Significant Trees. Anyone have problems with this one?

[Pushka]

Hey SS'ers

We have a significant tree on our PPOR. It is a lilly pilly, around 20 metres, and is significant because it measures >2metres around the base. Why on earth it was planted there beggars belief.

To do anything with it that impacts on its appearance, we need council approval to do so. We are unlikely to get Council approval as it is around 4 metres from the street and removal/trim will impact hugely on the street front. Nevertheless we will apply because the neighbour has indicated it is impacting on her and has blocked her drains etc etc.

Hers is a newish place, say 10 years old and a duplex. The Council suggest the developer should have ensured the tree roots were unable to get into the new pvc pipes that should have been installed and I tend to agree with that. But our soil is very reactive clay, so the ground is cracking up thanks to the drought, so that could have cracked the pipes and the roots go in. Also, it is a female lilly pilly and as the branches overhang her property they drop onto the roof. We know they do because we can hear them.

We are happy to trim the tree but to solve her problems would be a major $$$$ job, and I dont think the council will give us approval to do so anyway. But we are liable for damage if any occurs. What the hell are people supposed to do......

We are getting an arborist in to determine whether the tree is healthy or not - they are pro tree so their stand is to preserve not take away. Has anyone else had these kinds of issues?

 

[Dazz]

Hi Pushka,

We had a "significant tree" noted on both the Council register and our title deed. The prop. is in an old area and the deed is an old one.

It was in the backyard. About 5 years ago...it just disappeared.

We left on a Friday arvo and it was there, when we arrived back Sunday arvo it was gone. Shebang - no more tree !!! Well I'll be a monkeys uncle.

Those tree fairies must be big - cos they work really fast and leave hardly any trace.

Checked the modern Landsgate title deed and guess what - the Significant tree nonsense has been deleted. Joy.


IMO, it's a complete farce, with little ol ladies with blue rinse hair and shuffling Julius Marlows who wish to impose their values and opinions and standards on other property owner such that they conform.

I thought one of the advantages of owning your own home was to stop other people pushing you around. Then you've got the rabid greenies who love everything and want everything to just grow and grow and grow, regardless of how out of hand it becomes. As long as some poor other sucker pays to manage the mess.

 

[s_t]

Another possible option (and I'm not saying to do it!) - what are the possible penalties for removing such a tree? Might be cheaper..... Alternatively, it might just happen to die slowly of 'unknown' causes

 

[jebro]

Hi Pushka,
We are also the proud owners of a significant tree on a block in Brisbane. This one is a jacaranda.
Having two of these little beauties in our own back yard we were somewhat taken aback to be told you can't touch that tree.
So now waiting (a long time) for the Council to come back to say whether they would let us develop the block or not. Hoping they take into consideration that it is damaging the retaining wall abutting the neighbour's fence.
This tree has got to its present size out of pure neglect on the part of the previous owners who have allowed a veritable jungle to grow there over a prolonged amount of time. So, their neglect now has major impact on what can or cannot be built on the property.

Commiserations,

jebro

 

[lizzie]

drill a small hole and introduce some whiteants then get an infestation check ... salt the ground around the roots and water well (several bags of pool salt would suffice) ...

oh, there are so many natural causes that can kill off a tree without a chemical in sight.

i like daz's tree fairy idea but might be a bit obvious in the front yard.

 

[Pushka]

He he, I was thinking some injectable poison at the base! The penalty for doing something to significant trees is around $30,000 to $120,000 if a developer. And our council would be one to enforce it; they even have significant trees placed in their development plan.

I asked the legal services commission what would happen to our legal obligations if the council refused even to allow us to trim it, and damage occurred to the next door neighbours, and they said the only thing we can do is document EVERYTHING.
I asked the Council what I should do in the same case, and they said contact the legal services commission. sigh. Council's vision is to protect and not destroy; the property next door would have to have been developed so as to protect our tree (we weren't around then).

If the neighbour decided to cut the roots and the tree died, then we could sue them! Hmm, now there's the solution!!!!!!!!!!! The tree is right next to her front porch, so if she does anything to them........Maybe I might just suggest she does that

 

[Pushka]

Update: we may be able to remove it (legally!) because the tree surgeon says it is unstable - while it comes from one base, there are three main branches at ground level which makes it liable to split. If it does this, then two houses will get wiped out!
Cost of removal - $850 so much less than I was thinking. Friends of ours were quoted $3000 several years ago to remove a pine tree, but maybe the access was the issue there.

He also said trimming it would do nothing to solve any of the problems, so it has to be removed.

OK, next step, get the arborist to provide the report! Unfortunately arborists are pro-trees. Oh well, here's hoping. That will cost around $400, then the Council application and on we go.

 

[Aimjoy]

All those trees ultimately get sick and die of chainsawitis

In a past life as a REA we worked with a well-known property developer who was so unlucky with fires. Every damn place he bought which had an old heritage listed or significant residence (read old dump) on it, caught fire - mostly on week-ends and mostly at 2:00 or 3:00am when council workers are off....well I'll be....

 

[wylie]

Friend of ours took off the trees that would have been an issue BEFORE the council even knew he wanted to subdivide.

However, you cannot do that, as this is already a "known" factor.

There was also a report in the paper a few years ago about the council drawing a line from the city and working backwards along the "view line" to see who may have "copper nailed" a couple of local tall trees. I would be very careful in doing anything dodgy. I never heard what happened, but council were certainly having a good sniff about. (Could they ever prove anything?)

And a mother from kindy (the child went to kindy, not the mother ) told me the story on her back deck of how they had asked the lady between them and the city view if they could trim her trees (not hers, but on her footpath, so not her trees anyway). She kicked up a stink, so they let it go. Several months later, they minded her cat while she was on holidays and took the opportunity of giving the trees a little trim.

Neighbour came back with a gift for the cat-sitting, and while sitting on their deck having a cuppa, the three year old mentioned about "when daddy got his ladder and gave your tree a haircut". Nothing was said but apparently, there was a distinct chill in the air.

Moral of the story - NEVER tell little children when you DO do something dodgy

 

[neaka]

We received a letter from our elderly neighbour complaining about 2 of our trees. One a leopard tree which we love but is dropping its pods on her gutter and on her footpath, the other, a campheloral (a noxious weed) whos roots were tearing up her footpath.
We immediately had the leopard trees branches chopped on her side costing us $400 and had the campheloral removed at a cost of $1100.

She is still not happy and wants the leopard tree removed. Does anyone know if we are legally obliged to keep having the branches removed to avoid having to remove it, simply because of falling pods?
Also, by the sounds of it we may not be allowed to remove the leopard tree anyway?
I may be in the wrong thread but what are our legal obligations to neighbours?

 

[neaka]

Update:
Cost of removal - $850 so much less than I was thinking. Friends of ours were quoted $3000 several years ago to remove a pine tree, but maybe the access was the issue there.

Wow Pushka, $850 for a 20m tree is a great price! As ive said above we just paid $1100 for a 15m high 1m round campheloral!!!

i suppose it pays to get lots of quotes!

 

[wylie]

Hi Neaka.

My understanding is that your neighbour is within his or her rights to cut the branches overhanging his or her yard, and is supposed to throw them back over into your yard (this part has always seemed silly to me, like an insult - here are your branches back??).

We have a beautiful Pride of India tree in our neighbour's yard overhanging our pool. Even though we have a pergola over the pool with shade cloth the leaves and purple flowers blow into it anyway. We simply get up on the pergola and cut it back to our fenceline. That is all we are legally allowed to do, and since we had a (sort of) falling out with the neighbour, we would not ask them to remove it, because they probably would not do it anyway, just to spite us.

We also have lilly pilly or similar trees in another neighbour's yard near the pool and the tiny, tiny almost hair-like stuff that comes off that clogs up the surface of the pool, only for a few weeks each year. We get on very well with these neighbours, and would not ask them to do anything either. We just clean the pool more regularly at certain times of the year.

I think if you have trimmed your own tree, I would leave it at that. We have lived with leopard trees and falling nuts, and it is just a price you pay to be surrounded by trees. Tell her to "get over it"

 

[Ausprop]

In a past life as a REA we worked with a well-known property developer who was so unlucky with fires. Every damn place he bought which had an old heritage listed or significant residence (read old dump) on it, caught fire - mostly on week-ends and mostly at 2:00 or 3:00am when council workers are off....well I'll be....

a guy in a top perth suburb did somehting similar recently. heritage listed building on huge parcel of very valuable land. bulldozers rolled in saturday morning, security emplyed to keep irate residents away. come monday morning a flat sandy block. council rings up... owner says "yes send the penalty to this address". The maximum limti for the $20k fine is now under review!

 

[Pushka]

Yes, I was amazed when I got the price for the tree removal, because friends of ours were also quoted over $3000 some years ago for pine tree removal. Maybe it is something about pine trees?

The laws regarding overhanging trees, in SA anyway, are quite bizarre. You are legally responsible for any damage that your overhanging tree does to another neighbour. They are allowed to cut it back to fenceline, but if by cutting it back the tree dies, then the neighbour that cuts it back can be sued by the tree's owner. Oh, and you shouldnt throw them back on the neighbours property because that is trespass. Go figure!

It gets even more complicated for siginficant trees. You remain liable for any damage even if the Council says you cant remove it. Your only hope is to retain all documentation if you get sued, which can be presented to Court.

OK, the aroborist has come and we are waiting his report. Apparently the tree could be removed because it has um, impacting bark (dont have the report yet!) which is not the right term but it means that the two main branches are actually pushing each other apart (at its base) as they grow, and therein lies the instability. This is the same tree that the koala sought refuge in this week not that the Council will ever know that!

We have a pool too; the huge eucalyptus from the neighbour is either shedding its bark (pre Christmas) shedding its leaves (post Christmas) or dropping its nuts (February - April) so basically the whole swim season it drops its rubbish. It grows so much on our side that if we cut it back there wouldnt be much left of it!

 

[ChrisBarras]

and is supposed to throw them back over into your yard (this part has always seemed silly to me, like an insult - here are your branches back??).

I think you will find this is an old wives tail, i checked with my council and after cutting you need to remove them yourself.

There was a court case in Melbourne about one or two months ago where Boroondara council took a home owner to court re pruning a tree, seems he pruned it so severe that the tree had to be removed $15K fine + $10K costs
http://www.boroondara.vic.gov.au/home/news#10699

I’ve also seen a developer just bulldoze about 20 gums trees so they could builf their home and then replant new gum tress along the fence line, I think he copped about a $2,000 fine this would have been 15 years ago

 

[MIZBUF]

In Mosman and North Sydney Councils in Sydney if a tree has been poisoned or cut back substantially they drape green plastic net covering over it all. Woolhara Council does this also I remember they did this in Point Piper Those pesky tree fairies tore it down again!Then they all post great big notices explaining all about the wilful damage etc.Dunno how many trees were sacrificed to manufacture the Notice boards and paper to lecture to us about their tree policies . Oh it is a mad old World in which we live.

 

[WinstonWolfe]

All those trees ultimately get sick and die of chainsawitis

In a past life as a REA we worked with a well-known property developer who was so unlucky with fires. Every damn place he bought which had an old heritage listed or significant residence (read old dump) on it, caught fire - mostly on week-ends and mostly at 2:00 or 3:00am when council workers are off....well I'll be....

I know a developer who paid some local layabouts to start hanging around a pre war house on one of his sites. make sure they get seen by lots of people..... skateboarding in the driveway....swearing loudly on late night visits....bit of graffiti on the walls.....

then...7 weeks later....kapoof...

the whole heritage listing and demolition control thing in Brisbane is a toss ..... current and future needs will always outweigh yesterday's. and like trees, buildings eventually fall down...

 

[Dazz]

a guy in a top perth suburb did somehting similar recently. heritage listed building on huge parcel of very valuable land. bulldozers rolled in saturday morning, security emplyed to keep irate residents away. come monday morning a flat sandy block. council rings up... owner says "yes send the penalty to this address". The maximum limti for the $20k fine is now under review!

Took great interest in this one John.

It was a well known Doctor, and the max limit was 50K he copped. He mentioned it was just another in a long list of costs necessary to develop the block. 50K was a drop in the bucket compared to the dirt value. Agreed, all the council and tree hand wringers got together and realised the max. penalties were not a serious deterrent.

Of course, when he goes to put his development application into the same council for Approval - well, that might be when he comes up against some real resistance.