to escape old habits

 

[strongy1986]

I think redcliffe is a good area to invest in

Pretty much the only beaches near Brisbane. No land supply at all - good natural boundaries

 

[strongy1986]

The only reason I bash Logan so much is because there always is going to be cheaper areas in a city. To me Logan doesn't really have the location to lift itself off that bottom rung
A good area in Brisbane only costs you 500

The same thing in melbourne would be 1.5 mill
The bad areas in melbourne are still 300k

 

[baby blue eyes]

All the chatter for a while has been Brisbane, I am sure your properties will lift there too. I invested in Sydney similar times to you and the equity increase has been great, very happy with it. However, hindsight makes me look smart, when other people were cautioning against the sydney market who did not have a clue. I also went for cashflow properties, none were undervalue and I paid a fair price.

I am sure you will see the increases this time around in Brisbane and you will be smiling more by the end of 2015.

 

[MTR]

I'm not sure if anyone is in the same boat?

I started my property investment journey in 2009 and have done quite well for myself over the years; mainly off the back of a very stagnant market.

As a self confessed property 'addict', I'd spend countless hours each day nitpicking at deals and developing quite a high expectation on what constitutes a good deal for me and what isn't

As an avid cashflow chaser, I remember not pursuing quite a few properties a few years ago, particularly in the Sydney market, that would have netted me an extra 1.5 - 2 mil today in equity over what now seems like extremely trivial reasons

Today is a different story - I barely even look at property anymore and have more or less 'switched off'. I had a few buys earlier this year but other than that, has been extremely slow due to my set high expectations of a good property and of course, a rising market

Coupled with the fact that I have very high expectations of myself and extremely goal oriented, I am starting to feel a lot of negativity that my progress has come to a halt. I feel the 'good old days' are over and keep being reminded of all those deals I had passed on and where I would be now if I had just been a little more aggressive and less risk adverse.

I would like some insight, probably from some of the more experienced investors on whether they had or have felt similar in a rising market, how to cope/overcome in what is seemingly a very first world problem. Any advice/discussion would be much appreciated.

The negativity is coming from you looking at what you have achieved and comparing it to what you COULD HAVE ACHIEVED. You appear to now be reassessing your strategy.. right? as you were driven by cash flow, therefore you ignored the Sydney rising market where the boom was happening , so you have learnt something right?

However, you stated that you have done very well, so what is the problem?
Why are you looking at the what if s...... rather than what you actually have achieved, I would think this is the most important factor and ultimately the way to success.

One of the biggest tips in property investing is to stay positive and focused and just keep learning, give yourself credit for what you have achieved. The more you learn the more you know the better the outcome, its the only way forward IMO.

MTR

 

[Dolly]

Same here but worse. Cairns. Worse again I sold Sydney to Buy Cairns. So know others out there feeling more stupid and with more regret The trigger for me was my property in Sydney needed urgent work for the next tenants and I could not afford it. I should have refinanced the house to access equity instead of selling it. So for lack of $13,000 I am down ?? scary amount. All emotionally driven decisions in my case. Brain asleep on the job.

On a very fragile recovery now so fingers crossed. Cairns has international airport, university, hospital so seemed to tick boxes but has high costs. That was my other error as I was shocked with the rates when I should have know beforehand they are higher than Sydney. Then insurance. Then small town mentality holds it back. So hopefully others learn and we do as well. Onwards and upwards.

 

[Biz]

Same here but worse. Cairns. Worse again I sold Sydney to Buy Cairns. So know others out there feeling more stupid and with more regret The trigger for me was my property in Sydney needed urgent work for the next tenants and I could not afford it. I should have refinanced the house to access equity instead of selling it. So for lack of $13,000 I am down ?? scary amount. All emotionally driven decisions in my case. Brain asleep on the job.

On a very fragile recovery now so fingers crossed. Cairns has international airport, university, hospital so seemed to tick boxes but has high costs. That was my other error as I was shocked with the rates when I should have know beforehand they are higher than Sydney. Then insurance. Then small town mentality holds it back. So hopefully others learn and we do as well. Onwards and upwards.

Almost made that mistake, was going to buy a couple of "good" properties in Cairns instead of a terrace house inner Sydney almost 10 years ago. Very glad i made the right choice!

 

[Dolly]

Almost made that mistake, was going to buy a couple of "good" properties in Cairns instead of a terrace house inner Sydney almost 10 years ago. Very glad i made the right choice!

Sadly not my first mistake. I sold an apartment in North Sydney way back when for $70,000 and thought I was the bees knees. So told myself not to sell anymore but in Cairns that may have been mistake again. lol

 

[Propertunity]

...I feel the 'good old days' are over and keep being reminded of all those deals I had passed on and where I would be now if I had.......

THESE are the good old days. I think Carly Simon had a song with those lyrics many years ago.

It is quite wrong thinking to suggest that some time ago was better than now. Remember, people are entering the market right now for the very first time. They are buying at 2014 prices and looking forward to what their growth will be like in years to come. They are finding good opportunities in the current market, while at the same time, you are not.

It is not the market, it's YOU.

You can't move forward while looking in the rear vision mirror!

 

[jpcashflow]

Hi

Hi,

Many investor or people in general feel that the good old days are over

In the past BTW I am only 30... property growth was strong and investing was quiet easy because of the boom we all experienced.

Sure times are different but there are still opportunities to grow and make some coin at the same time .

My strategy has changed, I now go for properties where we can develop and make a profit within a year.

Also when I buy a property to hold I ensure that I have a big deposit....

If you need some inspiration we have a thread called what you have achieved this year, have a look all the comments have been positive

 

[Lollie]

Well said Prop, turn your focus to Sydney and get in before the next wave. For quality units in popular Sydney suburbs such as Coogee there is constant pressure on both rents and capital growth meaning there are still increases in an ordinary year. Then as you know, long term hold delivers massive growth in boom times. Be happy and proud of what you've already achieved in QLD. Then keep moving into better stuff. I'll never forget the terrible feeling of having my equity stuck in a small country town in 2001 while Sydney was booming. It took me many years to turn that around and it was worth it. I've experienced very good growth on my units in Sydney.

 

[Newbieatlife]

The negativity is coming from you looking at what you have achieved and comparing it to what you COULD HAVE ACHIEVED. You appear to now be reassessing your strategy.. right? as you were driven by cash flow, therefore you ignored the Sydney rising market where the boom was happening , so you have learnt something right?

However, you stated that you have done very well, so what is the problem?
Why are you looking at the what if s...... rather than what you actually have achieved, I would think this is the most important factor and ultimately the way to success.

One of the biggest tips in property investing is to stay positive and focused and just keep learning, give yourself credit for what you have achieved. The more you learn the more you know the better the outcome, its the only way forward IMO.

MTR

This sums it up nicely, thank you

I feel I could have achieved much more in a great time we'll probably not see again for a very long time....and i'm so used to astonishing returns that just aren't possible today anymore........that plus a lack of progress has become very demotivating....I had changed my strategy to be more development focused, but have failed to pull the trigger on anything as the risk is far greater than purely looking at numbers. I need to change my expectation level and mindset as well.

I think I should reflect on my wins over the past 5 years, reassess and restrategise for 2015...could probably do with some remotivation as well - maybe a small reward?

Cheers

 

[Emma171]

Echoing MTR. You make/made the choices you did with the variables at the time I am sure. You will definitely have done infinitely better than the average bear!

Reward? Maybe try a vacation to a place you wouldn't mind investing in? I go places just to prove to myself I SHOULDN'T invest there, get a tan and often come away highly motivated. God knows how many projects I looked at in Thailand and never bought there - but it was exciting to window shop.

On the plus side, if the risk was too high on some projects maybe the glass is half full not empty - imagine if you had done a really, really bad development? Sometimes NOT buying is better than buying badly. Something will leap and get you re-motivated. I believe property is an addiction no one can cure?. it will suck you back in

Walk to the beat of your own drum.

 

[LeoT]

First of all well done for still doing quite well in a stagnant market, as you mention.

The issue is twofold in my opinion.

1. MIndset issues (very evident)
2. Goal conflict (need to reassess your goals and your understanding of building wealth.

Im just being totally honest. Its easy to just say "oh well i still did well" and leave it at that. Thats what very mediocre ppl do. If you want to take it to the next level, be harsh and critical on your progress/goals/results and reassess plans/strategy/approach. This is my opinion. If you address those two issues I suspect it will have massive benefit for you. Also further mindset development is crucial (as im sure you can see the effects it can have on you). Regardless well done!


Leo

 

[JDP1]

my property regret:
Several years back, I was sitting in a restaurant. A pretty waitress came over and served me a fine glass of red. I was so impressed with the beauty of the waitress and the wine that I almost instantly I made a snap decision to drop big bucks on an apartment in Melbourne CBD. ( yes, true story)
Fast forward several years later, I look out the window and find a 45++story apartment block in my face across the road, almost completely taking away my city views. I soon learn that there are more than 5000 approved and more in the pipeline -all within walking distance.
I decided to sell it asap, languished on the market for months and found only one buyer who, you guessed it, knew that he was the only game in town and low balled the offer. I had to cut my losses and accepted it before the thousands of others were constructed.

Lessen learnt:
1. Alcohol and pretty women have for centuries been the downfall of many a man, and will do so for many centuries in the future. However, this isn't going to deter me from these pursuits any less
2. Always keep an eye on whats happening in the market. If I had done so, I could have sold before the approvals when the market was strong. I left it too late - I though it would be a set n forget investment (and thus don't need to monitor the market)- wrong!!
3. Ask the professionals if more info is needed- they can tell you whats going to happen in the market or whats likely.
4. Don't be afraid to cut n run- if you think your money will serve you better elsewhere, then do what it takes (which is eventually what I did, as painful as it was). know when to hold them and ride it out vs when to fold em. It takes wisdom, knowledge and guts to make this call.

Fortunately, the next real estate purchase has been doing much better and still is, and has much better supply-demand metrics.

 

[Redom]

my property regret:
Several years back, I was sitting in a restaurant. A pretty waitress came over and served me a fine glass of red. I was so impressed with the beauty of the waitress and the wine that I almost instantly I made a snap decision to drop big bucks on an apartment in Melbourne CBD. ( yes, true story)
Fast forward several years later, I look out the window and find a 45++story apartment block in my face across the road, almost completely taking away my city views. I soon learn that there are more than 5000 approved and more in the pipeline -all within walking distance.
I decided to sell it asap, languished on the market for months and found only one buyer who, you guessed it, knew that he was the only game in town and low balled the offer. I had to cut my losses and accepted it before the thousands of others were constructed.

Lessen learnt:
1. Alcohol and pretty women have for centuries been the downfall of many a man, and will do so for many centuries in the future. However, this isn't going to deter me from these pursuits any less
2. Always keep an eye on whats happening in the market. If I had done so, I could have sold before the approvals when the market was strong. I left it too late - I though it would be a set n forget investment (and thus don't need to monitor the market)- wrong!!
3. Ask the professionals if more info is needed- they can tell you whats going to happen in the market or whats likely.
4. Don't be afraid to cut n run- if you think your money will serve you better elsewhere, then do what it takes (which is eventually what I did, as painful as it was). know when to hold them and ride it out vs when to fold em. It takes wisdom, knowledge and guts to make this call.

Fortunately, the next real estate purchase has been doing much better and still is, and has much better supply-demand metrics.

Sounds like some solid lessons learnt, thanks for sharing! Seems like that experience made you a winner on your next one though!

Perhaps adjust no 1 to:
1. Pretty women don't need to be a mans downfall. Next time a pretty waitress makes your jaws drop, flirt, buy some flowers (etc etc) and ask her out. Much cheaper and more likely to be effective than purchasing property!