Hi guys. I currently live in Sydenham and just bought a PPOR in South East. I am in dilemma whether to sell or keep it as investment. For the last 24 months, bank valuation has been stagnant. Gross yield would be just under 5%. Anyone who is familiar with the area, what's your thoughts for CG in future?
Should I sell? Sydenham VIC
- Thread starter imbi3
- Start date
I think Sydenham is in Brimbank City Council, correct me if I am wrong.
Is your property in Sydenham a house or unit?
I'm guessing it's probably a house. Do you know the proposed residential zoning for the property - NRZ, GRZ or RGZ under Plan Melbourne?
Is your property in Sydenham a house or unit?
I'm guessing it's probably a house. Do you know the proposed residential zoning for the property - NRZ, GRZ or RGZ under Plan Melbourne?
Do you have plans for what you would do with the funds released from selling? Reinvest into another asset? Take a holiday?
Factoring in transaction costs (selling, CGT, etc), is there actually a profit worth taking?
FWIW Sydenham doesn't appear in the prediction reports I've seen in recent times, so perhaps its done its CG dash for the time being?
Factoring in transaction costs (selling, CGT, etc), is there actually a profit worth taking?
FWIW Sydenham doesn't appear in the prediction reports I've seen in recent times, so perhaps its done its CG dash for the time being?
Hi Beanie Girl, it is in Brimbank and was proposed to be GRZ. However, I recently checked the zoning online and it is now R1Z. Am planning to ring the council sometime this week. I have a feeling that they didn't get zoning approved in time
It is owner occupied so no CGT
imbi, Brimbank is one of the eighteen remaining councils that have not got their specific local residential zoning plan approved yet by Planning Minister. It could be stuck in the Residential Zones Standing Advisory Committee like many other Council's specific plans are or it could be with Planning Minister but just not approved yet or needs changes.
So all RZ 1,2 and 3 is now included in the General Residential Zone as defined by Planning Victoria (definition provided below).
What's the size of your block, if you don't mind me asking?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Amendment VC116 removed the Residential 1, 2 and 3 Zones from the Victoria Planning Provisions and these metropolitan planning schemes: Banyule, Brimbank, Cardinia, Darebin, Frankston, Kingston, Knox, Maribyrnong, Melton, Moonee Valley, Moreland, Mornington Peninsula, Nillumbik, Port Phillip, Stonnington, Whitehorse, Whittlesea and Yarra.
Land in these schemes that was previously in the Residential 1, 2 or 3 Zone is now included in the General Residential Zone".
Key features
The General Residential Zone includes:
So all RZ 1,2 and 3 is now included in the General Residential Zone as defined by Planning Victoria (definition provided below).
What's the size of your block, if you don't mind me asking?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Amendment VC116 removed the Residential 1, 2 and 3 Zones from the Victoria Planning Provisions and these metropolitan planning schemes: Banyule, Brimbank, Cardinia, Darebin, Frankston, Kingston, Knox, Maribyrnong, Melton, Moonee Valley, Moreland, Mornington Peninsula, Nillumbik, Port Phillip, Stonnington, Whitehorse, Whittlesea and Yarra.
Land in these schemes that was previously in the Residential 1, 2 or 3 Zone is now included in the General Residential Zone".
Key features
The General Residential Zone includes:
- allowing local application requirements and decision guidelines to be specified
- third party notice, objection and review rights for section 2 use and buildings and works applications
- encouraging a range of building scales through a discretionary height limit of nine metres for residential development (except where specified differently in a schedule to the zone)
- a local maximum building height that can be specified in a schedule to the zone that cannot be exceeded
- allowing key residential siting and design requirements to be varied for different neighbourhoods
- a planning permit threshold to construct one dwelling on a lot of 300 square metres but allowing a council to specify a different threshold of 500 square metres (the key word here is planning permit threshold. Bit tricky to understand this bit)
- restrictions on non residential land uses such as place of worship and medical centre
- allowing small scale commercial uses such as a shop and food and drink premises subject to a permit.
What would you use the sale proceeds for?
I think Sydenham has a lot going for it (as a reasonably affordable suburb, within about 30 mins of the city by train) and if you can get a decent rental yield, it shouldn't be costing you money each month.
Have you put it on interest only repayments?
If you don't need to sell to reduce your PPOR debt, I would be inclined to keep it for a few years (maybe up to the 6 year CGT exemption) depending on your situation.
Block size is 600+ sqm, standard size
Yes, I figured the minister hasn't approved the new zoning yet. I can't see people on my street will start building high density dwellings anytime soon, given majority of the houses are approx. 15 years old.
Are you a local Beanie Girl? I saw some agents have started spruiking GRZ for some properties near Keilor Plains
Yes, I thought the suburb is quite reasonable given the public station and distance to city but prices have not been going up lately. I still have 3 months to decide what to do with it
Hi imbi, your property in Sydenham is now automatically rezoned from RZ1 to GRZ from 1st July 2014 according to the Planning Victoria definition above. You can hypothetically apply for a planning permit today to build 2 X 3 storey (9 metre height) townhouses on 600 m block of land
But speak to a planner in your Council first. However, they may not give you the correct info because they may not want people to take advantage of this interim period of flux.
You said it will be GRZ under the Brimbank Council proposed residential zoning.
So if the Brimbank proposed resi zoning is approved 100% the way they want, your property is still highly likely to be zoned GRZ.
All councils are allowed to tweak/finetune the definition of GRZ as they would like it to apply to their LGA. Do you know what the tweaked version of GRZ is for Brimbank Council? Did you receive a letter from Council outlining their proposed definition of what can be built under GRZ?
But speak to a planner in your Council first. However, they may not give you the correct info because they may not want people to take advantage of this interim period of flux.
You said it will be GRZ under the Brimbank Council proposed residential zoning.
So if the Brimbank proposed resi zoning is approved 100% the way they want, your property is still highly likely to be zoned GRZ.
All councils are allowed to tweak/finetune the definition of GRZ as they would like it to apply to their LGA. Do you know what the tweaked version of GRZ is for Brimbank Council? Did you receive a letter from Council outlining their proposed definition of what can be built under GRZ?
I went to the council meeting when they proposed the changes. Here is the zoning schedules that were proposed to us. I am not sure if they are the final version
http://www.brimbank.vic.gov.au/DEVELOPMENT/Strategic_Planning_Development/New_Residential_Zones
http://www.brimbank.vic.gov.au/DEVELOPMENT/Strategic_Planning_Development/New_Residential_Zones
I have read/glanced through the GRZ document on the website
At face value, looks like it does not specify a minimum lot size for a dwelling for a GRZ zone
May be subject to what Council is willing to grant you and how you compensate for a smaller lot size than 300m in terms of landscaping, site coverage, setback etc. How does your plan compensate or meet performance criteria.
"A permit is required to construct or extend one dwelling on:
A lot of less than 300 square metres"
At face value, looks like it does not specify a minimum lot size for a dwelling for a GRZ zone
May be subject to what Council is willing to grant you and how you compensate for a smaller lot size than 300m in terms of landscaping, site coverage, setback etc. How does your plan compensate or meet performance criteria.
"A permit is required to construct or extend one dwelling on:
A lot of less than 300 square metres"
Hi...
Some people prefer to hold on to property and some prefer to sell.
I am a person who is some where in the middle. When it comes to PPOR, I would rather sell it and use the profits to either invest or more importantly pay down your new PPOR loan.
Why?
1) No capital gains tax on your PPOR:
2) Capital growth has stalled: Since the inception of Taylors Hill and Carolinespring.
Some people prefer to hold on to property and some prefer to sell.
I am a person who is some where in the middle. When it comes to PPOR, I would rather sell it and use the profits to either invest or more importantly pay down your new PPOR loan.
Why?
1) No capital gains tax on your PPOR:
2) Capital growth has stalled: Since the inception of Taylors Hill and Carolinespring.
From my superficial reading of the definition of GRZ in the planning documents on the website, theoretically, very theoretically, (and I'm not a town planner or architect), as it stands now, you could possibly build 3 dwellings on your land of 600+m (STCA) if it's zoned GRZ e.g. 3 double-storey townhouses. But pls check with a qualified town planner 
I can build 3 double-storey townhouses on my block of 600+ land now without batting an eyelid. A few 3 X 2 storey townhouse developments around me already. Just got to put plans in to get the permit. My PPOR is zoned GRZ now too.
then it comes down to the design, the width of your frontage, the amount of setback, your open space requirements (how you meet this in terms of balcony/garden space), how you compensate in other ways that make good design sense if you don't meet the minimum in the performance outcomes etc etc
Some like Glen Eira Council has 93% NRZ
Nimbys will love the high % of NRZ in Councils like Boorandara, Bayside, Glen Eira and Kingston
But for those 18 Council LGA that have not got their proposed resi zoning approved, all RZ 1,2 and 3 land is rezoned GRZ for the moment in spite of their proposed resi zoning.
I can build 3 double-storey townhouses on my block of 600+ land now without batting an eyelid. A few 3 X 2 storey townhouse developments around me already. Just got to put plans in to get the permit. My PPOR is zoned GRZ now too.
then it comes down to the design, the width of your frontage, the amount of setback, your open space requirements (how you meet this in terms of balcony/garden space), how you compensate in other ways that make good design sense if you don't meet the minimum in the performance outcomes etc etc
Some like Glen Eira Council has 93% NRZ
Nimbys will love the high % of NRZ in Councils like Boorandara, Bayside, Glen Eira and Kingston
But for those 18 Council LGA that have not got their proposed resi zoning approved, all RZ 1,2 and 3 land is rezoned GRZ for the moment in spite of their proposed resi zoning.
Hi JP
I am covered in point 1. Property is currently in name, will sell to wife and will use the proceed to paydown the new PPOR. It will also be CG free for me
Point 2 is something that concerns me
From my superficial reading of the definition of GRZ in the planning documents on the website, theoretically, very theoretically, (and I'm not a town planner or architect), as it stands now, you could possibly build 3 dwellings on your land of 600+m (STCA) if it's zoned GRZ e.g. 3 double-storey townhouses. But pls check with a qualified town planner
Potentially so but houses in our area are still reasonably new, so I wouldn't expect anything aggresive for the next 5-10 years
Which suburb is your property at, if you don't mind me asking?
I used to have an IP in St Albans South. It's now zoned GRZ as it is near Ginifer train station.
I'm making an educated guess that your property is near the Watergardens Activity Centre, zoned GRZ, serviced by Sydenham train station. Big regional Shopping and homemaker centre there, Watergardens Town Centre.
That's only 24km to the city.
Boxhill is already 20km to the city, Ringwood 28km.
The State government, Labor or Liberal will always be pushing higher density close to major shopping centres and train stations and key roads/highways.
I'm making an educated guess that your property is near the Watergardens Activity Centre, zoned GRZ, serviced by Sydenham train station. Big regional Shopping and homemaker centre there, Watergardens Town Centre.
That's only 24km to the city.
Boxhill is already 20km to the city, Ringwood 28km.
The State government, Labor or Liberal will always be pushing higher density close to major shopping centres and train stations and key roads/highways.
While development might be approved by council, I can't see it being worthwhile for a relatively new suburb, unless the house is practically falling down. Besides the prices and access to the cbd, one of the drawcards for families to live in Sydenham is the decent block sizes (which many of the new fringe suburbs don't have). While medium/high density living is becoming unavoidable for so many, there is always going to be demand for a family home with a decent backyard.
Selling is the safe option as you will save ~5% by paying down your mortgage but if you want an IP, there are benefits to keeping it, compared to the costs of selling and buying again.
I live in Taylors Lakes, which is one suburb closer to the city than Sydenham. I'm not a seasoned property developer so my view of the area might be different to others, based on my living in the area.
Although Sydenham is well located, there are new estates surrounding it that appeal more to new home buyers and are still close to the station and Watergardens shopping centre. Sydenham hasn't aged as well as surrounding established suburbs, and I don't see prices increasing anytime soon. Maybe once Taylors Hill and Caroline Springs become less affordable? And that's a big maybe. I think these new estates have had the same effect on Hillside.
That's not to say there are some good pockets of Sydenham that will probably sell for more than other parts and increase in price over time. The section closest to Watergardens (between Hume Drive and the station) is the nicest to me, and walking distance to the station and shopping centre. I would buy there.
Also I agree with Chris B - these parts of town still appeal to family buyers. I have noticed that young families are still buying in the area and replacing those who have downsized, probably because the access to the CBD between Sydenham/Taylors Lakes and Caroline Springs is light years apart, even though the suburbs are only 5km or so in distance.
I also notice more "for lease" signs in the area are increasing in number and disappearing pretty quickly, so there must be a rental market for large family homes that you can tap into. I have a feeling that the family homes + great access to CBD is proving a winner for rentals in the area, and is probably more expensive in equivalent areas on the other side of the city. Good luck!
Although Sydenham is well located, there are new estates surrounding it that appeal more to new home buyers and are still close to the station and Watergardens shopping centre. Sydenham hasn't aged as well as surrounding established suburbs, and I don't see prices increasing anytime soon. Maybe once Taylors Hill and Caroline Springs become less affordable? And that's a big maybe. I think these new estates have had the same effect on Hillside.
That's not to say there are some good pockets of Sydenham that will probably sell for more than other parts and increase in price over time. The section closest to Watergardens (between Hume Drive and the station) is the nicest to me, and walking distance to the station and shopping centre. I would buy there.
Also I agree with Chris B - these parts of town still appeal to family buyers. I have noticed that young families are still buying in the area and replacing those who have downsized, probably because the access to the CBD between Sydenham/Taylors Lakes and Caroline Springs is light years apart, even though the suburbs are only 5km or so in distance.
I also notice more "for lease" signs in the area are increasing in number and disappearing pretty quickly, so there must be a rental market for large family homes that you can tap into. I have a feeling that the family homes + great access to CBD is proving a winner for rentals in the area, and is probably more expensive in equivalent areas on the other side of the city. Good luck!
Last edited:
Another angle to look at, whats the rental you'll be able to get? Have rents been rising in the area? This can offset some slower capital growth if rents are doing OK and help your decision to hold on.
A lot of people regret selling properties and remember, 24 months is nothing in the scheme of things - property should be longer term.
A lot of people regret selling properties and remember, 24 months is nothing in the scheme of things - property should be longer term.
Hi imbi3
Where exactly in Sydenham?
Sydenham is actually two suburbs in one. There is "old" Sydenham and "new" Sydenham.
Old Sydenham is north of Melton Hwy bordered by the railway, Calder Park Drive, Calder Fwy, and Melton Hwy.
"new" Sydenham is south of Melton Hwy, starting with where the Fernwood/Medical Centre/Flippers swimming centre, and is bordered by Melton Hwy, Calder Park Drive, Hume Drive, and the railway. This is pretty much the area tone1 was describing.
You will find valuations are different in both sections. The newer part from my person experience is usually $20,000-$50,000 difference for the same type of property.
IMO Rose Hedge is the "best" part of Sydenham, so if you're there I personally would keep it as IP and rent it out.
I agree that CG has stagnated for the past 2 years, but usually when there's a lull in valuations then you're already at the bottom of the possible upswing. So why not stick it out IF YOU CAN AFFORD TO?
I used to live there when I still lived with my parents. They are still there.
For anecdotal evidence, their house was built in 2000 for a total of $185,000 and in 2014 a SMALLER townhouse sold for $460,000 (theirs is a freestanding single-storey house). I would estimate theirs, on a 650sqm block, would be pretty close to $500k. Not "fantastic" CG (14 years and has not double twice), but pretty damn good all things considered.
Where exactly in Sydenham?
Sydenham is actually two suburbs in one. There is "old" Sydenham and "new" Sydenham.
Old Sydenham is north of Melton Hwy bordered by the railway, Calder Park Drive, Calder Fwy, and Melton Hwy.
"new" Sydenham is south of Melton Hwy, starting with where the Fernwood/Medical Centre/Flippers swimming centre, and is bordered by Melton Hwy, Calder Park Drive, Hume Drive, and the railway. This is pretty much the area tone1 was describing.
You will find valuations are different in both sections. The newer part from my person experience is usually $20,000-$50,000 difference for the same type of property.
IMO Rose Hedge is the "best" part of Sydenham, so if you're there I personally would keep it as IP and rent it out.
I agree that CG has stagnated for the past 2 years, but usually when there's a lull in valuations then you're already at the bottom of the possible upswing. So why not stick it out IF YOU CAN AFFORD TO?
I used to live there when I still lived with my parents. They are still there.
For anecdotal evidence, their house was built in 2000 for a total of $185,000 and in 2014 a SMALLER townhouse sold for $460,000 (theirs is a freestanding single-storey house). I would estimate theirs, on a 650sqm block, would be pretty close to $500k. Not "fantastic" CG (14 years and has not double twice), but pretty damn good all things considered.
