Should PM give landlord a copy of the lease?

[porp_e]

Hi all,

Sorry if I am re-hashing an old subject (pretty sure I've seen a thread about this before but can't for the life of me find it, and no love getting an answer via Google either...)

Just wanting to know whether a PM should give a copy of the lease and ingoing condition report to the landlord?

Thanks.

 

[Alabex]

in NSW it is a requirement that a LL get a copy of anything signed on their behalf by the agent... and that would include the lease and condition report. I would assume that is the case in all states.

 

[Perp]

Just wanting to know whether a PM should give a copy of the lease and ingoing condition report to the landlord?

Yes, it's good practise, but I wouldn't be upset if they didn't do it as a default, (ie if you have to ask), because personally, I'd rather not have any of that paperwork sent to me. But that's me.

If a PM is trying to use "privacy" to claim that they can't, that's nonsense. You can't possibly be refused access to a document which you're contractually bound by.

 

[marg4000]

We always get copies of leases sent to us by the PM.
We only keep the current lease - get a new one, destroy the previous one.
Marg

 

[porp_e]

Thanks for all the advice.

Sent a polite email to the PM requesting both lease and condition report, reply back was along the lines of: we don't usually do that but happy to send to you if you want. The property is in NSW so found response particularily odd given the earlier comment by Alabex. Fingers crossed now the docs actually arrive, haven't had the best dealings with this PM to date so definately preparing to have to chase up a few times

 

[Fudge]

As previous posters mention, you are able to request one if not recieved, and the PM's are obliged to forward.

I am not saying all PM's are liars, but how do you know if they have an actual agreement in place ......I have had some PM's tell me some great porkies. before.

I have all mine, as I have heard that some insurance policies don't provide rental assistance if the tenants jack (even though you might be paying for it in your cover) when the lease is a periodic tenancy, compared to a fixed term tenancy??

F

 

[Lynds]

Sorry to hijack this thread but I am I reight to assume that as a landlord you have a legal right to receive a copyof a notice to vacate given to a tenant?

 

[Alabex]

Thanks for all the advice.

Sent a polite email to the PM requesting both lease and condition report, reply back was along the lines of: we don't usually do that but happy to send to you if you want. The property is in NSW so found response particularily odd given the earlier comment by Alabex. Fingers crossed now the docs actually arrive, haven't had the best dealings with this PM to date so definately preparing to have to chase up a few times

Actually have to admit that the agency i used to work for we only sent the lease not the condition report. It wasn't until i was reading the agency agreement fine print at some point that i noticed there was a quite a clear clause saying that anything that we sign on the LL behalf had to be provided to them. I confirmed this with the REINSW at the time. So all our proceedures had to change. Some landlords did tell us not to worry, but most were very happy to receive the extra docs.

 

[lura]

best practice is to give the owner a copy of lease and entry condition report

 

[Dazz]

Just wanting to know whether a PM should give a copy of the lease and ingoing condition report to the landlord?

Hiya porp_e,


I just spent an enjoyable 10 minutes perusing the NSW rules, you may wish to do the same....

http://www.legislation.nsw.gov.au/fullhtml/inforce/act+26+1987+FIRST+0+N#pt.3-div.1-sec.17


Incredulously, your question is not specifically listed (as best I can tell) due to the fact that the legislation refers to the two major parties continually, that is the Landlord and the Tenant. Those parties are the principals to the Contract. Everyone else is a hanger on, including the Agent (representing either Landlord or Tenant).


To have a hanger on try to purport that the principal to the agreement doesn't need to or isn't entitled to a copy of the agreement is pure nonsense.


The Landlord is entitled to every document, especially the Lease and Condition Report.....and is in fact obligated to provide the Tenant with a copy. Whether that is through his Agent or not....


Agents (especially PMs) sometimes get a little ahead of themselves and forget their station in life. Their office "policies" don't mean jack squat. By the fact of you asking this question, it is clear who is running the show between Agent and Landlord.


My suggestion porp_e is to have a wee squizz at the rulebook and get up to speed with being a Landlord, then you ;

a) won't need to ask that sort of question.
b) won't get pushed around by any servant or agent working for you.


Cheers.

 

[SYD]

Yes, it's good practise, but I wouldn't be upset if they didn't do it as a default, (ie if you have to ask), because personally, I'd rather not have any of that paperwork sent to me. But that's me.

Hi Perp,

If you don't have a copy of the lease aren't you asking for trouble? It is much better to have all the details of the lease in writing such as the rental amount, payment method, special conditions etc. You need the lease if you ever have a dispute with either the tenant or the PM. I would want to be signing off on the lease prior to it being signed and sealed.

SYD

 

[Perp]

Incredulously, your question is not specifically listed (as best I can tell) due to the fact that the legislation refers to the two major parties continually, that is the Landlord and the Tenant. Those parties are the principals to the Contract. Everyone else is a hanger on, including the Agent (representing either Landlord or Tenant).


To have a hanger on try to purport that the principal to the agreement doesn't need to or isn't entitled to a copy of the agreement is pure nonsense.

Amen! That's why the "privacy" thing is a joke, too. The landlord is absolutely entitled to all information provided for the purpose of being your tenant; it's the agent who has the privilege of seeing this information only by virtue of the fact that they're acting as your agent.

If you don't have a copy of the lease aren't you asking for trouble? It is much better to have all the details of the lease in writing such as the rental amount, payment method, special conditions etc. You need the lease if you ever have a dispute with either the tenant or the PM.

Maybe... but I have a multi-tenancy, with 16 tenants, who change over or renew every 6 months. I'm an admitted paperwork disaster; I don't want 32 leases per year added to my paperwork burden. There are no special conditions inserted without my approval, they run every tenancy by me verbally before signing, and that's really all I want. I also peruse the statements each month which list the tenants and when their lease expires for any anomalies.

I choose to delegate the keeping of these records to the PM. I trust them enough that even if a dispute were to arise, I'm sure they'd provide copies of all documents. (In fact, I'm sure that would be the case with the vast majority of property managers all over the country.) If you suspect it could get ugly and they may resist giving you copies, then you don't let them know how p***ed off you are until after you've gotten copies of everything.

 

[INVSTOR]

Hi Porp E,
I've asked this question previously too as I have one Qld agent who doesn't send me mine. I really don't get how I'm suppose to check if I'm getting paid correctly, budget or apply for further loans without it. I usually request copies now but sometimes when I request a copy of the current or new lease they send me copies of the old ones.

 

[Perp]

I really don't get how I'm suppose to check if I'm getting paid correctly, budget or apply for further loans without it.

They don't send you regular statements?

 

[Peterw]

Generally, the level of contact, and what copies etc are sent on to LL's, usually gets discussed at the time of the appointment. Some landlords want to be full hands on, yet others dont want to hear except a statement that the moneys in the bank. I do agree, it would be more beneficial for the working relationship for both parties to better understand their rights as well as obligations.For what its worth, you may wish to look up the legal definition/position of an agent. If nothing else, it may be an enjoyable 10 minutes of reading.

 

[INVSTOR]

They don't send you regular statements?

I get the monthly statements. One time I had a tenant break lease, a 2nd tenant who signed up to take over and then renegged (so i got one weeks rent off them and nothing more and it released the first tenant of any further penalty), then a third tenant that ended up taking it. It can get complex and the statements don't tell the story of what's happening, I would rather know.

 

[porp_e]

Hiya porp_e,


I just spent an enjoyable 10 minutes perusing the NSW rules, you may wish to do the same....

http://www.legislation.nsw.gov.au/fullhtml/inforce/act+26+1987+FIRST+0+N#pt.3-div.1-sec.17


Incredulously, your question is not specifically listed (as best I can tell) due to the fact that the legislation refers to the two major parties continually, that is the Landlord and the Tenant. Those parties are the principals to the Contract. Everyone else is a hanger on, including the Agent (representing either Landlord or Tenant).


To have a hanger on try to purport that the principal to the agreement doesn't need to or isn't entitled to a copy of the agreement is pure nonsense.


The Landlord is entitled to every document, especially the Lease and Condition Report.....and is in fact obligated to provide the Tenant with a copy. Whether that is through his Agent or not....


Agents (especially PMs) sometimes get a little ahead of themselves and forget their station in life. Their office "policies" don't mean jack squat. By the fact of you asking this question, it is clear who is running the show between Agent and Landlord.


My suggestion porp_e is to have a wee squizz at the rulebook and get up to speed with being a Landlord, then you ;

a) won't need to ask that sort of question.
b) won't get pushed around by any servant or agent working for you.


Cheers.

Thanks Dazz this was very helpful, and also answered some other questions i had...took me a bit longer than 10 minutes to read though!