Selling Privately

[andrew_de_a]

I only have a chip on my shoulder when it comes to RE agents as i've been burnt too many times. And that's not including the times they've attempted and i've known what thetre up to.

I'd say i'm a member of a vast majority on this one. Maybe thats why RE agents come at the bottom (or near to) of every ethical survey i've ever seen.

Used car sales guys are usually at the bottom, imagine if they carried on like RE agents about their industry.

Also, of course plenty of people change careers, sure. But they don't make out that its some sort of high art that people cant do themselves. That's the difference.

just out of curiosity, what is it that you do for a living?

 

[urban cowboy]

I only have a chip on my shoulder when it comes to RE agents as i've been burnt too many times.

gee evand - how did i know you'd respond to that...

I don't doubt you've been burnt etc. and i am sorry that you have been - but my issue is your constant bagging of all agents as opposed to the ones that have hurt you!

you don't know me from a bar of soap yet you still hold this opinion of me as a lowlife scum simply because my chosen profession is as an agent...and apparently that means i am someone who is out to burn people, focus on turnover and condition everyone so i can make millions whilst ripping people off.

I'd say i'm a member of a vast majority on this one.

uhuh...there is that famous sweeping generalisation again...

Also, of course plenty of people change careers, sure. But they don't make out that its some sort of high art that people cant do themselves. That's the difference.

perhaps - but i bet if you did a survey of the agents on this site - and there are a lot of us now, that we are almost all fully licenced as opposed to just salespeople, we all have a good reputation in the industry and our results speak for themselves. We continually go on courses and seminars to improve our abilities in service quality and marketing and contract law and we live and breath client service knowing that by looking after both sides of the transaction to the best of our ability, we will pick up more business on referal from our past clients - both buyers and sellers.


but of course, nothing i can say will ever persuade you otherwise because i am a dodgy lying agent out to screw you over.

 

[BV]

and apparently that means i am someone who is out to burn people, focus on turnover and condition everyone so i can make millions whilst ripping people off.

UC

Some property investors don't value highly REA's because they have bought and sold properties and didn't always have a positive experience.

We also have issues with property managers so there are multiple reasons why a property investor would hold such a biased opinion.

As a buyer I have been tricked once or twice but I don't bag all agents for it.
Inctead I chose not to deal with those particular agents again.

As a seller I found that by going to open houses and meeting the sales consultants is a very good way to decide who you want to list your property with.

cheers

 

[evand]

I never bagged particular agents ever....please dont put words in my mouth.....my problem is how the RE industry operates. Agents are only conforming to how the industry operates when they enter it.

Thats why just about all salespeople have the bxact same stock answers to questions, and why all property is sold the exact same way with the exact same tricks being used pretty much all the time.

Also, thats why the RE industry loves outsiders (hence my point about most agents being panel beaters last week for eg). They can teach them how the industry works easily.

There is no such thing as a few cowboy agents. Its the industry and i've said this over and over in my anti RE postings.

gee evand - how did i know you'd respond to that...

I don't doubt you've been burnt etc. and i am sorry that you have been - but my issue is your constant bagging of all agents as opposed to the ones that have hurt you!

you don't know me from a bar of soap yet you still hold this opinion of me as a lowlife scum simply because my chosen profession is as an agent...and apparently that means i am someone who is out to burn people, focus on turnover and condition everyone so i can make millions whilst ripping people off.

perhaps - but i bet if you did a survey of the agents on this site - and there are a lot of us now, that we are almost all fully licenced as opposed to just salespeople, we all have a good reputation in the industry and our results speak for themselves. We continually go on courses and seminars to improve our abilities in service quality and marketing and contract law and we live and breath client service knowing that by looking after both sides of the transaction to the best of our ability, we will pick up more business on referal from our past clients - both buyers and sellers.


but of course, nothing i can say will ever persuade you otherwise because i am a dodgy lying agent out to screw you over.

 

[evand]

That doesnt help you much. They will just tell you what you want to hear. They are "sales people" remember.

UC

As a seller I found that by going to open houses and meeting the sales consultants is a very good way to decide who you want to list your property with.

cheers

 

[Kevin Hockey]

just out of curiosity, what is it that you do for a living?

Thanks for your answers on the other statements Evand.

What about this one? I'm curious too.

Kev
Kevin Hockey Business Solutions

 

[evand]

Oops...missed that one. I cant see the relevance to the thread but ok.

I started out as a self employed sparkie and a van and built it into a substantial electrical/comms & data cabling/computer networking business, which i sold a few years ago with government and commercial contracts in place.

Since then i have been in "retirement" but i do a bit of small business marketing consulting when i feel like it. I also market info products and do a bit of online stuff.

I live on my property, share investments/trades and cash, have zero debt (beside positive geared IP debt).

I surf, ride my bike, travel, get involved with my kids stuff, do lunch/coffee whenever i feel like it.....life's great.

Here's a tip. Early retirement can send you a bit stir crazy. I love the challenge of business so i'm looking for suitable business opportunities as i type. Or maybe just start another one up.

btw: I bought my first IP circa 1989 in my mid 20s and have been investing since. I did some minor developments in the 90s (dual occ/subdivide/duplex stuff) in Sydney's west but found that was too much effort for the money.

Thanks for your answers on the other statements Evand.

What about this one? I'm curious too.

Kev
Kevin Hockey Business Solutions

 

[BV]

That doesnt help you much. They will just tell you what you want to hear. They are "sales people" remember.

Evand

It does help me actually because I am checking their performance as a buyer.
This is how I decide if a person is a good salesman or not.
I also take their card so I can contact them direct when I want to sell...

Over time you will come to realise which agent is good to buy from (1 which is negotiable and has more realistic pricing) and which 1 you should be selling with (well positioned signage, professional attitude, good presentation, a good sales pitch followed up with a phone call etc).

And that's by only going to open houses and comparing properties and prices.

cheers

 

[evand]

They will still tell you what just you want to hear. That's why salespeople ask so many questions. they are finding out what you want to hear. LOL

Evand

It does help me actually because I am checking their performance as a buyer.

 

[Kevin Hockey]

Evand - Have you ever been on this forum under another name?

Kev
Kevin Hockey Business solutions

 

[evand]

no and whats the relevance of this to the thread?

how bout you email me a questionnaire...

Evand - Have you ever been on this forum under another name?

Kev
Kevin Hockey Business solutions

 

[andrew_de_a]

I started out as a self employed sparkie and a van and built it into a substantial electrical/comms & data cabling/computer networking business, which i sold a few years ago with government and commercial contracts in place.
.

wow a tradie, isnt there are saying about a kettle and pot.....

 

[BV]

They will still tell you what just you want to hear. That's why salespeople ask so many questions. they are finding out what you want to hear. LOL

naah mate
you are in control and you only tell them what you want them to hear
It works for me but feel free to use your own method

 

[kooki]

Many buyers think their house is worth more than the market thinks it is worth. So you may find you are aiming too high and become stale.

I think you meant sellers, not buyers...

I agree, many do. Do you? If not, and you are able to price the property correctly, what makes you uniquely different from those thousends that have sold their properties privately?

How many properties on the market with agents are over priced? Would you agree it's a significant number? Or is it only the "clueless" private sellers (and according to your logic most private sellers are clueless) that get greedy?

You keep going on about others, but I'm talking to you guys here and I am assuming that most here are sensible and reasonably knowledgeable. I fully expect that agents will try and shake any private sellers confidence and that's fine, it is part of their job. But there is no logical reason that if a seller prices, presents and adequately advertises their property that they can't sell their property and save them selves many thousands of dollars.

The problem is that many private sellers don't give themselves the same chances to sell a property as they would give an agent. Often they give up to early, don't properly advertise, don't allow or plan for a reasonable campaign time frame and go into it on the basis of "I'll give it a little go and if I don't sell it virtually immediately I'll go to an agent". It's a self defeating attitude. The agent then says "see, told you it doesn't work" and has successfully made another (sheepish) industry client.

Has every one here sold their property almost immediately with an agent? Or isn't it the case that more often than not it takes a lot longer than you where hoping for to get an offer. And when you do, it's usually lower than hoped for (you simply have to listen to the market, says the earnest agent)? Be honest with yourself, it's often the case is it not? But do you condemn it as a failure of the agency system? No! You try and rationalise it (with the helpful suggestions of your trusted agent) as market forces, conditions, location, presentation etc etc etc. Yet if the same thing happens to someone selling privately you loudly cite it as evidence that selling privately clearly doesn't work. Why?

I can tell you why... in a single word: Conditioning.

 

[wylie]

I think you meant sellers, not buyers...

Oops, yes of course I meant vendors, not buyers.

I agree, many do. Do you? If not, and you are able to price the property correctly, what makes you uniquely different from those thousends that have sold their properties privately?

No, I don't. In fact, having had a mother who sold real estate, I tend to under estimate what my values are because I would rather have a nice surprise at the end rather than a mad scramble to find more money to fund whatever it is I am wanting to buy. I never said I was unique, either. How about not making up things you think I have said.

How many properties on the market with agents are over priced? Would you agree it's a significant number? Or is it only the "clueless" private sellers (and according to your logic most private sellers are clueless) that get greedy?

"Clueless" is your word, not mine. Please don't put words in my mouth .

Interestingly, my mother chose an agent to market and sell her own home. She knew this particular agent would negotiate and get her a good price.

And most people would not put their heads in an oven, just because someone told them to, or "conditioned" them to do so.

 

[kooki]

Interestingly, my mother chose an agent to market and sell her own home. She knew this particular agent would negotiate and get her a good price.

And most people would not put their heads in an oven, just because someone told them to, or "conditioned" them to do so.

Sorry, I wasn't quoting your words, just the general gist. I am really not out to flame, but sometimes if dearly held beliefs are challenged then it may come across as impertinent and hostile. It is not my intention to belittle or attack vendors, but I will vigorously debate any industry "professionals" who in turn are vigorously defending their patch and livelihood.

No, they wouldn't put their head in the oven. But have you ever heard of Jones Town? I think we can both quote extreme and irrelevant scenarios. I'm talking about subtle conditioning over a long time. Also you mustn't forget that most who operate in the industry have well tried and proven mechanisms for rationalising their MO's in order to sleep at night. If you as an agent actually believe your own spiel (and it does make it easier if you do) it would be very unreasonable to then not apply that "wisdom" to yourself. But this approach is faith based.

Please remember that I mentioned the word logic. My argument is that there is no logical reason you aren't able to successfully (on all counts) sell your property privately as long as you do your homework
properly. Is that concept really and truly to far fetched? Is it illogical? Is it entirely unproven? "You" keep trying to tell me that you wont do your homework properly therefore selling privately generally "doesn't work". It's a self fulfilling prophecy. If you say you can't, you wont!

I understand that many people will resist the idea for all sorts of personal reasons. I did as well. But you simply can not dismiss it as "it doesn't work" based on logic.

 

[andrew_de_a]

I dont think people have dismissed it and have said it doesnt work, we are simply saying that it is not as easy as you may believe, particularly in these tough conditions.

 

[kooki]

I dont think people have dismissed it and have said it doesnt work, we are simply saying that it is not as easy as you may believe, particularly in these tough conditions.

Ok, now that we can dismiss the flat "it doesn't work" argument, can you tell me how the conditions have any bearing on selling yourself, IF you do it properly?

By properly I mean: Price it correctly, be prepared to provide a sensible advertising budget to allow for effective marketing campaign, present the property in the best possible condition, and be prepared for a longer campaign due to the current tough conditions (as time on the market has gone up across the board).

 

[Kevin Hockey]

Ok, now that we can dismiss the flat "it doesn't work" argument, can you tell me how the conditions have any bearing on selling yourself, IF you do it properly?

By properly I mean: Price it correctly, be prepared to provide a sensible advertising budget to allow for effective marketing campaign, present the property in the best possible condition, and be prepared for a longer campaign due to the current tough conditions (as time on the market has gone up across the board).

I don't mind a seller trying to sell privately first up, one of two things will happen. They'll sell it, and good luck to them if they do, or as is the majority of cases they will end up with an agent and they will be better educated to the market.

However, you mentioned "Price it correctly" and this is where I do have an issue. If a seller has every intention of selling privately then they shouldn't involve an agent in their process. Calling out a bunch of salespeople to do an appraisal under the disguise of leading them to believe they will get a property to sell is wrong.

This thread though is a waste of an argument. Private sales are such a limited level of the market it has no overall bearing on real estate agents. Aussies don't and won't sell privately in mass numbers.

Kev

 

[andrew_de_a]

Ok, now that we can dismiss the flat "it doesn't work" argument, can you tell me how the conditions have any bearing on selling yourself, IF you do it properly?

By properly I mean: Price it correctly, be prepared to provide a sensible advertising budget to allow for effective marketing campaign, present the property in the best possible condition, and be prepared for a longer campaign due to the current tough conditions (as time on the market has gone up across the board).

ok you have proven your point, if you do it 'properly' then you will have no trouble.

keep us posted