Should we be worried?

[jingo]

Jase and Jason, I appreciate the distinction you two are making between X and Ys, but I would argue that many of both do not know how to fix something. Rather they prefer to go and buy new. I blame BBs for this, as they wanted their kids to all go to uni, rather then become tradies. Hence we have significant proportion of XYs that don't know how to hammer a nail, or use a screwdriver, etc.

When I was growing up every guy, even white collar workers, took a bit of pride in having a bit of manual skill. What do you think?

Oh WinstonWolf, you sound just like my Grandfather... and how right you are, in my case anyway!

I thought though that the point JaseH made, and I echoed was that we were raised during the time of the "recession we had to have", and therefore have learnt to appreciate the value of money. Having seen first hand my parents struggle, I have been influenced by this, and therefore have sought to build a secure future for my family and I.

Now, back to your points. I couldn't hammer a nail in straight if you paid me. I went to uni, (thanks bb mum and dad) and was not shown manual skills by my own father. (Because he was too busy working 12 hours a day to keep us afloat!). How I wish I did have them now - they would come in extremely handy when something goes wrong around the house. As it now stands I have to call for help from tradies on most things.

I can type fast though - does that count as a manual skill!! (Lol).

If there is any consolation for you, I did just finish paying my Hecs debt off last year. This system was introduced during my first year of Uni!

Regards Jason.

 

[Jase H]

Thanks Jason,

Appreciate the feedback. It's nice to hear from some similarly minded Xers!

Now if only my Y Gen brother would sort his act out!


Jase

 

[jingo]

Thanks Jason,

Appreciate the feedback. It's nice to hear from some similarly minded Xers!

Now if only my Y Gen brother would sort his act out!


Jase

Thanks Jase,

I'm looking forward to WinstonWolfe's reply. Have you got a relative that sounds like him!!! lol!!

 

[WinstonWolfe]

Oh WinstonWolf, you sound just like my Grandfather... and how right you are, in my case anyway!


So Jase, did you ever put down your Sony Playstation or Nintendo thingamejig enough to learn a few manual skills from your olde Grand Dad?


I thought though that the point JaseH made, and I echoed was that we were raised during the time of the "recession we had to have", and therefore have learnt to appreciate the value of money. Having seen first hand my parents struggle, I have been influenced by this, and therefore have sought to build a secure future for my family and I.

And the point I made back Jase, that like your grand dad, an appreciation for money would lead to you fixing things or doing stuff yourself, rather then paying someone else to do it.

I know a lot of people who laugh at oldies who stick to a budget and are very frugal at the shops. But that's how one gets to own their own house on an average income.


Now, back to your points. I couldn't hammer a nail in straight if you paid me. I went to uni, (thanks bb mum and dad) and was not shown manual skills by my own father. (Because he was too busy working 12 hours a day to keep us afloat!).

I accept that. But I also notice a lot of BBs do the long hours and then don't watch the money going out. So they don't end up better financially.


How I wish I did have them now - they would come in extremely handy when something goes wrong around the house. As it now stands I have to call for help from tradies on most things.

Never too late to learn Jason. Get into it. You'll get a great sense of satisfaction and power from knowing how to do a lot of manual stuff yourself. Besides, then you will have something to teach your sprogs .... apart from type and do Sony Playstation


I can type fast though - does that count as a manual skill!! (Lol).

Does it pay as well as a plumber, builder, or brickie's labourer?


If there is any consolation for you, I did just finish paying my Hecs debt off last year. This system was introduced during my first year of Uni!


Hmmmm....isn't the idea to pay off non deductible and higher interest debt first????



Regards Jason.

............

 

[jingo]

Enjoyed your response WinstonWolfe. I'm Jason by the way, not Jase.

So Jase, (sic, Jason) did you ever put down your Sony Playstation or Nintendo thingamejig enough to learn a few manual skills from your olde Grand Dad?

Never played Sony or Playstation. But am a musician so play the piano. (Spent hours doing that, and use it for my profession now). But could have spent some time at Pop's learning some skills. He was a very very good tradesman actually, and I could have learnt a great deal from him.


And the point I made back Jase, (sic, Jason) that like your grand dad, an appreciation for money would lead to you fixing things or doing stuff yourself, rather then paying someone else to do it.

Yes, I thought so, I just didn't mention that in my reply. Very good point.

I know a lot of people who laugh at oldies who stick to a budget and are very frugal at the shops. But that's how one gets to own their own house on an average income.

Agree entirely, and I never laugh at oldies, I think so many excellent principles to do with money management and many aspects of life (including core values) come from as you say "oldies".


Now, back to your points. I couldn't hammer a nail in straight if you paid me. I went to uni, (thanks bb mum and dad) and was not shown manual skills by my own father. (Because he was too busy working 12 hours a day to keep us afloat!).

I accept that. But I also notice a lot of BBs do the long hours and then don't watch the money going out. So they don't end up better financially. Yeah, true.


How I wish I did have them now - they would come in extremely handy when something goes wrong around the house. As it now stands I have to call for help from tradies on most things.

Never too late to learn Jason. Get into it. You'll get a great sense of satisfaction and power from knowing how to do a lot of manual stuff yourself. Besides, then you will have something to teach your sprogs .... apart from type and do Sony Playstation (Play the piano!!)

Yeah, never too late to learn, and I'm not that old.


I can type fast though - does that count as a manual skill!! (Lol).

Does it pay as well as a plumber, builder, or brickie's labourer?

No, but it is really handy in my work now, and also during my uni years. Could really whip up an essay in no time!!


If there is any consolation for you, I did just finish paying my Hecs debt off last year. This system was introduced during my first year of Uni!


Hmmmm....isn't the idea to pay off non deductible and higher interest debt first????

Yep, I took my time paying the debt. Unfortunately with this one it is paid according to how much you earn each year, and a certain percentage of your income is put aside each year to pay the debt. Mind you it was a very good deal I rekon - the loan was at a very low interest rate and was only adjusted annually in line with inflation.



Regards Jason.

 

[anguang01]

Hi All,

I thought i post my 2cents as well.

I'm 24 this year and i just settled my 2nd IP last week! Yee Haa!

Bought my first one in July last year up in Cairns for 145k and last week also in Cairns for 200k!

I finished school in 2000 with a Bachelor Degree in Business and Marketing, it was a 4 years course but i did it in 3 years!! summer school every years!

I'm currently working full time and doing my MBA full time, i go to school after work from monday to thursday, hoping i can get better jobs! and i hate those ppl who dont have a degree and sweet talk their way into life..

I been working in finance since i finished school, and have been saving real hard for 3 years. It was not easy as all my friends are spending their money buying beers, holidays, girls and very nice clothings.

I have not told any of my friends that i have 2 ips worrying that they might copy me as they always do. sometime i do feel like i'm very selfish not sharing my dream but then again its their life why should i tell them what to do.

I have been with my gf for 7 years, she contribute alot to our investment. ( i know some of you do not agree buy ips with gf/fiance/wife but in my situation i needed her contribute in order to reliase my dream sooner)

I really hope i will be the lucky one like you guys in the future, as i have given up so much of my life!! i missed so many parties and fun stuff for a better life later.

I am currently saving to buy my own property to live in bcos i'm sick of my rent constantly increasing. I live in sydney by the way, lower north shore, nice area but i realise i cannot never afford to buy here.

I have looked at an area i quite like which is easten suburb Roseberry, anyone know that area? the only problem during my research is properties there doesnt increase that much, e.g a 2 bedrooms unit was bought for 300k 7 years ago and now only worth 375k! hasnt increase that much in 7 years so i'm a bit concern!

Some might argue why not Western suburb, while my reason is not that i dont like the area or what not, its because the crime rate over there are much higher than other areas! if you drive down western surburb you can feel like uneasiness and every houses or units there have those prison bar!!

i really hope i'm doing the right things because i can see myself living off super when i retired!!

 

[JoannaK]

hi anguang01,

big congratulations to you on the decisions you've made; certainly sounds like you've got a good head on your shoulders!

nothing wrong with buying properties with a partner, even at such a young age, just as long as your exit strategy is arranged now while you're friends as it's difficult to arrange when you're enemies (of course, not suggesting that that is what will happen - but better to be safe than sorry).

try looking at the St George and Sutherland Shire as well as part of your research....lovely pockets that are quite affordable...

good luck with the ppor search.

 

[XBenX]

I have not told any of my friends that i have 2 ips worrying that they might copy me as they always do.

Hrmmmmm ok.

 

[jaimeandrenee]

just a thought.............

In response to anguangs post I don't understand why you slag people that have not gone to university to get a degree, and what difference does it make to those hard working people out there that have achieved financial independence without a few digits behind their name. Afterall i thought this is a property investment website.

 

[dags]

the only crisis I can see here is the length of this freakin thread!

 

[young_gun]

The crisis is that the younger generation think they can have everything they want when they want it and on their terms.

Well sorry to say, all you youngun's...it does not work that way!!!

If you grew up in a suburb that now has a median house price of $800,000 does not mean you now have to buy your first home in that suburb.

How about a unit? Substantially lower entry costs...

How about a different suburb? Again, very possiblly lower entry costs.

For goodness sake...units in my area of sydney, which is a lovely area, are around $350k...you can't tell me that in this day and age for someone that is working that this is unaffordable.

Get a grip all you young ones and learn to start at the bottom and work your way up, just like everyone else!

I hate to break it to you older generations but I think in some cases you have yourself to blaim, for your children not being good with their money or having a drive to own their own house. I am about to turn 20 I am looking at buying my second house at the moment, I have come from a well off background (private schools ect) and I have found that all of my mates and people I know who have been given everything from their parents tend not to work at a young age (why would they when they have no need), because they dont work at a young age they never learn to save as they just spend everything. As a result they never develop critical skills. As just incase your wondering my parents always made me work to earn money.

Hi All,

I thought i post my 2cents as well.

I'm 24 this year and i just settled my 2nd IP last week! Yee Haa!

Bought my first one in July last year up in Cairns for 145k and last week also in Cairns for 200k!

I finished school in 2000 with a Bachelor Degree in Business and Marketing, it was a 4 years course but i did it in 3 years!! summer school every years!

I'm currently working full time and doing my MBA full time, i go to school after work from monday to thursday, hoping i can get better jobs! and i hate those ppl who dont have a degree and sweet talk their way into life..

I been working in finance since i finished school, and have been saving real hard for 3 years. It was not easy as all my friends are spending their money buying beers, holidays, girls and very nice clothings.

I have not told any of my friends that i have 2 ips worrying that they might copy me as they always do. sometime i do feel like i'm very selfish not sharing my dream but then again its their life why should i tell them what to do.

I have been with my gf for 7 years, she contribute alot to our investment. ( i know some of you do not agree buy ips with gf/fiance/wife but in my situation i needed her contribute in order to reliase my dream sooner)

I really hope i will be the lucky one like you guys in the future, as i have given up so much of my life!! i missed so many parties and fun stuff for a better life later.

I am currently saving to buy my own property to live in bcos i'm sick of my rent constantly increasing. I live in sydney by the way, lower north shore, nice area but i realise i cannot never afford to buy here.

I have looked at an area i quite like which is easten suburb Roseberry, anyone know that area? the only problem during my research is properties there doesnt increase that much, e.g a 2 bedrooms unit was bought for 300k 7 years ago and now only worth 375k! hasnt increase that much in 7 years so i'm a bit concern!

Some might argue why not Western suburb, while my reason is not that i dont like the area or what not, its because the crime rate over there are much higher than other areas! if you drive down western surburb you can feel like uneasiness and every houses or units there have those prison bar!!

i really hope i'm doing the right things because i can see myself living off super when i retired!!

Mate , I work in finance to as an analyst I did not go to university, let me tell you this just because you went to university doesnt make you any better than anyone else. It is actually harder for someone who doesnt go to university to get a good job but I worked myself up and after 2 years of leaving school managed to get a junior position as an analyst for an investment bank.

You say people who dont go to uni "sweet talk" their way into good positions, what bit of proof do you have that you are any better than anyone else just because you went to university. The dedictated and hardworking people who always stive for the best will always find ways to get into a position because at the end of the day its not what you learn at uni that counts its your attitude and the way you aproach your job that make you successful and not some writting on a peice of paper.

 

[Bargain Hunter]

You say people who dont go to uni "sweet talk" their way into good positions, what bit of proof do you have that you are any better than anyone else just because you went to university. The dedictated and hardworking people who always stive for the best will always find ways to get into a position because at the end of the day its not what you learn at uni that counts its your attitude and the way you aproach your job that make you successful and not some writting on a peice of paper.

Young_Gun,

Finished school at the end of year 10, did an apprenticeship, became a tradie, did a post trade course, sat on the tools, tried my hand at business, failed several times, lost the house, went back to being a tradie, stuffed my ankle, got a break, got a degree, got the job...

Life experience came first and then the degree. Could do the job without the degree, could only get the job with the piece of paper. I have meet plenty of people with bits of paper that do not have a clue.

Unfortunately this appears to be the way of the world.

Regards

Andrew

 

[Jase H]

i hate those ppl who dont have a degree and sweet talk their way into life..

Mate,

I'm sure my wife won't be offended that you hate her becuase she has never met you. But you might want to know the following

Me = Degree = 64K per year.
Wife = No Degree = 120 k per year.

Me = HECS debt
Wife= No HECS debt

There is a thing i like to call 'financial efficiency of education'

Yeah u guessed it my wife beat me hands down in this race.


Jase

 

[jingo]

Mate,

I'm sure my wife won't be offended that you hate her becuase she has never met you. But you might want to know the following

Me = Degree = 64K per year.
Wife = No Degree = 120 k per year.

Me = HECS debt
Wife= No HECS debt

There is a thing i like to call 'financial efficiency of education'

Yeah u guessed it my wife beat me hands down in this race.



Jase

Sounds like our situation. Almost exactly!!!

 

[alexlee]

Posting from Toronto.....

I finished school in 2000 with a Bachelor Degree in Business and Marketing, it was a 4 years course but i did it in 3 years!! summer school every years!

I'm currently working full time and doing my MBA full time, i go to school after work from monday to thursday, hoping i can get better jobs! and i hate those ppl who dont have a degree and sweet talk their way into life..

Great job for achieving your degree sooner than most and going for your MBA, but if education was the sole measure of success, university professors and researchers would rule the world. That’s certainly NOT how it works. In this world it’s about SELLING something. An idea. A widget. A service. Degrees certainly teach you nothing about selling stuff! Look at supposedly degree-intensive fields such as law, engineering, medicine, accounting. Are the top people necessarily the ones most knowledgeable about their fields? Generally, no. They’re usually people who are best as selling to clients, managing teams, etc. Sweet talking is THE best skill you can possibly have. I would trade my degree in today for the ability to sell.

Anguang, I also grew up in the Asian ‘academic qualifications are paramount’ culture. Got sucked into the 'get a professional degree no matter what' thing, and I did. I didn’t realize how the world really worked until I was about 20. I don't really regret what I did, but since then, I've been playing the system by identifying how it REALLY works (get the qualifications people actually care about, realise that my highly educated colleagues know dip about investment, etc). Anguang, you obviously also realize this, or you wouldn’t be investing (a field that certainly doesn’t care about degrees).

I have not told any of my friends that i have 2 ips worrying that they might copy me as they always do. sometime i do feel like i'm very selfish not sharing my dream but then again its their life why should i tell them what to do.

If your friends will belittle your dreams or tell you why it’s not a good idea to invest in property, by all means don’t tell them. If they’ll copy you and then blame you if it doesn’t work out, don’t tell them. But for me, I'm generally starved for friends to talk investments with. I would love it if more of my friends invested so that we could share information! Investing is lonely enough without friends to do it with (not literally, of course: I’m not partnering in terms of ownership).

I really hope i will be the lucky one like you guys in the future, as i have given up so much of my life!! i missed so many parties and fun stuff for a better life later.

I am currently saving to buy my own property to live in bcos i'm sick of my rent constantly increasing. I live in sydney by the way, lower north shore, nice area but i realise i cannot never afford to buy here.

Luck is only a part of it, as I’m sure you know. Even on a high salary you have to sacrifice a lot to invest. I can honestly tell you after a few years, every sacrifice is worth it. The price of a stable and much more confident future in your 30's is just a few hung over mornings and a few nights of vomiting. No contest.

You do know that Sydney rents are still about the lowest they’ve ever been relative to prices, right? Renting is STILL cheaper. The lower north shore is one of the better places to live in Sydney, and if you’re 24 and living there and finding the rents high, maybe you’re expecting too much. For example, why not get a unit further west? The West isn't necessarily full of monsters (ok, try Inner West to start). BTW I grew up on the North Shore so I understand what you're saying, but I don't agree with it.

On the other hand, don’t think you’ll never be able to afford to buy in the lower north shore. Aim high. Keep investing as you have and soon you can afford whatever you want.

i really hope i'm doing the right things because i can see myself living off super when i retired!!

At your age, with your (good) attitude and investment future, if you have to wait until you’re 60 (minimum retirement age to get money from super free) then something is SERIOUSLY wrong. My suggestion (and what I’m doing): forget super. Keep money outside super. Gear aggressively (but not stupidly) into good assets. You’re going to have more money than you can imagine by the time you’re 40-50.
Alex

 

[1974Angela]

Totally agree with the other 30-somethings here - there is a huge difference in attitude and ambition between gen X and gen Y.
I would hate to be considered in the same category as the Gen Ys I know!
A lot of us Xers didnt even have computers or nintendos so I cant understand where that correlation comes from WinstonWolfe! And as far as many of us being "toolbox challenged" maybe a lot of that comes from your generation - who had the highest divorce rates, with many of us being raised just by mum while the fathers were never seen again!

 

[WinstonWolfe]

Totally agree with the other 30-somethings here - there is a huge difference in attitude and ambition between gen X and gen Y.
I would hate to be considered in the same category as the Gen Ys I know!
A lot of us Xers didnt even have computers or nintendos so I cant understand where that correlation comes from WinstonWolfe!

Most of you did do computer games Angela. Google the history of console sales and the popularity of gaming. And excuse me for interrupting your anecdote.

And as far as many of us being "toolbox challenged" maybe a lot of that comes from your generation - who had the highest divorce rates, with many of us being raised just by mum while the fathers were never seen again!

yes, there's a lot of single mums who think they and 'their kids' can't be happy anywhere else then on Qld's Sunshine and Gold Coasts.
while there's a lot of divorced guys working 12 hour shifts in small remote underserviced mining towns....
go figure.....

baby boomers have a high divorce rate Angela, sure. but Gen X beats them hands down. not only did the divorce rate per 1000 increase in the mid 1990s, but it increased on the back of an ever declining marriage rate. You see, Gen X can't commit nor stay committed. Seems their single bb mums have trained them well to accept nothing less than the perfect partner, after squandering their money in their 20s indulging in 'it's all about me' time.

...........

 

[blackjack]

I’ve haunted these forums for a couple of years - leeching information, advice & comfort from the many & varied posts.

Having read this thread through, I find myself posting my own reply (almost completely unrelated to property investment) in pure amazement at the sweeping generalizations in what is fast becoming a generation war!

It seems I’m guilty of so many sins, I don’t know quite where to start…

Generation X – check
Just getting comfortable with my age… probably best not to go anywhere with this.

Education – unfinished high school but later in life BA student… HECS debt – check
Yes.. typing is my profession! I get paid as much as many of the fine folk I work with who have been in their trade for many years, based purely on my typing. I’m a PA and love it… so that’s a good thing, right?! (the BA was a mid-life crisis thing – history & philosophy for goodness sake. Let’s not compare qualifications : )

Computer games – check (LFG 70 mage Kara /w ; )
Online gaming is possibly the cheapest form of entertainment around. Just as many folk troll various forums () or stare at a television for hours on end, I chat, quest & kill 'stuff' with my spare moments – each to their own.

Single parent – check
Of a 16 year old male, somewhat resembling the human species. If I can relate to nothing else in this thread, it’s the ‘expectations’ those evil Y-ers have. I’ve been asked whether he gets my ‘stuff’ when I die!!! Told that he has no intentions of moving out until he’s around 24. Had him suggest that I should upgrade my car so as not to impede on his image while he’s racking up the hours on his L plates. … and more hideousness!! By my calculations (or his actually), I have about another 8 years to drum the concept of independence into him, devise new ways to make him want to leave his mummy & create even more ways to publicly embarrass him for my personal amusement. Having a ball!! : D
(also, never actually married so I don’t even qualify for the divorce stats!)

Investor (1 IP & 1 PPOR) – check
By chance as much as anything else… but I had to put something property related on an investment forum.

Renovator (specializing in destruction!) – check
I’m not sure what the opposite of ‘renovating’ is (the art of alteration for betterment), but de-construction is what I’m best at it seems. I work in a trade-type workplace & so am fortunate enough to have access to an array of tools for my renos. Nothing like a 5’4” ‘lady’, armed with a saber saw and jack hammer, leaving work for a weekend of ‘housework’.

Anyway, rambling away. Just wanted to remind you all that we are all sorts.

 

[WinstonWolfe]

Having read this thread through, I find myself posting my own reply (almost completely unrelated to property investment) in pure amazement at the sweeping generalizations in what is fast becoming a generation war!

Hi BlackJackie

Don't mind me. I can express myself affirmatively without declaring generational war...

Anyway, I don't see it as generational war. It is more a war of conflict of perspective and perception, of what is important and what isn't. what should be prioritized and the discipline and will to prioritize it.


So BJ, you talk about your renos as if your not sharing the experience with your 16yo.

 

[blackjack]

oh, I'm sharing the experience! A sheet for a bathroom door for near on a year... a kitchen floor one has to negotiate to get to the sink without twisting an ankle and the fine craft of dodging random falling plaster from a semi renovated lathe & plaster ceiling...

If I teach him nothing else, it'll be self-defence!

(if you seriously have a way to cause a teenager to experience a renovation with you, rather than because of you, I'm all ears!!)