Silly Decision Three Years Ago. Cut Losses?

Hi everyone,

I joined the forum because I don't know where to go for advice. I'm hoping some of you money minded people can give me a starting off point? I'd be very grateful.

Almost three years ago, my partner and I were alerted to the fact that you could get no-deposit home loans, and decided that we should buy, rather than rent. We went with St. George, and fixed our rate at 8.44% (rates were on the rise and our broker advised us to lock...). We also had to pay 1% on top of this to make up for mortgage insurance. So our interest rate has been 9.44% for this time (great move, I know).

We purchased a property for $337,000.

I phoned St. George today to talk to them about what will happen in February when our fixed period expired. I told them that I wanted to stay with them, but move to a different loan product. Our payout figure as of today is $334,132 (including break costs for breaking fixed rate terms...without those figures it's $328,139).

They told me that switching products after the fixed period was impossible because there were two conditions that needed to be met before we could switch products:

a) That we have held the loan for three years (done).
b) That we have atleast 20% equity in the property.

Based on the fact that we have been paying our fixed payments and borrowed the full amount of the purchase price, it's basically impossible for us to have that much equity. This condition is not in any of the loan documentation I have (and I've been through it with a fine-toothed comb).

I think we probably have around 5% equity - if that. Meaning we're stuck with this high-interest loan product for goodness-knows how long.

St. George say the best they can do in February is 8.59%, and that it is completely impossible for them to switch our loan.

Other banks probably won't touch us either due to the lack of equity.

Should we just sell, cut our massive losses and start again in a couple of years, or slog on? I worked out that we will have paid $102,000 on the property over three years for nothing.

PLEASE don't tell me about what a bad decision we made three years ago, believe me, I know this.

I'm just looking for advice as to where I might be able to go from here?

Thank you so much in advance :)

Sarah.
 
Hi everyone,

I joined the forum because I don't know where to go for advice. I'm hoping some of you money minded people can give me a starting off point? I'd be very grateful.

Almost three years ago, my partner and I were alerted to the fact that you could get no-deposit home loans, and decided that we should buy, rather than rent. We went with St. George, and fixed our rate at 8.44% (rates were on the rise and our broker advised us to lock...). We also had to pay 1% on top of this to make up for mortgage insurance. So our interest rate has been 9.44% for this time (great move, I know).

We purchased a property for $337,000.

I phoned St. George today to talk to them about what will happen in February when our fixed period expired. I told them that I wanted to stay with them, but move to a different loan product. Our payout figure as of today is $334,132 (including break costs for breaking fixed rate terms...without those figures it's $328,139).

They told me that switching products after the fixed period was impossible because there were two conditions that needed to be met before we could switch products:

a) That we have held the loan for three years (done).
b) That we have atleast 20% equity in the property.

Based on the fact that we have been paying our fixed payments and borrowed the full amount of the purchase price, it's basically impossible for us to have that much equity. This condition is not in any of the loan documentation I have (and I've been through it with a fine-toothed comb).

I think we probably have around 5% equity - if that. Meaning we're stuck with this high-interest loan product for goodness-knows how long.

St. George say the best they can do in February is 8.59%, and that it is completely impossible for them to switch our loan.

Other banks probably won't touch us either due to the lack of equity.

Should we just sell, cut our massive losses and start again in a couple of years, or slog on? I worked out that we will have paid $102,000 on the property over three years for nothing.

PLEASE don't tell me about what a bad decision we made three years ago, believe me, I know this.

I'm just looking for advice as to where I might be able to go from here?

Thank you so much in advance :)

Sarah.

Have no much info though, this isn't in any way advise but, just a comment :)
It all will come down to whether or not you believe that the property will grow in the future. If so by how much. This will indicate if it make sense to hold it or not. In case it makes sense, in order to reduce the negativity and inefficiency of this loan, you may consider renting that property out and looking for a property to rent yourself. While the property is rented, the TAX man will assist you in paying the loan and the overheads associated with the house. The trick is that the place you rent should have a lower rent than your current mortgage repayments and/or provide you with a lot of joy and satisfaction :D
Cheers!
 
Hi guys,

Thanks for the replies so far :)

I should have added in the first post that the property IS being rented out.

This does help by returning us about $6000 p/a in tax.

However, our financial circumstances have changed and we were really relying on a decent interest rate drop in February, which it appears won't happen.

I have looked through our loan contract and these two stipulations are not mentioned at ALL - I don't know where they've come from.

The bank basically said to me that the only way I would get a lower rate than what they'd offer me is to switch banks - but they know I can't because we have less than 5% equity and no-one will lend more than 95% of the property value.

We just feel stuck. We ARE stuck. It's just a bit of a slap in the face to be paying 9.44% for three years without complaint (it was our decision and all) then to be hit with two new stipulations on switching products AND being offered ANOTHER high interest rate and being told it's the ONLY option.

Is it worth holding on to the property with these sorts of interest rates?

I just don't know what to do. :(
 
I have similar situations with equally joyous banks such as macquarie and mortgage ezy... if you are on a high marginal rate then you could probably justfiy holding 1 property. Given the uncertain out look for property and your high repayment levels, if the tax breaks arent really helping yu then I think you have 2 choices:

1) lift your income to improve your overall cashflow and tax benefits

otherwise

2) sell
 
Go speak to a mortgage broker now.
This will tell you whether to move lenders or ride it out until your property gains equity.
The last thing I would do is sell.

Sometimes 3 years is too short a time period.Anyone paying a I/P mortgage knows, it is usually 10 years before you make a dent in the balance.
 
Hi Sarah,

You have paid a total interest of $95,438 which is $337,000 x 9.44% x 3 years the balance you have paid comes off the amount you borrowed and this is your equity.

If you borrowed $337,000 for the property and your payout figure is $328,139then you have $8,861 in equity.

You may also have some additional equity if your house has increased in value over the three years you have owned it. If you property has increased by 3% per year you would have an additional $30,330 in equity, (capital gains). Apart from somewhere to live this is why we hold property.

If you think it has increased then , I would be asking St George if they would do a free valuation to confirm this, it may get you closer to the 20% equity they require to give you a new loan.

Condition b) That you have at least 20% equity in the property would be a Bank requirement before they gave you a new loan possibly due to the GFC and not a condition of your existing loan I suspect.

All is not as bad as seems, if you had been paying say 7% interset for the last three years you would have paid $337,000 x 7% x 3 years = $70,770 dollars in interest.

$337,000 x 9.44% x 3 years = $95,438
$337,000 x 7.00% x 3 years = $70,770
Additional interest paid = $24,668

So in effect you have paid an additional $24,668 in interest over the three years. Not good but it's not $102,000 for nothing as you put it.


I would do the following:
a) wait until your fixed term finishes with St George dont pay the $5,993 in break fees, the extra intrest you will pay until Feb will only be about $1980.
b) Talk to an agent to get an idea what your house is now worth.
c) Talk to St George re a free valuation with a view to changing to a better product.
d) If you are happy with the house and can afford the repayments, stick it out as it will be harder for you to sell and start again in the future.
e) chalk it up as an expensive learning experience and move forward.

Hope all this makes sense.
All my figures are approximate and based on what you posted.
Regards DCP

PS.What do you think the current value of the property is?
 
3) Wrap it.

Seriously. It sounds like a prime candidate for selling on vendor finance. I just did this with a property that was quite cashflow negative and now it's cashflow positive.

true.
vendor finance can be great..especially if you are buying and set the interest rate (like us)
 
I think you could do worse than having a chat with Rolf on the forum here.

Hes a mortgage broker on the GC. And a very good one.
 
S83,

Personally i think it's great that you are discussing the issue that you have, none of us are born with the knowledge of how to do this investing thing.

Some good advice provided from DCP and Kathryn D, digest those replys and make some moves from their.
 
I have no idea what vendor finance is. Lol. Will look in to it!

We'd prefer NOT to sell, as my partner wants to move back there one day (it's in his dream location), but if that's what needs to happen, I guess that's what needs to happen.

I've been reluctant to see a mortgage broker because we were convinced to fix our rate, which has been an endless source of frustration, but we might need to do that too :(

DCP:

I'm not sure about the value of the property. It's a townhouse in a small complex of 10. We were happy when, 4 months ago, the identical townhouse two doors down was put on the market for $395,000.

However...it's still on the market, and price has dropped to $349,000. I'm gonna say my estimate would be $340k-$345k based on this. Meaning around....$3000 - $8000 in equity. Not much at all.

You say that the 20% equity thing may not be in the contract, and may only be placed because of the GFC...but if they lend NEW customers more than 80% of the property value, do they have the right to decline existing customers the same courtesy? That would be unfair :( Will have to call them again to double check.
 
yes it is hard to see whythe rate woul dbe so high...

Interest Rates
Home Loans
Rates as at 12-November-2010 (Subject to change without notice)

Introductory Home Loan Rates

1 Year Introductory Fixed Rate 6.84 % p.a.
1 Year Discount Variable Rate 6.73 % p.a.
Basic Home Loan

Variable 6.85 % p.a.
St George Negotiated Basic Home Loan

Variable Rate 6.76 % p.a.
Standard Variable Loan

Variable Rate 7.43 % p.a.
Portfolio Loan

Variable Rate 7.53 % p.a.
Fixed Rate Home Loans (including Portfolio Loan Fixed Rates)

1 Year 7.14 % p.a.
2 Years 7.34 % p.a.
3 Years 7.44 % p.a.
4 Years 7.74 % p.a.
5 Years 7.94 % p.a.
Low Doc Home Loan

Variable Rate 7.58 % p.a.
1 Year Fixed Rate 7.14 % p.a.
3 Year Fixed Rate 7.44 % p.a.
5 Year Fixed Rate 7.94 % p.a.
Low Doc Portfolio Loan

Variable Rate 7.68 % p.a.
1 Year Fixed Rate 7.14 % p.a.
3 Year Fixed Rate 7.44 % p.a.
5 Year Fixed Rate 7.94 % p.a.
St George Seniors Access Home Loan

Variable Rate 8.43 % p.a.
Super Fund Home Loan

Variable Rate 7.43 % p.a.
1 Year Fixed Rate 7.54 % p.a.
2 Year Fixed Rate 7.74 % p.a.
3 Year Fixed Rate 7.84 % p.a.
4 Year Fixed Rate 8.14 % p.a.
5 Year Fixed Rate 8.34 % p.a.
 
.

PLEASE don't tell me about what a bad decision we made three years ago, believe me, I know this.

Hi Sarah

I know its a "good" thing to berate one self for decisions madea while ago.

Here is my take after 10 + years of trying to help people come to grips with what "they have done" or " what they havent done".

3 years ago, we were in Pre GFC times, where bananas and fuel prices were driving our "whole" economy, and the RBA at the time was all gloom and doom about our runaway inflation..............and from that you could comfortably draw 10 % + var rates for a while...........

So your decision to fix at that time was as correct as all the super smarties on the board of the RBA at that time.............

ta
rolf
 
Hi everyone,

I joined the forum because I don't know where to go for advice. I'm hoping some of you money minded people can give me a starting off point? I'd be very grateful.

Almost three years ago, my partner and I were alerted to the fact that you could get no-deposit home loans, and decided that we should buy, rather than rent.


PLEASE don't tell me about what a bad decision we made three years ago, believe me, I know this.

Actually Sarah you made a decision to act three years ago using the knowledge you had at that time (no average person knew there was going to be a global financial crisis) so now you have gained some more knowledge and would like to rearrange your finances. Good onya.

I'm just looking for advice as to where I might be able to go from here?

An experience mortgage broker is will be able to tell you what options you have.

Thank you so much in advance :)

Sarah.

Congratualtions you are thinking and seeking possible solutions and answers to improve your situation.



Kind Regards
Sheryn
 
Vendor finance and wrapping etc isn't for everyone. Especially beginner, first time PPOR/ investors buyers that have been spooked by a wrong decision made 3 years ago.

In fact my opinion is wrapping is one of the less ethical strategies out there.

The best thing they can do - imo - is keep it vanilla, sort out their troubles and then maybe look at the these 'advanced' strategies at a later date. If at all.

They need the advice of a good broker.
 
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