seven years in property investing

I just read a thread from Monsoon titled "2009 goals Looking Good" and I am encouraged to see the enthusiasm for RE investment. I too believe in celebrating each rung up the ladder.

But why do I rarely see anyone celebrating their goals accomplished in the later years of property investment? Is it because the thrill has worn off by then, or is it that the investment has been a dud?
I mean, surely the purchase of a property is just the beginning, and is actually a step into the largely unknown. Yes celebrate the first step, but wouldn't there be much more reason to celebrate about 7 years later.

In the spirit of celebrating goals after 7 years, I want to tell you that I have managed (through a combination of luck, hard yakka, and waiting) to achieve the following:

1. Learn a great deal about buying, developing and selling through doing five different projects part time.

2. Learnt that banks exist to help themselves, but with care, they can help me too.

3. Increased my net worth by about 400%.

4. Attained positive gearing to the tune of about $20k per annum.

5. Learned what leverage can do for me (and do to me too)

6. Managed to curb a desire to take wild risks with my money.

So that is my little celebration. I am absolutely certain that many of my somersofter colleagues have done alot lot better over the past 7 years, and I hope you have.:)
 
Congrats, Giddo,

Haven't seen you around fot a while? You onto another project yet? Plenty happening up in the Surat Basin I hear?

Talking about 7's, is it a coincidence that that was your 700th post?? :D

RS
 
Hi Rockstar,

Thats me all over, I didn't even notice that I have done 700 posts.
I havn't been around lately, been "busy" travelling. We are doing the 'Big Loop" around the back paddock.

I am still retaining most of my RE though, just not doing anything new right now.

Thanks for asking. You seem to going onward and upward!
Cheers:)
 
Giddo:
But why do I rarely see anyone celebrating their goals accomplished in the later years of property investment? Is it because the thrill has worn off by then, or is it that the investment has been a dud?
I mean, surely the purchase of a property is just the beginning, and is actually a step into the largely unknown. Yes celebrate the first step, but wouldn't there be much more reason to celebrate about 7 years later.

Actually we are 7 years-ish in the game too.

The joy, the excitement, the learning the putting into practise and sheer fun has not diminished, if anything I am a little more focussed, knowing, confident and definitely making better choices and doing a better reasoning process-> (in my head).

I am so chuffed about us, the journey, the people, the property, how well we do stuff, my heart skips a beat at times.

Now that may well be a cardiac abnormality, but I thought it was just sheer joy and fun.

It's all I can do but skip. That is honestly how I feel, and obviously why I'm a little more inclined to keep to myself, but you did raise the point.:p

From my personal perspective investing has not been mutually exclusive to passion/giving/sharing/enjoyment for life either, that is ingrained within me. I love what life has to offer.

I could not explain what it is I have learnt the last 7 years, it has been like one door opening to find yourself in an amazing learning factory.

I may not post or be particularly expressive about what I am feeling toward life or property investing, but the feeling is the dog with the head hanging out the window of a car moving, wind blowing in their face and drool slobbering down the jaw.

That's me.:D

An abundance of everything.
 
But why do I rarely see anyone celebrating their goals accomplished in the later years of property investment? Is it because the thrill has worn off by then, or is it that the investment has been a dud?

Hi Giddo

This game we play is all about numbers. No other metric makes sense or is concrete enough for me. In order to be able to celebrate publicly and for it to make real sense to people we have to be prepared to say "From this base I made $x over 7 years and now earn a net income of $y from our investments". Anything else (to me) is just fluffy stuff (which has its own value OO - don't get me wrong! I enjoy that side of it but it doesn't compare to the real results, which can only be measured with the numbers).

Herein lies the problem - you can put out there some real numbers but in so doing:
1 - You are aware that some have done so much better in the intervening time so your effort can look quite paltry in comparison.
2 - The amount you made may actually look like an absolute shedload to others who will be asking "why haven't you retired yet you rich landlord you?". One persons retirement lump sum is just another day at the office for others... and that's life!
3 - You are aware that others who have shared some of their $$ story get set upon by a certain part of the forum, which hardly encourages using numbers in a public manner. TPS is alive and well despite the protestations!
4 - You know that using numbers could be seen as trying to make you look better than someone else (numbers bring out this reality in a rather stark manner) and we all know that nobody is any better than anyone else! :rolleyes:

So instead we get symbols, motherhood statements such as "I'm doing really well" etc and our collective learning remains significantly restricted from what it could be. If you can work out a solution to this problem then please do share! :)
 
This game we play is all about numbers. No other metric makes sense or is concrete enough for me. In order to be able to celebrate publicly and for it to make real sense to people we have to be prepared to say "From this base I made $x over 7 years and now earn a net income of $y from our investments".

Well put HE.

The other issue I find is that your "achievements" in property are usually not able to be isolated from other factors in your life.

For instance, I believe your earned (or business) income levels can play a huge part in things such as "attaining a net income of $x from property"

So a property income of $20k pa in 7 years may not be a huge thing if your annual take home pay was $2 million pa for those past 7 years.... on the other hand, if you managed to do that earning $20k pa, then that could be a different story.

Alternatively, you may have lived like a pauper and stressed yourself (and partners, friends family) out to achieve this, or spent 5 of the 7 years on holidays around the world etc...

Cheers,

The Y-man
 
....and that is a very, very important point made by HiEquity, it's about numbers.

Something I overlook in relating, it's not that we do not tapdance within our numbers framework, it's that I rarely ever convey....without OUR framework of what to buy-returning whatever we could do not do what we do.

Herein lies the problem - you can put out there some real numbers but in so doing:
1 - You are aware that some have done so much better in the intervening time so your effort can look quite paltry in comparison.
2 - The amount you made may actually look like an absolute shedload to others who will be asking "why haven't you retired yet you rich landlord you?". One persons retirement lump sum is just another day at the office for others... and that's life!
3 - You are aware that others who have shared some of their $$ story get set upon by a certain part of the forum, which hardly encourages using numbers in a public manner. TPS is alive and well despite the protestations!
4 - You know that using numbers could be seen as trying to make you look better than someone else (numbers bring out this reality in a rather stark manner) and we all know that nobody is any better than anyone else!

So instead we get symbols, motherhood statements such as "I'm doing really well" etc and our collective learning remains significantly restricted from what it could be. If you can work out a solution to this problem then please do share!

For me, my figures and numbers are what enable us to do what we do, and ability to repeat. So everyone's requirements are different I guess in that sense.

There are property investors that deal in less than and greater than millions that I do. That's fantastic, doing your thing, very happy for them, my deals and figures are pertinent to me, I actually don't hold myself comparable to others....I may borrow something of their learnings they have shared, but my competition is much within me, how you going to approach this one kid? Can you get yourself a better deal for you?

The first property was great because I got out there and did it.

In hindsight maybe I could have done better figures, a better deal and a slightly different approach-but property is actually quite forgiving of me.

It wasn't until about our third IP it dawmed on me I needed to find out how we would keep doing this, I thought I had a reasonable grasp on figures and deals and in reality what I thought I knew, I didn't really know that well.:)

Enter experienced property investing mortgage broker.

Learning curve goes up about figures and structuring and deals and EVERYTHING! exponentially.

Figures have never been and still are not my strength, systems, strategy and numbers are something that does not come easy to my brain, so there in is another example of a random person of the universe, random temperament and personality but importantly WANTING to create and build their financial independence.

No one need ever feel they are not cut out for property investing, if there is a will there may possibly be a way.

This forum especially has been a vital classroom for my tangibles, my concrete lessons on figures and meaning of jargon, it's still not a very strong point or strength of mine-but it's enough to get by.

Excellent post HiE. Very important.
 
Hi Giddo

This game we play is all about numbers. No other metric makes sense or is concrete enough for me. In order to be able to celebrate publicly and for it to make real sense to people we have to be prepared to say "From this base I made $x over 7 years and now earn a net income of $y from our investments". Anything else (to me) is just fluffy stuff (which has its own value OO - don't get me wrong! I enjoy that side of it but it doesn't compare to the real results, which can only be measured with the numbers).

Herein lies the problem - you can put out there some real numbers but in so doing:
1 - You are aware that some have done so much better in the intervening time so your effort can look quite paltry in comparison.
2 - The amount you made may actually look like an absolute shedload to others who will be asking "why haven't you retired yet you rich landlord you?". One persons retirement lump sum is just another day at the office for others... and that's life!
3 - You are aware that others who have shared some of their $$ story get set upon by a certain part of the forum, which hardly encourages using numbers in a public manner. TPS is alive and well despite the protestations!
4 - You know that using numbers could be seen as trying to make you look better than someone else (numbers bring out this reality in a rather stark manner) and we all know that nobody is any better than anyone else! :rolleyes:

So instead we get symbols, motherhood statements such as "I'm doing really well" etc and our collective learning remains significantly restricted from what it could be. If you can work out a solution to this problem then please do share! :)

A fantastic post Hi eq.
I am a straightforward sort of fellow, and didn't think much about comparisons other ppl might make. I know, I am naive. The good news is that I don't really care much what they think about my stuff.
On thinking a bit about it; I don't think my investment performance has been particularly great.
But I do know one thing. Property investment has been a helluva lot better to me than what I was doing earlier in my life - which was nothing!
The lesson for me is not about outperforming other people.
The message is JUST DO SOMETHING.

And all of we somersofters are doing that, even if we are still in the early stages of knowledge gathering.

We all should be patting ourselves on the back! :D
 
But why do I rarely see anyone celebrating their goals accomplished in the later years of property investment? Is it because the thrill has worn off by then, or is it that the investment has been a dud?
Well some of us realize is:
  • Very few get to keep what they made.
  • Others don't live long enough to see it either way.
  • Many of our friends got lost along the way
  • What most attribute to "expertise" is nothing but a tide lifting all boats.
  • Hubris leads to demise
  • We can't spend it in a pine box.
So we quietly acknowledge our luck and being part of the "lucky sperm club" and realize that the next generation of investors are going to do it all over again regardless of warnings or alerts.
They're going to load to the hilt on "good debt" and most will lose it all again muttering "it's different this time" and then paraphrasing the experts "It was unprecedented, nobody could've known".
 
I just read a thread from Monsoon titled "2009 goals Looking Good" and I am encouraged to see the enthusiasm for RE investment. I too believe in celebrating each rung up the ladder.

But why do I rarely see anyone celebrating their goals accomplished in the later years of property investment? Is it because the thrill has worn off by then, or is it that the investment has been a dud?
I mean, surely the purchase of a property is just the beginning, and is actually a step into the largely unknown. Yes celebrate the first step, but wouldn't there be much more reason to celebrate about 7 years later.

In the spirit of celebrating goals after 7 years, I want to tell you that I have managed (through a combination of luck, hard yakka, and waiting) to achieve the following:

1. Learn a great deal about buying, developing and selling through doing five different projects part time.

2. Learnt that banks exist to help themselves, but with care, they can help me too.

3. Increased my net worth by about 400%.

4. Attained positive gearing to the tune of about $20k per annum.

5. Learned what leverage can do for me (and do to me too)

6. Managed to curb a desire to take wild risks with my money.

So that is my little celebration. I am absolutely certain that many of my somersofter colleagues have done alot lot better over the past 7 years, and I hope you have.:)

HI Equity,(Kudos to you!) Great explanation.

Hi Giddo, (Kudos to you!) For reminding me how much I have learned.

Great to see you around again.

I am also in my seventh year of intentional investing and planned strategy. When you list your lessons like that, I cannot believe how much I have also learned in this time.

Property Investing also opened up new avenues for me and encouraged me to passionately learn about many things that influence the economy. It has not only been economically educational but also psychologically educational. In regards to not only myself and those around me but to different groups of people whether demographically or mentally.

I am obviously still learning and that is the beauty of it - and I am having a fantastic time doing it. :) :)

Regards JO
 
Giddo, nice post.

For me the end goal is all about reaching a certain equity/income that gives one choices and opportunity. The posts I enjoy most are the ones related to people achieving a certain amount of equity and/or income and a little on how. The numbers posted make it very real for me.

I will keep posting my own milestones every $1m of equity reached. I hope to do that more often as it took me 6 years to post my 2nd major milestone.

The one thing I've learnt over 10 years of investing is the importance of keeping my eye on the J.O.B during the journey. A high income combined with an investment mind set is super powerful. I find this issue never gets too much air play on this forum.
 
Oscar:
A high income combined with an investment mind set is super powerful. I find this issue never gets too much air play on this forum.

Yes.

And perhaps, a relatively low income with an investment mindset not only powerful, but empowering. Oops. That word again.

Something for everyone. Not the size but whatchya do with it.
 
The one thing I've learnt over 10 years of investing is the importance of keeping my eye on the J.O.B during the journey. A high income combined with an investment mind set is super powerful. I find this issue never gets too much air play on this forum.

I agree. The Kiyosaki followers make JOB sound like a dirty word. I've copped a lot of flack from many of them over the last couple of years who have criticised me for still having a JOB. The implication being that I haven't reached their level of enlightenment or success. I challenge that.
I've managed to build up $1m equity in the last few years doing my own thing, working my negative gearing strategy and focussing on my goal. I've broken a lot of "rules" along the way and challenged many assertions.
I could not have done this without using my PAYG income to it's full advantage.
I only have an ordinary income, but being single, I've leveraged it to the hilt.
Great post Oscar, you're an inspiration!
 
Oscar:

Yes.

And perhaps, a relatively low income with an investment mindset not only powerful, but empowering. Oops. That word again.

Something for everyone. Not the size but whatchya do with it.

Oscar and Our Obsession -- Interesting your differing viewpoints.

This just illustrates how everything an individual does is filtered by their own experiences and their own preferences and prejudices.

I happen to more closely resemble Obsessions point of view on this point --HOWEVER if I actually HAD a high paying job and ENjOYED it no doubt I would think differently.

As it happens I value greatly NOT having a 9-5 job, and I am happyto endure a lower income so that I can do that. Empowering!:eek:

We all of us have that question to deal with, and we all must resolve it in our our own ways. If we can't resolve that question, frustration results eh?

:)
 
3 - You are aware that others who have shared some of their $$ story get set upon by a certain part of the forum, which hardly encourages using numbers in a public manner. TPS is alive and well despite the protestations!
4 - You know that using numbers could be seen as trying to make you look better than someone else (numbers bring out this reality in a rather stark manner) and we all know that nobody is any better than anyone else! :rolleyes:

So instead we get symbols, motherhood statements such as "I'm doing really well" etc and our collective learning remains significantly restricted from what it could be. If you can work out a solution to this problem then please do share! :)

I concur...for me it went as far as another forum having a go at me for being a "bull investor" and acting "bullish" when I made public my small amount of success about 2 years ago. Since then, I've pulled my head in, just like you say, motherhood flowing statements...

Anyway, I'm over that and have become somewhat more humble as I have learned from the experience. :D
 
Oscar is terrific, my post was for those that maybe wandering in, lurking, thinking they don't earn enough, don't know enough, might think investing is 1 2 and 3 bingo....just my attempt to keep somersoft door or is it window? of investing opportunity rammed open.

I think the thing of somersoft is that no size fits all.

We all have our own and unique, individual stories/circumstances.

I hope folk that arrive at somersoft get to create their own story.

That's all.
 
Oscar:

Yes.

And perhaps, a relatively low income with an investment mindset not only powerful, but empowering. Oops. That word again.

Something for everyone. Not the size but whatchya do with it.

I agree entirely. Point is that if you also empower yourself in your J.O.B, that relatively low income can become a relatively high one. Leverage X Leverage = something pretty powerful...
 
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