share or property

Our SMSF has a very significant component of shares which I manage myself. The SMSF has also owned property (land). The costs of running a share portfolio are just so much lower than property - I could sell all my shares for $30; having purchased them for the same fees; the same transaction in property would cost around $20,000 in stamp duties, commissions and taxes. Money lost!

Obviously the SMSF cant do margin loans, but I am considering doing this within the company structure, where for the past four years the shares I have been trading have increased 30% per annum; property cant match that. Risk of shares? Well, even on the days where the market plunges I still have had some greens.
 
IP forming the core asset base and Shares to be invested in some blue chips. I am personally aiming at 75/25% spilt in favour of IP. Its got to do a lot with numbers as well. If i hit the $2M mark then i will be very nervous about having more then 500k in shares. I know its not logical but it comes back to SANF.
Hi traveller,

I had 25/75 split in favour of IPs in 2003, now it's the other way around. In 3 yrs I expect it will be back to hugely overweight in IPs. And I'd have been extremely nervous about $500K in shares back in 2003.... but these days my margin loan much bigger than that and it's on the conservative side. As your financial knowledge, experience & confidence improves, you'll get a higher SANF. Think where you were 5 yrs ago and compare it to where you are now - did you believe back then that you'd get to where you are now in 5 short yrs? How far do you expect to go in the next 5 yrs ?
Cheers Keith
 
Interested in what changes you will be making during the next three years and why?
Hi belleran,

This is how I see things this week....

Shares & their earnings are currently fair value (some would say fully valued) - I expect them to rise by another 30-50% over the next 1-3 years. The beginning of the end for shares has probably started with the US housing slump/mortgage defaults/CDO problems. But it will take a lot more bad news before any crash - however, when the crash comes it will be sudden.

Last FY the ASX gained 33% - it's expected to be a good profit reporting season with earnings up 10%ish. The ASX at 7000 by early 2008 would be a reasonable figure based on the current 6300 + another 10% based those improved earnings. There won't be much M&A factor, but there will be the super & future fund factors. It's possible 'the herd' will notice the headlines & drive the ASX way past 7000.

Interest rates are expected to rise a little over the next 12 months. The following year they could go either way - to much will happen between now & then to have more than a 50% chance of being right.

The last (East coast) boom ended in early 2003, it's been flat for the 4 years since then, so adjusting for inflation prices have actually fallen by 10%. I'd expect low growth at a little above inflation for the next couple of years and hope that rental yields rise faster to catch up. With luck IP will become relatively good value within a couple of years - relative to it's historical yields & also relative to shares.

So there are likely 4 scenarios -
  • Share market gets overvalued/risky - I'll start buying put options as insurance. And probably decide that even though IP isn't really good value, it's less risky than shares, so will start buying again. If this happens scenario happens first then it's likely that yields on IP are comparable with the overvalued share yields, so it will be an easy decision.
  • IP gets to be better value/lower risk than shares or good value on a historical basis due to rising rents - I'll sell the riskier/overvalued shares progressively & buy quality IP that yields at least as much as the shares I'm selling. I'll wear the CGT.
  • In the unlikely event that IP never becomes good value/low risk again, I'll leave my quality blue chip income paying shares where they are and ignore their price, and live off the income they produce. And I'll keep my existing IPs.
  • Sharemarket crashes unexpectedly due to left field event - I'd hope that dividends would be relatively unaffected. Rents are unlikely to be adversely affected.

My preferred scenario would be for IP to become good value before there's enough bad news to depress the global economy and share market.

I'll be happy to miss the last bit (or lot) of the ASX rise if I'm mostly invested in lower risk but equally high yielding IP assets.

IRs are a bit of a wild card, so there could be completely different scenarios to consider - that'll be an interesting thought process I'll save till later...

Of course, next week the world will change, so I'll have a slightly different view.....

Cheers Keith
 
I have both shares and IPs, and am planning to leverage my shares within the next 6 months. Like anything, it's a matter of identifying and managing risk. Although margin calls sound scary, if you can carry sufficient cash reserve, a shares downturn or crash is a brilliant time to buy. I own all my shares through quality managed funds, whose investment styles I have chosen myself.
 
Hi Keith
Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions. I thought you might have a crystal ball stashed somewhere but obviously not. You do have your strategies sorted for all conceivable scenarios though.
You mentioned that the east coast has been flat for four years since 2003. Maybe Sydney but Brisbane is firing in some pockets and doing well in all areas that I,m aware of.
belleran
 
given that it is possible to gear up shares 80% - 90%, why not go with shares or obtain exposure to property via a property trust?
You can actually gear 100% into shares & managed funds - and you can do so with capital protected products (something it is extremely difficult to do with property).

Personally wouldn't advocate doing one to the total exclusion of the other, as with any gearing the interest rates are charged almost totally dependant on the security class offered.
 
Really interesting... if we consider the *cash* class of asset as well as IP and shares with the 4 scenarios

1) shares + IP undervalued
2) shares undervalued only
3) IP undervalued only
4) shares + IP overvalued

A simplistic view is: For 1 buy shares or IP (depends on your style), for 2 buy shares, for 3 buy IP for 4 buy cash.. I mean hold assets in cash. However where are we... and also if we aren't buy-and-hold investors, then money can be made at any stage of the cycle?
 
Hi KiethJ,

Nice summary. I'm very much aligned with your thinking currently too as I've posted in different threads with bits here and there. I think my current asset mix is about 40%/60% shares/property.

I'm a bit of a value buyer and apply that strategy to both shares and property. I've currently got a significant margined up share portfolio and intend to hold it for now as I still reckon it represents fair value. As you alluded, the market has not gone crazy yet and there's the potential for 7000 within the next 6-9 months.

About the only difference in our strategies as I understand them is that I may yet hold my shares indefinately if the market does not become over-priced. I won't "move" my money into IPs when they become better value. What I'll do is put more money into IPs but keep my shares for the cash flow that they provide.

Mona Vale should be finished within 2 years and realise me a fair bit of additional equity. I can LOC that equity out and use it as 20% down on more IPs. I can hold my shares for their cash flow which helps my servicability picture.

My current IP sub-market of preference is Adelaide, but in two years time that might be different.

Cheers,
Michael.

PS Tried to kudos your post but it seems I don't share it around enough...
 
Hi Keith,

Agree with your assessment here. However,i like Michael will like to retain my Shares for the dividend portion. CG at my tax bracket just kills any idea for anything but Buy and Hold until and unless the market goes crazy...

thanks-
 
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